Winter Driving with 2004 AWD

[Morwenna88]

So a couple of weeks ago I had my first experience driving my 2004 AWD on icy roads with all-weather tires. It wasn't fun. I was cautious and didn't get over-confident, but I still managed to fishtail like crazy. This car is about 500lbs lighter than my old FWD Taurus, and I had no problem handling it in the Winter with all weather tires. I can't afford snow tires so I was wondering if anyone with experience might recommend a good alternative for this car. I guess my options come down to sand bags or chains...

[SeattleJeremy]

What tires does the car have, and are they in good condition?
Was it fishtailing when accelerating, when braking, or both?
Where you able to keep the car under control or did it spin out?
Having traction to the rear wheels makes a big difference when accelerating. However, AWD doesn't help you stop.

[star_deceiver]

Tires.... Tires... Tires... Tires.... Tires!!!! Get the proper tires for the task! Why would you spend a couple thousand on a new car when you can get an awesome set of winters for less than $500... Even cheaper if you scour Kijiji or Craigslist!

I never had any problems with winter when I had my Vibe... And mine was only FWD.

[Salsa Guy]

Mine is a beast in the snow with all season tires. However I hate the ABS on these cars, it engages way to soon. Also they are not really AWD but 4WD so it won't drive the rear wheels until the front spin.

Please no discussion about what SAE calls AWD vs 4WD

OP: You can't drive on Icy Road unless you have studs or chains.

[kumquat]

You can't afford a set of snow tires, but you can afford another car?

[KITT222]

Also they are not really AWD but 4WD so it won't drive the rear wheels until the front spin.

Please no discussion about SAE calls AWD vs 4WD

Not fair! You can't call it one thing then dismiss us from responding But seriously, no semantics... To most of the people out there it makes no difference.


Tires tires tires... Craigslist for the cheap. I picked up a full set of former PT Cruiser alloy rims with pretty much new (12/32 tread = new is... 12/32) Firestone Winterforce tires. On my lowered FWD 04 they rocked the snow. These cars are full-human control, at least 03/04. (ABS is the exception). And tires are your only connection to the road.

[SeattleJeremy]

So glad my car doesn't have ABS, Traction control, and stability control. Most cars new before 2007 in the sub 25k price range don't have good systems.
However, the AWD cars have ABS as standard, so there isn't much Morwenna88 can do.

kumquat & star_deceiver,
Not everyone has the cash or credit available to purchase dedicated winter tires and wheels. I just looked at Tirerack the cheapest winter tires, mounted to their $65 steel wheels, is $656.00 plus shipping. On the other hand, this is why I asked about the tires first in my post above. If your tires are not in good condition, or, in general, not working the way you need them to, even if there is tread remaining, it's time for new ones.

[star_deceiver]

Plain and simple, it's not a design flaw in the car that's causing poor road traction. You're going to have to spend some cash and get decent rubber. That $656 is a decent price given the time of year... Craiglsist, you could probably scrounge up some decent rubber and rims for half that.

I remember the first time the goodyear rs/a's saw snow. Plenty of tread and absolutely no control. Budget yourself good tires for the season or slide around all winter.

[KITT222]

I forgot to mention the price of my Craigslist tires... I got them for $220. Check your Craigslist offerings. I run 195/65/15s, but the stock tires size for the Vibe is 205/55/16. It has a 5x100 bolt pattern, and a lot of VW and Subaru rims will fit it.

EDIT: Summer vs winter tire comparo. You're halfway there with the AWD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA#t=206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Salsa Guy]

Also they are not really AWD but 4WD so it won't drive the rear wheels until the front spin.

Please no discussion about what SAE calls AWD vs 4WD

Not fair! You can't call it one thing then dismiss us from responding But seriously, no semantics... To most of the people out there it makes no difference.

I did and I will . And you are kinda sorta right.

[Morwenna88]

You can't afford a set of snow tires, but you can afford another car?

Yep, I will be paying for this car for the next 3 years.

Tires.... Tires... Tires... Tires.... Tires!!!! Get the proper tires for the task! Why would you spend a couple thousand on a new car when you can get an awesome set of winters for less than $500... Even cheaper if you scour Kijiji or Craigslist!

No, not tires, hence why I made this post. I got a loan on the car, so basically those thousands of dollars are being spent over 3 years. I can't make payments on a new set of tires, see my problem? I guess I'll go for a sand bag or two in the back. If I still have problems, I'll get chains for bad days.

What tires does the car have, and are they in good condition?
Was it fishtailing when accelerating, when braking, or both?
Where you able to keep the car under control or did it spin out?
Having traction to the rear wheels makes a big difference when accelerating. However, AWD doesn't help you stop.

I have decent all weather tires. I was coasting into a turning lane and then braking. I was able to straighten it out and stop it before it got ugly. I know AWD doesn't help me stop, it helps me go.

[kumquat]

A sand bag isn't going to help you when you're spinning out into oncoming traffic.

Seriously, it's a major safety issue. Craigslist, used tire shops, whatever. Find yourself a set of winter tires.

[Morwenna88]

Okay, I'll keep a lookout on craigslist then. I should shop for 205/55/16?

[kumquat]

Okay, I'll keep a lookout on craigslist then. I should shop for 205/55/16?

17s would be fine too if they're mounted on wheels that fit.

I picked up a set of 4 Firestone Winterforce mounted on rims from a Matrix for $150 a couple months ago. 90% tread. Keep an eye out and pounce on anything good. You really, really want winter tires.

[Derf]

With winter well on the way, this topic sparked my curiosity. I have a 94 Taurus FWD and 2005 FWD Vibe. I have only driven a few winter miles in the Vibe, it handled ok. But I noticed that the Taurus tends to track and "feel" more stable in snow. A few details on the vehicles:

1994 Taurus FWD
Tires, All Season lower spec rated for 30k (softer compound)
Wheel width 68"
Weight 3300 pounds
ABS, mild activation

2005 Vibe FWD
Tires All Season middle upper spec rated for 60k tires (harder compound)
Wheel width 65"
Weight 2700 pounds
ABS average to aggressive activation

2000 GMC Yukon XL RWD
Tires winter truck tires, these are are on the verge of all seasons 70k rated
Wheel width 75"
Weight 5200 pounds
ABS average activation

I think the cheaper tires on the Taurus made the difference. I do not put a lot of miles on year to year, so I have always gone with the lower rated tire. Looking back I figure the softer compound was acting more like a winter tire,increasing the "feel". Also, the Taurus's rear brakes use a load sensing system. It is a mechanical lever that adjusts the rear braking based on the suspension travel of the car. I have not found anything similar on the Vibe. Not sure if the Vibe's ABS computer simply compensates for slipping where in 1994 they found it easier to use a mechanical link into a proportioning valve to help the ABS system. If your brakes are out of adjustment, snow and ice will cause strange things. On the Taurus I had a rear caliper seize up, trip in snow brought it to my attention.

Also I think the wheel width, outer tire edge to outer tire edge makes some difference. An 18 wheeler has a width of about 94" on the outer wheel about 68" on the inner wheel. Since tractor trailers and box trucks apply the most weight they tend to create wear patterns in the road/snow. The Taurus and Yukon track ok, I noticed the Vibe tends to float just a bit on worn roads and tire tracks in heavy snow.

Last Winter I had just gotten the car, so toughed it out with the all season tires that were on it. This year I purchased a set of snow tires. Curious how much the feel of the car changes with the proper rubber on the ground.

[kumquat]

With winter well on the way, this topic sparked my curiosity. I have a 94 Taurus FWD and 2005 FWD Vibe. I have only driven a few winter miles in the Vibe, it handled ok. But I noticed that the Taurus tends to track and "feel" more stable in snow. A few details on the vehicles:

1994 Taurus FWD
Tires, All Season lower spec rated for 30k (softer compound)
Wheel width 68"
Weight 3300 pounds
ABS, mild activation

2005 Vibe FWD
Tires All Season middle upper spec rated for 60k tires (harder compound)
Wheel width 65"
Weight 2700 pounds
ABS average to aggressive activation

2000 GMC Yukon XL RWD
Tires winter truck tires, these are are on the verge of all seasons 70k rated
Wheel width 75"
Weight 5200 pounds
ABS average activation

I think the cheaper tires on the Taurus made the difference. I do not put a lot of miles on year to year, so I have always gone with the lower rated tire. Looking back I figure the softer compound was acting more like a winter tire,increasing the "feel". Also, the Taurus's rear brakes use a load sensing system. It is a mechanical lever that adjusts the rear braking based on the suspension travel of the car. I have not found anything similar on the Vibe. Not sure if the Vibe's ABS computer simply compensates for slipping where in 1994 they found it easier to use a mechanical link into a proportioning valve to help the ABS system. If your brakes are out of adjustment, snow and ice will cause strange things. On the Taurus I had a rear caliper seize up, trip in snow brought it to my attention.

Also I think the wheel width, outer tire edge to outer tire edge makes some difference. An 18 wheeler has a width of about 94" on the outer wheel about 68" on the inner wheel. Since tractor trailers and box trucks apply the most weight they tend to create wear patterns in the road/snow. The Taurus and Yukon track ok, I noticed the Vibe tends to float just a bit on worn roads and tire tracks in heavy snow.

Last Winter I had just gotten the car, so toughed it out with the all season tires that were on it. This year I purchased a set of snow tires. Curious how much the feel of the car changes with the proper rubber on the ground.

I think the differences you feel are primarily weight. Heavier vehicles bite harder into the snow. It's a significant difference. But real winter tires on a light vehicle tend to kick the crap out of all seasons on a heavier vehicle.

My Grand Am had a curb weight of 2835 lbs while my GF's Civic was 2108 lbs. The Grand Am was a beast in the snow, even with all-season tires. Winter tires made it incredible. The Civic, with all-seasons, was difficult to go straight in at all. But with quality winter tires, it would leave the Grand Am behind.

Rubber really makes a HUGE difference.

[KITT222]

Once the snow falls I'll need to get some video of my Vibe and snow tires in action.

[glasswave]

I'm a newbie here, and perhaps i should not run counter to all the good advice already given, but to me it seems what you need is to practice. Take that Matrix to an un-plowed lot and do some donuts. Go 25mph & lock the abs, floor it from 0, crash through piles of deep snow and figure out how that car likes to be driven in various conditions. Remember, there are not bad roads, just bad drivers. I took a 1982 2wd Toy PU up & down the Cottonwood Canyons for years on Highway re-treads, all you need to do is adjust your driving for the vehicle. It's the driver, not the car. All seasons on an AWD Vibe should be no problem in all but the harshest conditions. After you learn how your awd Vide wants to be driven, you'll be rippin up and down the black ice like it's a race track.

PS--and get yourself some good winter tires, maybe with studs.

[Salsa Guy]

I got to drive my 4WD Matrix on some sleet/snow/freezing rain mix and it was flawless. I've got good all-season tires and it was a tank. But I hate these ABS brakes...they need to be de-tuned.

Only studs or chains will work on solid ice

[REN69]

My wife loves her 04 AWD... I drove it in the snow the other day and it definitely is a tank in the snow, it just goes.

When we bought the car, even though reviews said it was slower and heavier and the fuel mileage was lower than the FWD models, watching this video made me realize that we had made a good choice, specially for our area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEXtk-MtNU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here's another crazy video, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCKAFmrzFbM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

we've so far done maintenance, replaced some diff seals and of course changed the fluid and a few other seals here and there and the mechanic said we should be good for a long time.