A/C compressor clutch swap

[zaphodave]

First I'd like to thank y'all. Great site!Helped solidify the purchase of Perf Jan. 2nd. (Yup, named this '03 vibe Perf)Special thanks to the numerous posts that popped up when I typed "a/c compressor help", and this thread:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... ...Grabbed an a/c compressor clutch kit from the autoparts store. Mine was $107.25. Rmfg from Cooling depot. Part#11147282Got Perf up on jackstands after loosening the bolts on the right front tire. Removed the tire, neg terminal from battery, serpentine belt, dirt shield that seperates engine bay from wheel well, and radiator shroud/fan. The fan assy is secured with 2 10m bolts. Disconnect the wiring connector at the fan motor and coolant overflow hose, then lift that white plastic beast out of the way.The air compressor hangs down enough to access the clutch from underneath without having to remove the a/c hoses. 1 bolt above the compressor, and 2 below, secure it to the engine block. I used needle nose pliers to unclip this connector from the compressor b4 disconnecting. Undo that screw holing the wire as well.The clutch plate slipped off after removing the center screw. Hope u have snap ring pliers. Take the outer snap ring off, then slide the clutch off. The magnetic coil slides off after removing a bigger snap ring.Make sure you line up the pin on the back of the new coil with the hole on the compressor. Did I do that backwards?No puller required! It all came off by hand.Installation is the reverse of removal. Be carefull not to stress the a/c hoses! A repair and recharge of the system is costly and tough to do right without proper shop equipment.Spacers came with the kit to make sure the clutch and clutch plate have proper clearance. I didn't need any. Make sure the clutch spins freely after tightening the center screw, (80 in-lbs). The compressor to engine bolts torqued to 96 in-lbs. I used small dabs of light threadlocker for peace of mind.So, there ya go!

[joatmon]

I did this today, and wanted to say thanks for posting the write up

Had no AC. Compressor clutch wasn't engaging. I pulled the AC clutch relay, jumpered the contacts, nothing. Even pulled the wire off the compressor and verified it wasn't broken.

Bought a replacement compressor clutch from ebay seller "dustyjay54" for $75, free shipping. Ordered it on Sunday, partshowed up on Wednesday. The GM part number for the clutch is 88972204. Came as an OEM GM kit, one box with three smaller boxes in it. The replacement screw they sent that holds the plate on to the compressor chart came with two flat washers, I had to use both of them under the plate to allow the pulley to spin when not enganged

Took me three hours so far to do the clutch swap. Maybe about two to do the swap and check it out, another hour so far and counting trying to find one missing socket somewhere. Had to take a break from looking. It can't have gone far, I'd just feel better knowing it wasn't int he engine bay somewhere. That's the way these things go sometimes.

After I had it bolted back up I jumpered the contacts where the relay goes and heard a nice satisfying clack. I then started the car up and hit the AC button, nothing. My heart sank. Checked, clutch not engaging. After some hand wringing and pulling of hair I realized I had the fan int he off position. AC doesn't work with no fan. turned the fan on, turned the AC on and rather quickly nice cold air was streaming out the vents. I felt like TOm Hanks in castaway when he finally starts a fire. Calmed down, and verified that the clutch disengaged when I turned the AC off.

God to go, except for that socket I can't find yet.
edit - found it. Ahhh. You know what they say, it's always in the last place you look (unless you're stupid)

[joatmon]

There are a lot of causes for no AC, so when my car had no AC I started with the easiest things to troubleshoot. The clutch consists of a coil, a free wheeling pulley driven y the serpentine belt, and a pressure plate mounted on the end of the compressor shaft. When the clutch coil energizes, the magnetic field it generates pulls the pressure plate against the pulley, the plate then spins with the belt driven pulley, turning the compressor. When the clutch disengages, coil releases the plate and the pulley spins free, no longer turning the compressor. it is a strong magnetic force, when the clutch engages it does so enthusiastically with a loud sharp clack. Here is how I verified my AC clutch wasn't working.

1. With the car not running, key not in the ignition, battery connected as normal.
2. Reach in and make sure that the plate on the end of the compressor could turn. The pulley is locked in by the friction of the belt, but when the clutch is not engaged the plate on the end should still be able to turn.
3. I pulled the AC clutch relay. Luckily it is in the easy to access underhood fuse block
EDIT per Jonoman77's post below:
3A. Turn ignition key to ON
4. I used a voltmeter to verify that I was in fact getting 12V at the relay contact that gets 12V from the fuse. This wasn't necessary to test the clutch relay, but if I wasn't getting 12V there, maybe my problem was the AC clutch fuse in the awful to access under dash fuse block. (I had actually checked the fuse before moving on to the relay)
5. I used a piece of wire to connect the battery positive terminal to the relay contact in the picture marked as 12V to clutch. If the clutch was working, then I would be able to hear a loud clack when the clutch engaged. On mine, before the swap, I heard no clack. After the fix, the clack was unmistakable. It's a single wire running from that relay contact to the clutch, no other circuitry involved that might keep the 12V form getting there. The clutch gets ground from connection to the engine block.
6. After the fix, when I did get the clack, I left the clutch energized and verified that I could no longer turn the plate on the end of the compressor. It was grabbing the pulley tightly.

Here is a picture showing the location of the AC clutch relay, with an insert of the relay removed to show two contacts I mentioned above

ACclutchRelay.jpg (68.52 KiB) Viewed 53253 times

[kostby]

I discovered the 'no A/C' problem yesterday on a trip home during our first 88-degree day of the season.

A few things I discovered while troubleshooting that might be helpful:

1. My 2003 Vibe base under-hood fuse block includes a handy white fuse-puller stored just in the rectangular opening to the left of the 3 relays in the upper-right corner of Joatmon's photo. (It is missing in Joatmon's photo)

2. Once removed, I tested the gray Toyota A/C clutch relay by touching the two smaller silver contacts to a 9-volt battery.
If you hear and feel an audible click when you touch the battery across the silver contacts, it's working.
(The larger copper-colored contacts are the ones the power is switched through when the relay is activated.)

3. I found a flat-blade screwdriver can help to pry that 40-amp fuse loose from it's home location under the dash where my fingers just can't bend to reach it. I gently pried against the nearby wiring harness.

4. When reinstalling the 40-amp fuse under the dash, I used some (adhesive) tape to hold the relay at the tip of the screwdriver, so I could then maneuver it back into position and once in the correct position, finally use a finger to push it back into place securely.


So the fuse tested OK, the clutch tested OK (at least it clicks) when jumped as described by Joatmon above, and the relay seems OK.

Next, there's a 10-amp under-dash fuse marked AC on the (Corolla) diagram

To be continued...

[Flip-Side]

My 03 vibe had the ac clutch go bad years ago and I had someone else replace it. Lasted another 30k before the compressor died and was replaced.

Now I need to do the same thing on my 03 XRS I got last year. A/C is dead, and I have power going to the compressor clutch but no engagement, and Freon pressure is still good. This time I plan to do it myself in a week or so, but my worry is that the clutch has been broken for so long that the compressor has been just sitting there for a long time. Being the cheapest fix, I am going to give it a shot anyways before I drop a bunch of dough on tools and a new compressor.

Is it too late to try and resurrect a compressor that has not been cycled for a long period of time? The last owner was a dope and I bet it has been sitting for a long while.

[trb]

As long as you can manually turn the center of the pulley that is connected to the compressor itself, I would go ahead with the clutch swap. Mine on my Mustang was out for several years and I was able to fix it just fine. The issue comes up if the system is not charged as moisture can get into the system and damage the compressor.

[Flip-Side]

Thank you for the input. Getting the clutch ordered and we'll see what happens.

[jlkwiththree]

Great write up and pictures! I did this on my daughter's 03 a few weeks back without any real issues. I did have to employ a puller to get the coil freed from the compressor, and I had some thread issues on one of the long bolts that hold it to the block, but nothing insurmountable. THANKS!!!

[Flip-Side]

I completed the clutch swap as depicted above on my 03 Matrix Xrs. The snap ring on the coil did not hold the coil in place properly due to corrosion in the groove and it came loose while driving. The coil was destroyed. I removed the clutch, pulley, and coil again. I cleaned the snap ring grooves, replaced the destroyed coil, and reassembled. I made sure that everything was fully seated this time with a dead blow hammer before installing the snap rings.

I nkw have perfectly functioning ac. Thanks to all for the information

[nshimmy]

I have a 2003 vibe base model and my compressor clutch is not engaging. The following is a list of what I have done:
- with the car off verified that the clutch moved freely. It did.
- with the car running, the fan on, and a/c switch depressed checked to see if the clutch would engage. It did not.
- pulled the clutch relay and hooked 12v to the "to the clutch" contacts as described above to see if the clutch would engage. It did not.
- performed the clutch swap as described above and reconnected 12v to the contact. Got a satisfying "clack" (that inner snap ring is a bear to get to so the repair took longer than expected) and with the 12v still applied verified the clutch was indeed engaged. It was.
- started the car, turned on the fan, and turned on the a/c. Did not receive any cold air. I opened the hood and looked to see if the clutch was engaged. It was not.
- turned off the car, verified that the clutch moved freely, and it did. Then I applied 12v again to the relay contacts and received the "clack" again.
- used a multimeter to check that 12v was coming from the fuse to the relay. There was 12v present.
- used the relay from the horn and put it in the clutch relay spot. The clutch would still not engage with the a/c turned on.

My next steps are to replace the clutch relay with a new one anyways just incase the horn relay wouldn't have worked anyways, and to have the refrigerant pressure checked. I will post updates as I get those accomplished. In the mean time does anyone have any other suggestions for things to try?

[nshimmy]

...My next steps are to replace the clutch relay with a new one anyways just incase the horn relay wouldn't have worked anyways, and to have the refrigerant pressure checked. I will post updates as I get those accomplished. In the mean time does anyone have any other suggestions for things to try?

- installed new relay and the clutch will still not engage.

I will try and get the pressure of the system checked, but does anybody have any other suggestions?

[trb]

There should be a pressure switch someplace on the refrigerant lines or dryer assembly that cuts the compressor off if the refrigerant is too low. If everything else works, then that is probably the problem. You can use a piece of wire and jump across the terminals on the wiring harness that attaches to the switch to test it. If the clutch engages, then the switch is bad or the system is low.

[triz]

If anyone needs a compressor I have a 2zz compressor for 75 shipped. Just hit me up via PM. Pretty awesome DIY pics though. I had a AC compressor seize on my on a road trip in my Chevy TB and it was not fun when it locked up.

[porkchop62]

I replaced my A/C clutch yesterday with no issues. Took about 4 hours, only because I work slow and check everything twice! I was about to use a pulley puller when it just slipped off! Sure enough, the issue was a temperature fuse located on the coil. Over time, the engagement plate wears against the pulley, which increases the gap, causing slippage. Too much slippage = friction heat = blown fuse. Knowing what I know now, I would have checked the gap between the plate and the pulley (about .030-.060"), and if necessary, remove the engagement plate and remove a shim washer. That's a lot cheaper than a $135 replacement clutch. Anyway, I have cold air again!

[joatmon]

From PM, for posterity and so others can weigh in,

Hi Joatmon, I read your thread regrding the AC clutch replacement. I have a 04 GT w 107K. I can only turn the clutch by hand, when engine off, about 10 degrees. Is this what you meant by being able to turn it? My green light comes on, but there is not clack, and I can see the clutch is not turning. I used a voltmeter and got 12.4 volts on contact #1 (top left) and contact #3 (center). I did not try to jumper the #3 and #4 contacts yet. I am calling contact #1 top left, #2, lower left, conttact #3 center, and #4 far right. (looking at your picture ). If I get 12.43 volts on #1 and #3, does that mean the fuse under the dash is okay? Anything else? Thanks, Todd

I can't remember how much the compressor shaft turns when the clutch is not engaged. I can check on mine tonight and let you know.

The voltages sound right to me, the 12V on #3 comes from the fuse, so the fuse must be good. The 12V on #1 is right, but only if #2 is 0V/ground, and the dash switch is set to turn AC on.

These tests don't rule out the possibility of a bad AC clutch relay. To test that, you'd need to measure somewhere that the 12V on #3 gets connected to #4 when the relay gets power. A quick way to check is to verify that your fog lights work, and if they do, then swap the AC clutch relay and the fog light relay, and then recheck the fogs and the AC clutch operation.

I swapped the fog light relay with the ac clutch relay...absolutely nothing, no clack from the compressor, no drop in rpms, nothing. Fog lights definitely worked. I made sure the fan was on and I still had the green light on the dash switch. I replaced both relays as they were. So, pretty safe to assume it is the clutch, I would hope?

It looks like the best way is to take off both the plastic shield under the compressor and the side panel next to the compressor. I noticed people had issues with the compressor bolts. I suppose I could spray PB Blaster in there a couple times and let it sit for a few days?

At least its not below zero anymore...in an unheated garage.

I checked my compressor and it seems to spin relatively freely. Engine off, forcing my hand down there, with one finger I can rotate the end cap on the compressor. The pulley doesn't move, locked in place by the serpentine belt, but with the engine off, AC clutch disengaged, the end plate does move fine, as many full rotations as I care to turn it with not much resistance. You had said yours only spins about ten degrees, which is a concern.

From what you've said, it sounds like the clutch could be bad, but if the compressor doesn't spin, then putting a clutch on it might not solve all the problems. Would suck to replace the clutch to find out the compressor itself had internal problems.

So I'm reluctant to say for sure what you ought to do, but I think I'll copy all this to the thread, better that way, so other people can offer advice, and also for the next person who may have something similar come up

[dogboy99]

Thanks for the Great write up with pictures . Sure helped me . I did all the procedures & determined it is the clutch coil. I doubt my Freon level is low as it was ice cold & than the next second nothing but warm air. I ordered a clutch coil from amazon for about $115 shipped ( ACDelco 15-4851 GM Original Equipment Air Conditioning Compressor Clutch). I will need a tork socket to remove the center hub screw anyone know the size? I have a T40 but its too big & a T25 which is too small. I have a pulley remover already, if needed, any other special tools I will need?

[dogboy99]

I got it a T30 fits right in.

[dogboy99]

Did the coil today & as usual it was a (removed) to get the pulley off. I had no way to get the pulley puller on so I used 2-3 screw drivers along the edge,banging them into the gap area around the circumference in order to get the damn thing off. took a 1/2 hr but it came off. I was worried about damage to the compressor but had no choice. The compressor was dangling down with support wires & gave me plenty of room to work. I was able to use the pulley puller to get the belt pulley off without much difficulty. The snap rings were a pia especially getting them back on. Entire job took me 6 hrs. A/C blows ice cold again. total cost was $115.& 4 tabs of ibuphrophen.

[tpollauf]

total cost was $115.& 4 tabs of ibuphrophen.

Them darn pharmaceuticals took you to the bank on this one The labor of love BUT just in time for the summer heat. Great job!

[fst]

sorry to resurrect this thread but my ac stopped working and I can turn the clutch by hand with engine off. the relay and fuse both are fine. this next step, is this doen with the motor on or off?
"- pulled the clutch relay and hooked 12v to the "to the clutch" contacts as described above to see if the clutch would engage. It did not."

[hogdoctor]

there is a low system pressure cutout switch between the relay and the compressor clutch, so if you're getting power through the relay, but not to the compressor clutch, you could be low on refrigerant. Either check for power at the compressor clutch solenoid connector, or apply power at that connector to see if the clutch activates. If the clutch checks out ok, then check low side system pressure - repair and recharge as needed.

[fst]

I bought a can of the Freon recharge with the gauge and when I tried to add Freon on the low pressure side, the needle was already pegged in the red zone meaning its not low on Freon.

regarding the relay I swapped it with the horn and no change fwiw. is the compressor clutch solenoid connector on the compressor (only connector on thre IIRC)? how would I apply power there out of curiosity?

[mntn-biker]

I just installed a new clutch on my ac compressor. How do you keep the clutch from spinning to tighten the center bolt down to 13 ftlbs (per 03 Toyota Matrix repair manual spec)?

On edit: The repair manual states to use vise grips with a cloth to grip the pulley and clutch while torqueing the bolt down.

On edit (again): Yeah the vise grip thing is a fail. Low and behold there is another loaner tool from AutoZone specifically for this application. It is called and A/C Clutch Holding Tool

[Jonoman77]

There are a lot of causes for no AC, so when my car had no AC I started with the easiest things to troubleshoot. The clutch consists of a coil, a free wheeling pulley driven y the serpentine belt, and a pressure plate mounted on the end of the compressor shaft. When the clutch coil energizes, the magnetic field it generates pulls the pressure plate against the pulley, the plate then spins with the belt driven pulley, turning the compressor. When the clutch disengages, coil releases the plate and the pulley spins free, no longer turning the compressor. it is a strong magnetic force, when the clutch engages it does so enthusiastically with a loud sharp clack. Here is how I verified my AC clutch wasn't working.

1. With the car not running, key not in the ignition, battery connected as normal.
2. Reach in and make sure that the plate on the end of the compressor could turn. The pulley is locked in by the friction of the belt, but when the clutch is not engaged the plate on the end should still be able to turn.
3. I pulled the AC clutch relay. Luckily it is in the easy to access underhood fuse block
4. I used a voltmeter to verify that I was in fact getting 12V at the relay contact that gets 12V from the fuse. This wasn't necessary to test the clutch relay, but if I wasn't getting 12V there, maybe my problem was the AC clutch fuse in the awful to access under dash fuse block. (I had actually checked the fuse before moving on to the relay)
5. I used a piece of wire to connect the battery positive terminal to the relay contact in the picture marked as 12V to clutch. If the clutch was working, then I would be able to hear a loud clack when the clutch engaged. On mine, before the swap, I heard no clack. After the fix, the clack was unmistakable. It's a single wire running from that relay contact to the clutch, no other circuitry involved that might keep the 12V form getting there. The clutch gets ground from connection to the engine block.
6. After the fix, when I did get the clack, I left the clutch energized and verified that I could no longer turn the plate on the end of the compressor. It was grabbing the pulley tightly.

Here is a picture showing the location of the AC clutch relay, with an insert of the relay removed to show two contacts I mentioned above


ACclutchRelay.jpg

Apologies for the old bump but I am currently troubleshooting my 2003 base Vibe's AC and on mine I only get 12V at the AC clutch relay (from fuse) when the engine is ON. Per what you wrote it sounds like you were saying there should be 12V even when the engine is off but I think that was just miscommunication perhaps.

[joatmon]

Apologies for the old bump but I am currently troubleshooting my 2003 base Vibe's AC and on mine I only get 12V at the AC clutch relay (from fuse) when the engine is ON. Per what you wrote it sounds like you were saying there should be 12V even when the engine is off but I think that was just miscommunication perhaps.

You are right, looks like I left out a part. The bit about key off was for safety, Edited the post you quoted

The 12V to the clutch relay comes from the AC fuse. The AC fuse gets power from the Heater relay. The Heater relay gets power from the Heater fuse. The Heater fuse is always hot, however, the Heater relay is only closed when the Gauge fuse gets power. The Gauge fuse only gets power when the ignition switch is in the ON position

tl:dr -> AC relay power only there when key is on.