Excessive Brake Pad/Rotor Failure 2009 Vibe GT FWD

[Cyberian]

I am new to your forum. I do not operate an auto repair facility but was an R&D Engineer (engine lubrication specialist) for a major oil company for 20+ years (M.S.M.E.) and have owned and prepared many cars for SCCA B & C competition. My neighbor, a gentleman past middle age and of mild driving habits, recently asked me to take a look and listen concerning his 2009 Vibe GT FWD (2.4L) with 69,500 miles on it. He stated there was a light 'grinding noise' and the car seemed sluggish or 'dragging' on first motion in the morning (his description). My first thought was transmission, and a look at the AT dipstick revealed a heavy concentration of metallic particulates in the AT fluid, but more on that issue in a later thread. The car was a daily commuter in NJ and was exposed to heavily salted roads, as well as temperatures ranging from the high 90s to -10°F in the winter. The owner is now retired and uses the car for short- and moderate-length driving trips (<150 miles). Inspecting the front brakes, the outer rotor surface exhibited moderate scoring, and on rotation of both front wheels, there was a metallic sound that was highly uncharacteristic for a disc brake assembly. Wheel bearings are tight, tire alignment had been recently checked. On disassembly of the front wheels, the inner surface damage to the rotors was found to be catastrophic with the same level of damage noted on the brake pads. The attached photos show what was found on the rotors after removal. Both upper-position caliper pins were locked up, but removable with moderate force; all four caliper pins showed no evidence of prior lubrication. The pads were also highly degraded at the inner and outer circumferential margins, showing cracking from overheating and some crumbling of the edges. It would be really valuable to determine the manufacturer of these pads, but there is no ID printing remaining. Both front caliper pistons operated normally without any erratic movement; piston displacement was consistent with a calibrated applied hydraulic pressure. The rear brake rotors exhibited normal wear with slight scoring, but with somewhat asymmetrical wear between the outer and inner pads, mostly likely due to lack of lubrication of the caliper pins and backing pad contact edges.

The Vibe owner does not have any service records indicating the brakes were ever serviced since the car was new, however, he did state the car had been taken to dealerships for mandatory recall/normal service item maintenance. Regardless, this failure demonstrates the need to clean and lubricate the caliper pins and pad backing plate edge contact surfaces at every brake pad change. (Pad photos in next post.)

[Cyberian]

These are photos of the brake pads associated with the rotors discussed in the OP.

[SeattleJeremy]

The amount of wear and rust on these brakes is impressive. Never seen anything like that on such a new car.

[jake75]

My 2009 Vibe is a little over 5 years old. Only about 32,000 miles. 4 wheel disk brakes. I wonder if I should replace the front pads as it only is a $99 job at the dealer.

[Zimm]

wow, that's as bad as i've seen a pair of rotors look on a recent model, daily driven vehicle.

i've recently begun hearing some "unusual" noises from my front brakes on my '10 with 60k miles. something of a "grinding" noise, which seems premature for pad wear and also odd since i have yet to hear any trademark squeals from the brake "chatters" indicating significant wear. wondering if my calipers are sliding well-no evidence performance or mpg-wise to date, but your very informative post has me thinking...

[Cyberian]

The owner of this Vibe stated that he felt nothing unusual in braking such as pulling or a failure to stop normally.. His initial complaint was a wheel speed-dependent scraping noise when starting out slow in the morning with the windows open, and a feeling that the car was 'dragging" or sluggish. I'm still attempting to analyze the mechanism for this brake failure. In 40 years of working on my own cars, I have never seen such circumferential pad and rotor wear. The driver's side had a 14mm wide groove in the inner rotor face, while the passenger side had a 27mm wide groove on the inner surface, The corresponding pads were severely worn away with a protruding ridge on the inner pads matching the grooves on the inner face of the rotors. What is most unusual is that the remaining contact surfaces were relatively flat and had reasonably defined edges; the cross-section profile of the pad ridge and rotor groove were rectangular. The outer face of the rotors appeared more normal with a moderate amount of scoring. Thus, this car was being stopped with the front brakes having inner surface contact rings 14 and 27mm in width. What occurred here affected both front wheels, but only on the inner brake surface. The failure of the pads shows a classic overheating appearance with glazing, fracturing and edge crumbling. Could there be a failure mode for these brakes that is inherent in their design under certain circumstances? Or, did a specific inferior brand of brake pad precipitate this catastrophic failure? The repair for this vehicle included a set of new Raybestos Advanced Technology front rotors, new premium ceramic pads, cleaning and lubrication of the slider pins at all four corners and a complete vacuum flush of the brake lines with DOT 3/4 synthetic brake fluid. I posted this as an FYI to those of you hearing any unusual noises from your front brakes.

[Cyberian]

My 2009 Vibe is a little over 5 years old. Only about 32,000 miles. 4 wheel disk brakes. I wonder if I should replace the front pads as it only is a $99 job at the dealer.

I would at least have the inner & outer pads and rotor surfaces inspected for any unusual wear. if you're inclined, Akebono or Raybestos premium grade ceramic front pads are only about $47.00 online and doing the job yourself is relatively easy. Just factor in a copious amount of high-temperature synthetic brake grease to lubricate the caliper slider pins and the pad edges where they contact the caliper bracket. There must be some photo or video threads that will show you how to do it step-by-step. Whether this particular Vibe was running on original factory brakes or if they had been serviced at some point is unknown. One fact that is known is that there was absolutely no lubricant found on the caliper slider pins when they were removed from the caliper bracket.

[gtv237]

The front of the rotors don't look out of the ordinary. I'm guessing the inside pads were stuck in the caliper bracket?

[Cyberian]

The front of the rotors don't look out of the ordinary. I'm guessing the inside pads were stuck in the caliper bracket?

The inner pads on both wheels were frozen at some point, but something chewed away the brake pads at the outer and inner circumference margins that left the narrow contact ridge near the middle of each pad and subsequently created the narrow, flat contact wear groove in the middle of the rotors. There must have been tremendous pressure on the driver side inner rotor face to stop the car as the actual contact area looks to be approximately 10% of the total rotor contact surface area. What factor caused just the inner pads on both front wheels to behave this way is still an open question.

[tpollauf]

Welcome to GenVibe! You sound like another mechanical engineer ( a lot of us here) and kudos for assisting your neighbor on this important issue. As a two Vibe family (again, several multiple Vibe families here) I do as much maintenance on them as possible. Where not possible I have close friends who own their own shops and they go out of their way to take care of me. Much like how you took care of your neighbor. My son's Vibe has the higher of the two's mileage (around 53k right now) and needed the front brakes & rotors replaced 10k miles ago. His Vibe we got at a real good price BUT it was due to a lease turn in and it was severely abused. The prior owner did NO maintenance at all. It wouldn't have surprised me if the oil was never changed either! My Vibe, on the other hand only has 18k miles due to me driving a commercial vehicle the majority of the time (a nice perk with my job). Will inspect both Vibe's later this month when I have time to do a thorough examination to them. Thanks for posting this valuable info to us Vibe owners

[Capt.Vibe]

Those photos look almost identical to my rear disc brakes which I replaced last week. The outside rotor looked ok but the inside had clearly not had any contact with the pad in a while as evidence by the flaking rust exactly like the pics above.

The inner pad was clearly stuck in the bracket and was not working, so the outer pad was doing all the braking for the rear. The outer pad itself was also sticking from time to time, it was worn out at a severe angle rather than even flat. Thought something was up when after a rainstorm felt there was resistance and the car would not roll back on my sloped driveway. Car has only 57,000km. The fronts are still ok, but will be due in 6-12 months.

I don't think it's a manufacturing issue. The climate here for exposed iron brakes is brutal much worse than NJ. The roads are salted and wet pretty much non stop from Dec-March. The brakes go through a salt bath daily and I would imagine the southern or west coast members have no issues with this. My mechanic recommended a set of zinc coated rotors, apparently more rust resistant. Not convinced personally but I bit the bullet and paid the $75 extra.

[Zimm]

wow, that's as bad as i've seen a pair of rotors look on a recent model, daily driven vehicle.

i've recently begun hearing some "unusual" noises from my front brakes on my '10 with 60k miles. something of a "grinding" noise, which seems premature for pad wear and also odd since i have yet to hear any trademark squeals from the brake "chatters" indicating significant wear. wondering if my calipers are sliding well-no evidence performance or mpg-wise to date, but your very informative post has me thinking...

well, my brake chatters started chirping today, so i guess it's time for new pads and rotors up front. based on the responses of others in northern climates here, i will also be inspecting my rear brakes as well and hoping not to find any excessive wear.

anyone have recommendations for replacement pads/rotors for a 2nd gen? i'm inclined to use Advance auto due to store proximity and great coupon codes when ordering online. i'm almost thinking of going with cheap Wearever pads/rotors for the front, and then planning to replace both the backs and fronts in 30-40,000 miles (about 3 years).

[Cyberian]

The 2009 Vibe in the OP was fitted with Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors for about $50 each from Amazon of all places. They are powder-coated at non-pad contact surfaces and are machine balanced. I normally prefer Akebono ceramic pads, but Raybestos Professional Grade ceramics were used on the vehicle, along with a thorough cleaning of the caliper pins and bracket sleeves, followed by an application of both Permatex Ceramic (purple) and Raybestos Silicone (whitish/clear) brake lubricants on the pins and all other friction points. A recent look at a 2009 Camry with the 2.4L and a very similar brake caliper type a year after installation showed that even well-lubricated pins, after a year on NJ roads require some attention. The pins and pads were still well-lubricated but the pins were lightly stuck in their bracket sleeves, requiring just some moderate hand force to free them up again. Rotor and pad wear appeared normal after a year and about 20,000 miles of use.

[kingcaff]

Can confirm that driving the vibe in the "rust belt" has an adverse on the brakes ability to stay clean, especially when dealing with lubricants and wear overall. I frequently check the rotors and brakes with every tire rotation while I am changing the oil, about every 4,000 miles. Just taking a look and a few minutes can help determine if your brakes are working and looking good. And always rotate the tires if you are changing the oil, this has allowed me to reduce tire wear by a large amount and keeps your car rolling smooth and straight. Just remember to treat your brakes with the same respect as your oil, they are stopping your vehicle. i think this post was dead

[vibedrivermatt]

Yea, the brakes seem to rust very fast. I also had an issue with the caliper pins drying up on the front but I thought it was because I monkeyed around around with the caliper pins and put the wrong kind of caliper lube back in. They were fine after I found the correct caliper pin lube. It's a grey colored ceremic type. It looks a little like anti-seize compound but it's brake lube. it came in a white and red bottle butbi dInt know the specific brand stuff at the monent. I was also able to source the rubber bushing for the guide pins and get new ones.

The rotors are definitely junky. My car only has 52000. It fets pretty lightly driven but i live in the rust belt as well (upstate ny) and they get doused in road salt every year.

I've already replaced all rotors. I'm posting in here because lately the rear brakes are making a ton of noise. It actually started only when i was going in reverse but now its all the time. The second pair of rear rotors look shot again. But I'm going to go ahead and clean the caliper pins in the rear. It still has the original lube it it if there's any left.

It's still not the worst thing. I might have to get some of those fancy rotors next time.