HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Technical info on the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix including do-it-yourself info
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Water boy
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HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by Water boy »

See my UPDATE on 08/30/2014.

Seems this "ticking sound" problem is getting more common and has been posted all over the place. Thought I'd put my experience here.Ordered my part from Amazon which had the best price at the time.Someday this might qualify as a "Sticky Thread".Here are my tools.10MM socket5.5MM socketMini ratchetU-joint24" extension90* adapterRemove glove box.Disconnect the white connector.Above that connector is a brace that runs from the dash to the firewall.Bend the tang downward.The black circle is a stud with a 10MM nut on top.Remove that nut.The other end of the brace has a 10MM nut as well.Loosen it.DO NOT REMOVE THE NUT.This allows the brace to move downward allowing more room to access the actuator screws.Pic of the top screw.This is the real *itch to get to.I used the 90* adapter and the socket.Pic of the bottom screw.You can actually see this one.Connector end.Actual screws.Here is the gear layout.I had a broken tooth.Which rotating 180* would have worked.I also had a gear shaft break off from the housing.The white tissue points to the spot it was attached.Here is the shaft and gear.Someone here was able to drill out the housing and insert a pin in place of the shaft.You will have to move the damper door to be able to engage the actuator.Before you install the screws test the actuation movement.If you press the recirculate button on the dash that will move the damper door.Remember that you have to rotate the air direction knob to move the damper door the other way.Attach the nut for the brace but do not tighten.Tighten the nut at the firewall end.Now tighten the front nut and reposition the tang.Again, test the actuator.
Last edited by Water boy on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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chadhgraves
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor (Water boy)

Post by chadhgraves »

Great job on the tutorial! I recently did this and just flipped my gear. Figure I would get a little more use out of it before I replace the whole motor. Hopefully it'll last for the life of my car.
AZViking
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by AZViking »

Has anyone had an issue with just unplugging the actuator and going without Recirc mode?
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tpollauf
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by tpollauf »

Excellent tutorial :D I just recently bumped into an owner of a 2004 Vibe and asked if she had ever experienced a "clicking "sound in the dash, and she excitedly responded "how did you know of that". I believe I recruited us a new member any day now :) Keep this informative stuff for all of us to use coming & coming & coming !!!
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omega2551
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by omega2551 »

I have to do this myself soon on my 2005. Did you go in only through the glove box hole or did you take the radio out as well?
Hutchvibe
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by Hutchvibe »

Just wanted to let you know how helpful your detailed post was.
I would not have attempted this repair without your instructions. I'm sitting at the kitchen table with a fully repaired unit in front of me. My problem was the same shaft that you showed broken off was also broken off.
To repair it, I took a nail that was very close to the same dia. and spun it in a drill against a file and finished it with the sanding tape plumbers use. Took about 6 1000's off to match the broken shaft. Drilled a perfectly centered hole thru the case and then measured the nail against the plastic shaft and cut it to length with a dremel. Final step was to put epoxy under the nail head outside the case without getting any inside on the polished shaft. I put the case halves together without gears overnight to be sure the shaft stood straight and cleanly engaged in the hole in the opposite case half. Perfect!
A little trick to avoid breaking off the case clips as some others reported was to gently pry them back with flat toothpicks and leaving all 6 picks in place while carefully prying the halves apart with a thin screwdriver being careful to work evenly around around the case and pulling the halves straight apart.
The dealer from whom we bought our Salsa '05 quoted me $90 for a new actuator and $88 for installation...I spent $30 and bought a set of extensions, a universal and metric sockets for my 1/8" socket set ;)
Final point, I pried the center dash bezel off and reached thru there to loosen the top screw as another member posted.
It all worked great thanks to this wonderful forum!!! If this arthritic 67 year old can do it, anyone can.
omega2551
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by omega2551 »

This thing was a PITA to replace. I ended up taking the radio out and going in through there for the top screw but even then it was very hard to access. I tried using a U Joint with some extensions, but the vent air duct was in the way and prevented me from being able to twist the screw. I ended up just forcing my hand in there with a 1/4" drive mini ratchet to get at the top screw, it was quite painful.
NotKeven
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by NotKeven »

You could be like me and tear into the dash when you only have 2 hours of daylight left, hoping an auto parts store will have a new one, they don't, hoping the junk yards in the area will have a junker, they don't, and remove the whole dang dash to find where it is, before checking this forum.... Another note therein, how is it only 5 screws, a bolt and the pass airbag clip to take the dash board out?? This thread has saved my life assuming my gears still are flipable. Thank you !!
TerribleTim
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by TerribleTim »

This happened to me as well with the clicking noise. I couldn't get the top screw out, so I set the damper door in recirc mode and unplugged the unit. Figured if I needed fresh air, I could open a window. This was two years ago.

BTW Rock Auto has these things for like $40 and not surprisingly, there isn't one for the Matrix because they have a Toyota hvac and never break. So forget about all those Matrix in the boneyard.

Anyway, just did major repairs to this car and decided to tackle the recirc damper again. I discovered the easy way to get the top screw out is to remove the three bolts holding the passenger airbag in, unplug it and remove it out the top of the dash. The top screw is now staring you in the face. Very easy with regular tools. CAUTION- the airbag is like a hand grenade. Strongly recommend disconnecting the battery before messing with it per all car mfrs.

The clicking noise is the broken axle on the last gear in the train. Mine also had a couple broken teeth. I actually broke the next axle up in line while "repairing" it. I fixed the two different diameter axles with a finishing nail and an 1/8 rod and some JB Weld, and flipped the last gear 180 degrees per this thread. Seems good for now.

This is the most ridiculous design. Has GM never heard of limit switches? They stall the motor at each end of travel!!
If they do that, at least don't use plastic gears and axles.

Anyway, my solution was the passenger airbag removal.
04 Vibe base - A/T, moon & tunes, pwr pkg, white, hvy tint
Daily driver - bought new
Burns1210
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by Burns1210 »

I heard, diagnosed, checked genvibe, and fixed within 24 hours. To remove the motor and spin the gear I only used:

7/32 socket
1/4" drive
Rubber band
Electrical tape
Flat head screwdriver

Wrap the rubber band around the socket to get a grip on it for that top bolt and turn it by hand. Use the tape to wrap the casing after you break the tabs. Mine went at 172,000 miles on an '08, I rarely use recirculate. Took about 30 minutes, could probably do it again in 10.
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Zorren
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by Zorren »

If I wanted to buy new which is better? AC Delco 15-72794
or GM 88970277. Anyone had an issue with either. I am not confident that I can fix the old part. The shaft is broken as well as the gear.
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jake75
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by jake75 »

Isn't this essentially a Toyota part? Used for years on Matrix. Corolla and perhaps other models as the hvac controls seem to all look alike.
One would think that with the history of failures Toyota would have redesigned that part by now. The one on my 2003 Vibe failed at about 5 years 30,000 miles.
2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."
TerribleTim
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by TerribleTim »

Jake-
We all wish this was true.
The hvac on the matrix is completely different than the vibe.
If you go to RockAuto.com, they sell this actuator for the Vibe but not for the Matrix.
I think this says something about Toyotas "history of failure."

Zorren-
You sure this isn't two numbers for the same part?? Are the prices different?

Can't believe gm didn't use limit switches on the vibe for this part, instead of stalling out the motor at each end of travel. Especially with plastic gears and axles. How cheesy...
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Daily driver - bought new
RFG
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by RFG »

What a great forum! Found it after searching for the clicking noise. Excellent instructions! I don't have time to do a complete repair for awhile, so I am wondering --

Is there a way to disconnect it such that it stays in the fresh air mode? I rarely use recirc anyway. Just as a test, I unplugged the large white power cable (shown in OP's first picture), but that didn't seem to disable the motor. I could still switch recirc on and off even with that power disconnected. Is there another power connection to unplug?

Thanks!
RFG
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by RFG »

OK, looking closer I can see the blue power connector for the actuator itself. Can't seem to locate the release tab to get it off! Also still not clear why removing the larger white connector doesn't disable functionality, since it feeds power to the actuator.

Another question: if it's just left to click in the Fresh position, won't the motor just eventually give out, leaving it stuck in the Fresh position? Or will it cause other problems?

Thanks all
TerribleTim
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by TerribleTim »

Hi RFG
i put the damper in recirc for two years before I fixed it because I need max AC here. Figured if I need fresh air I could open a window or the roof. I just pushed the recirc switch till I got the clicking, then unplugged the blue / green wire from the actuator. There is a locking tab on the top of that plug. The only way to unlock it is prying the tab up slightly with a screwdriver or knife(without breaking it off) and pulling on the plug. You could do the same thing in the fresh air mode the same way.

If you leave the motor plugged in in the fresh position, the only thing that will happen is the clicking will drive you crazy. This is a cheesy design. The motor in the actuator is ALWAYS UNDER POWER at either damper position. When the damper reaches its limit of travel, the motor stalls out, but it still puts torque on the damper. I'm sure Pontiac engineers (remember those guys who are unemployed now), would say stalling the motor keeps good air sealing on the damper door with constant torque / pressure from the motor. And I've never heard of this motor burning out from being stalled (unless designed properly, burning up is very common with stalled motors). Which is the answer to your question.
What the Pontiac guys did wrong was use weak plastic gears and axles between the motor and damper that aren't up to the constant force of the stalled motor. Eventually, the teeth break off, then the axle snaps and you get clicking because the motor is always trying to run. This can happen in either recirc or fresh air mode. Nothing wrong with the motor though, except perhaps too strong for the gears.

The Matrix has a completely different cabin air system and apparently, their actuators don't break.
If it was me, I would have used limit switches to turn off the motor at each end of damper travel. Why waste the electricity? Or better yet, a slider on the dash with a mechanical cable to operate the damper like every other car I've ever owned.
04 Vibe base - A/T, moon & tunes, pwr pkg, white, hvy tint
Daily driver - bought new
RFG
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by RFG »

Thanks for your reply, Tim!! Very helpful explanation, and you are right, rather silly design. I'll probably disconnect the cable this weekend.

Thanks again!
DTeck
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by DTeck »

I removed the motor in my 08 and flipped the gear without just a 5.5mm socket with a rubber band rapped around it with out loosening or removing anything else except the glove box. I noticed when I put it back when the little door opens and closes that it pauses in the middle for a second or so. Dose anyone think this is anything to be concerned about?
matthew7hayes123
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by matthew7hayes123 »

DTeck wrote:I removed the motor in my 08 and flipped the gear without just a 5.5mm socket with a rubber band rapped around it with out loosening or removing anything else except the glove box. I noticed when I put it back when the little door opens and closes that it pauses in the middle for a second or so. Dose anyone think this is anything to be concerned about?
I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like it's still doing the job.

After 5 hours (that includes a 30 minute trip for more tools) of trying different approaches and contorting by hands/arms in various positions to reach those tiny 5.5mm screws, mine is fixed too. Taking the dash apart was not something I was willing to do. Accessing the top screw through the stereo area did not work for me at all. I just couldn't get the angle right. Ultimately, the rubber-band around a socket is what worked for me. I've never heard of that trick. If I'm ever in a similar situation, I'll now know what to do. Thank you so much for sharing!

I had broken teeth in the big white gear, so I turned it 180 and put it all back together. When I tried it, it still clicked. I took it back out, took it back apart, and discovered that one of the gear posts had broken off. I missed it the first time, because I thought the post was sitting in a hole.

I found a metal pin in my junk bucket that happened to have the exact same thickness of the broken plastic post. The new metal pin was a bit too long, so I drilled holes through the case. Luckily, the pin wasn't big enough to stick out of the case on either side. I just put some electrical tape over both sides to ensure that the pin doesn't loosen up and fall out.
DTeck
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by DTeck »

Yep, I used the rubber band on the socket too. I cant believe I never thought of that.
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PeterK
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by PeterK »

Was ready to bring my '03 with 242k+ to the mechanic for that dreadful clicking, but thanks to this forum, I'll get this done myself in no time! THANK YOU ALL!
-Peter K
cptnsolo77
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor

Post by cptnsolo77 »

I finally took the plunge & replaced mine accessing the actuator through the glove box. Purchased the actuator at Rock Auto for about 40 bucks. I used 2 tools: 5.5 mm socket & universal. I removed the lower screw by holding he socket & turning by hand. It wasnt that tight. The upper screw I did have to use the universal & turn by hand just to break it loose, then continued to loosen with the socket by hand. Installation was the reverse, however I lost grip tightening & holding the bare socket. I had some double sided tape & wrapped it around the socket so my fingers had much more & grip & there yay go ! One hour from start to finish & no more click...click...click... 8-) Too bad its in a bad location, the procedure is very simple: 2 screws & a connector...jeeezuss :roll:
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Water boy
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by Water boy »

Had to replace the "motor" again. Saw where someone said to got thru the airbag hole.

Take ALL manufacturer's precautions when working around/near/with any airbag device.

So here are some pics.
There are 2 10mm nuts (one on each side) and 1 12mm in the center. There are also some tabs that must be pressed to pop up the assembly. Fairly easy to access.

Image

Image

Image
2008
47,891 Added new horns
47,900 Yokohama Avid 205/55-16 $492.40 drive out w/TPMS rebuild kits
69,036 Added sound deadening
70,395 Battery
106,019 Yokohama YK580 205/55-16 $589.19 drive out
TerribleTim
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by TerribleTim »

Tried everything in this forum before removing the airbag, but it ended up being easy.

If you did it a second time, you couldn't flip the gear again. Did you buy a new actuator? Who & price?

Btw great pix. Is that a phone camera or what?
04 Vibe base - A/T, moon & tunes, pwr pkg, white, hvy tint
Daily driver - bought new
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Water boy
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by Water boy »

TerribleTim wrote:Tried everything in this forum before removing the airbag, but it ended up being easy.

If you did it a second time, you couldn't flip the gear again. Did you buy a new actuator? Who & price?

Btw great pix. Is that a phone camera or what?
Yea, I bought a new one since I thought I already did the 180*. Turns out, after I took the motor apart that I remembered that I bought a new one last time since the gear spindle was broken. Oh well, got a spare now and tagged it as 180*.

I bought it from Amazon. Don't remember the price but it had to be pretty good since I shop the internet a lot.

Pics are with my iPhone 5 ver 6.1.4
2008
47,891 Added new horns
47,900 Yokohama Avid 205/55-16 $492.40 drive out w/TPMS rebuild kits
69,036 Added sound deadening
70,395 Battery
106,019 Yokohama YK580 205/55-16 $589.19 drive out
davidb2100
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by davidb2100 »

This forum saved me a lot of time and money. I ordered the actuator on line through Amazon for a 1/4 of the price the dealer wanted and used the elastic band method. Had the job done in half a hour. :D
bull77
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by bull77 »

add my vibe to the list -- started to happen a few weeks ago @ 250,000kms. Going to try going through the glove box and flipping the gear 8-)
bull77
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by bull77 »

tackled this fix today and after a hour finally got it! I took out the radio but ended up going through the glove box :D :D

thanks to whoever suggested using the rubber band on the socket, worked like a charm. my hands and forearms are beat up but it's so satisfying that it no longer ticks :lol:
blue_can
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Re: HVAC Damper Door Actuator Motor UPDATE 08/2014

Post by blue_can »

I just posted about about this in the "Interior" section not realizing it is a common problem.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44859

My question was about about installing the top screw but I see the suggestion about removing the airbag to do this. My car is due for the airbag recall service on the passenger side so I may have the dealer put the screw in while the airbag is out.
'07 Vibe
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