new shocks an struts

Handling, suspension, and brake tuning discussions
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MadHatter
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new shocks an struts

Post by MadHatter »

hey guys im looking to get a better ride on our 06 base. currently we have 100k on it.. for the first few years we used it as a truck, hauling everything from tile to grave. so i know we are partly to blame for the current ride conditions. when we go over expansion joints on the highway it jars the car so hard the little storage compartment on the driverside falls open. SOOO we (meaning me) want to smooth the ride out..since we are going to keep this car for at least another 2 years. im thinking the best thing to do is just replace the struts an shocks but i dont know what brand to get. Im not a racer and could really care less how it handles around a curve.. i just want a nice smooth ride. any and all suggestions are appreciated.
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trb
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by trb »

You can get OEM struts for around $60 each from here, and shocks are about $50 each:

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/catalog/frameset.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course Rockauto.com has several brands available too.
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MadHatter
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by MadHatter »

well i was thinking something a little better than OEM... im sure a new set of OEM shocks would give a better ride than whats on there now.. BUT it wasnt all that great to begain with.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by lannvouivre »

Have you considered different tires? I recently replaced my factory Goodyear Eagle RSA tires with some Arizonian Silver Edition tires and the ride was noticeably smoother.

You could also try searching for "smoother ride," several people have inquired about ways to improve it since it can be a little stiff. I think some people have suggested Monroe Sensa-trac as an upgrade, but I haven't checked about it since I repeated the bounce test recently and my car passed.
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meidou
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by meidou »

Just bumping an old thread guys,the OEM struts are they the same as KYB G2.
I found KYB G2 selling for $300 bucks -http://www.justsuspension.com/vaf/produ ... odel=10709#
Would you recommend these over OEM

Thanks alot guys
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by 09SnowyVibe »

KYB is a top of the line strut. I've also noticed most toyota struts last the life of the car for some reason..
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crashbandit
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

KYB are top of the line shocks? I was told that these are the OEM shocks on my Vibe, and I think they completely suck! I think they switched the springs and shocks on my car when they put it together on the assembly line, I got the ones that should have gone on the 1 ton pickup truck! I feel like I am riding on rims strapped to 2x4's ! Out of the ten cars I have owned in my life, this one rides the worst by far.
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vibrologist
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

crashbandit wrote:KYB are top of the line shocks? I was told that these are the OEM shocks on my Vibe, and I think they completely suck! I think they switched the springs and shocks on my car when they put it together on the assembly line, I got the ones that should have gone on the 1 ton pickup truck! I feel like I am riding on rims strapped to 2x4's ! Out of the ten cars I have owned in my life, this one rides the worst by far.
Yeah, crashbandit! Skip the sugar coating and tell it as it is!

The first thing my wife said was: I can feel every little bump.

I agree with you. The ride is harsh. I wonder of anyone has put Monroe Sensa-Trac on a Vibe or Matrix. The Sensa-Trac promise is enhanced control with uncompromised comfort. But what we need is "enhanced comfort". So far I have not found any report on the Sensa-Trac mounted on a Vibe. I have used them on other vehicles and they worked very well for me. But I don't know if they really improve the ride comfort on a Vibe.

http://www.monroe.com/en-US/products/Se ... a%2520trac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Raven
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by Raven »

I'm running Tokico struts with my Tein S-Tech springs on my '06. Huge improvement over stock KYB's.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

Raven wrote:I'm running Tokico struts with my Tein S-Tech springs on my '06. Huge improvement over stock KYB's.
Raven: is it really more comfortable? Using the word 'improvement' by itself does not tell what aspect of the ride has been improved.

Back in March you wrote this somewhere:
This is what I have on my '06. Tein S. Tech springs for about a 2" drop with Tokico struts. No probs for 18s.
Your car is lowered. I think that means you were looking for sharper handling, not for a more comfortable ride.

Am I correct?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

Now I found opinions and reviews based on the Corolla. Thanks, Amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/Monroe-72114-OESp ... B000EQCU94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Raven
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by Raven »

Sharper handling yes. The Tokico's did improve the ride quality also. They're much smoother over small rapid bumps and remove a bit of the harshness when hitting a sharp bump.
The general ride quality of the Vibe is quite awful in general. I drove it for the first time in several months (daughter's car now) this week. Compared to our 2012 Subaru Outback it is bone jarring but man does it hug the road.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

Thanks Raven! This helps. It tells that the factory mounted KYB's are crude, the valving is primitive. It seems contradictory that you can lower a car and improve ride comfort at the same time. But you ascertain that this is not the case. Stock springs and Tokicos should make a significant difference.

This is in line with one of the reviews of the Monroe Sensa-trac. One guy writes that the struts are firmer than stock yet the ride is more comfortable.

The first car our family owned was a Renault 4L. In many ways the Vibe reminds me of that car: a practical, economical 5 door. Of course the Vibe is safer and stronger but the R4 was just as versatile and sooooo comfortable.

Pardon the French, but look at the spring action!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2qvqzmR2UA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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lannvouivre
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by lannvouivre »

Ironically, when I lowered my car (TEIN STechs and Tokico blues), the ride got slightly better in that it was more responsive and I had less "wiggle". However, the ride is still stiff. On the other hand, the handling and willingness is so much better than the Impala and my mm's Mariner that I really can't complain. At least the Vibe does what I want her to without fighting against me.
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ParknVibe
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

I am surprise that none of you guys in this thread or topic about the struts...did not look into the Monroe OEspectrums Then should give a better ride then the stocks. They are Monroe newest struts designed to minimize the rough shock of the road.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

ParknVibe wrote:I am surprise that none of you guys in this thread or topic about the struts...did not look into the Monroe OEspectrums Then should give a better ride then the stocks. They are Monroe newest struts designed to minimize the rough shock of the road.
Good point. I was not familiar with them. Are you using them on any vehicle?

The Monroe web page has a product selector that gives 2 choices. "Smooth Ride with good control" suggest a Quickstrut, but does not tell which strut it is and "Improved stability with reduced harshness" suggests the OESpectrum struts:
Monroe OESpectrum units provide an unprecedented level of handling precision and control while filtering out the ride harshness commonly encountered on many foreign nameplate applications.
Click on the shock selector:http://www.monroe.com/en-US/catalog/e-Catalog

I found for FWD they suggest OESpectrum for the front only and Quickstruts for the rear.
For AWD they suggest OESpectrum for front and rear.
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ParknVibe
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

>>>>Good point. I was not familiar with them. Are you using them on any vehicle?<<<<

No, But I have been wishing to install them for 6 years onto my 2009 Vibe..... I just have very, very low mileage ....would you believe less then 15,000 miles.
The Monroe Struts for the 2009-2010 Vibes only became available a year or so.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

ParknVibe wrote:>>>>Good point. I was not familiar with them. Are you using them on any vehicle?<<<<

No, But I have been wishing to install them for 6 years onto my 2009 Vibe..... I just have very, very low mileage ....would you believe less then 15,000 miles.
The Monroe Struts for the 2009-2010 Vibes only became available a year or so.
O.k. That's why it is so hard to find proper reviews. I found some on BMW forums. They are telling that OESpectrum are decent for daily drivers, but not for track days. Bilstein are just the other way around: good for track and too harsh for daily driving.
I am thinking OESpectrum suit me fine.

That is low miles. Wear and tear won't give you a reason or excuse to change them. You will have to do it because you want to.

My '05 is at 92000 miles, the left front strut has a little leak. There is my excuse and when Monroe puts them on sale I might get them this fall.

The Monroe website does not show OESpectum struts for the FWD rear, only for AWD, RockAuto does. It gets confusing at times.
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crashbandit
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

I just replaced my rear struts on my 07 vibe and I haven't noticed any significant improvement in my ride. It is still very harsh, really hell on my back on long trips. My old shocks were no where near worn out. Basically a waste of 400 bucks to purchase the shocks and have them installed. I am going to try replacing my stock tires with 205/65 R16 size tires. ( I don't care if it screws up my speedometer! ) Otherwise I will be looking to sell this car. My mileage is at 73000 right now.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

crashbandit wrote:I just replaced my rear struts on my 07 vibe and I haven't noticed any significant improvement in my ride. It is still very harsh, really hell on my back on long trips. My old shocks were no where near worn out. Basically a waste of 400 bucks to purchase the shocks and have them installed. I am going to try replacing my stock tires with 205/65 R16 size tires. ( I don't care if it screws up my speedometer! ) Otherwise I will be looking to sell this car. My mileage is at 73000 right now.
You didn't say what brand you bought?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

OE spectrum by Monroe.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

crashbandit wrote:I just replaced my rear struts on my 07 vibe and I haven't noticed any significant improvement in my ride. It is still very harsh, really hell on my back on long trips. My old shocks were no where near worn out. Basically a waste of 400 bucks to purchase the shocks and have them installed. I am going to try replacing my stock tires with 205/65 R16 size tires. ( I don't care if it screws up my speedometer! ) Otherwise I will be looking to sell this car. My mileage is at 73000 right now.
Oh......
I really don't like to hear this because I wanted to go the same route. You only replaced the rears. In this car you feel mostly the fronts from the driver's seat.
I hope someone else reports on a full set of new OESpectrums.

Crashbandit: I am pretty much in the same predicament. Only the Vibe can stay in the family.
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sideshowalan
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by sideshowalan »

New struts / shocks won't increase ride comfort. They're supposed to control rebound and keep the tires planted to the ground.
If anything they'll stiffen up the ride because the car won't bounce around as much.

Some cars are designed to be soft and floaty, some are harsh and firm.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by lannvouivre »

sideshowalan wrote:New struts / shocks won't increase ride comfort. They're supposed to control rebound and keep the tires planted to the ground.
If anything they'll stiffen up the ride because the car won't bounce around as much.

Some cars are designed to be soft and floaty, some are harsh and firm.
The bad shocks on the Impala make the car squish and dive around, plus wiggle up and down. Bouncing around does not feel good at all. Ugh, I get seasick just thinking about it. If softer springs were made for the Vibe/Matrix, that would probably help some.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

I believe it is just a poorly designed suspension. This isn't a sports car, it's a little commuter car with a weak 4cyl engine, so why design it with a harsh ,stiff ride?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

I agree with lannvouivre. Unfortunately, softer springs will be impossible to find. Aftermarket goes to harder "sportier" springs, shocks (struts) and anti sway bars. If you do find softer springs you will need to look for struts that harmonize with them.

I remember the soft sprung French cars of my past: Renault 4 and Peugeot 304. They really swallowed up the bumps and potholes. Of course they were not as powerful and with narrow tires they never achieved the cornering speeds that the Vibe is capable of. But VW, Audi, BMW, Cruze and even Focus provide a measure of comfort together with excellent cornering ability. Add the Ford Contour to that list: firm, but not harsh. Even Mazda does a better job.

It is a compromise and Pontiac/Toyota wanted it to feel hard. They succeeded.

Sideshowalan said that new shocks would be harder. That is only partially true. It depends in which state of wear the old shock have been and it depends on
the shock's valving and fluid. On my Windstar the struts got actually bouncier with age. I think that the gas escaped. Somehow the whole front end got jittery. that went away with new struts.
On the Aerostar I changed from Ford shocks to Monroe Sensa-Track. They made the vehicle more comfortable.
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lannvouivre
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by lannvouivre »

crashbandit wrote:I believe it is just a poorly designed suspension. This isn't a sports car, it's a little commuter car with a weak 4cyl engine, so why design it with a harsh ,stiff ride?
It's also an economy car. I dunno, I have heard that's just how Japanese cars tend to be, with Mazdas/Lexuses/Infinitis being softer. I have heard Toyota prefers to go for comfort over performance, but definitely the economy cars don't ride softly. At this point, I have test-driven several of Toyota's line, and the RAV4 (not the latest generation) and Corolla definitely don't ride as well as the others, although the Corolla/Matrix seem to have better handling. I have not driven an Avalon yet, don't remember if I have driven a Camry later than the '95.

I don't mind the harsh ride much, as it handles pretty well and isn't as bad as a lowered Scion tC or whatever lowered pickup that Seth had (he cut the springs, ugh). I hate driving the Impala because it feels like it desperately wants to do whatever I don't want it to do.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

I hate driving the Impala because it feels like it desperately wants to do whatever I don't want it to do.
If it is too soft and wobbly you usually can fix it. Drive the sister model to the impala: Pontiac Grand Prix. If you like how that one rides then you can put in the Pontiac parts.
I have sampled a Buick Century once. I know what it feels like. I also sampled the Grand Prix about 10 years ago and I really liked how that one rode.
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crashbandit
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

If I could get rid of the rattling and banging sounds the car makes in the rear end when I hit bigger bumps, I think it would actually "feel" like it rides better. I know this problem is for another forum, but I have checked everything from the rear window to the bumper mounts and everything seems tight. I think it's just the jolting from bumps that shakes the whole car. Would I be wasting more money if I try tires with a wider sidewall? Like a 70 instead of the 55's I have on it now?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

crashbandit wrote:If I could get rid of the rattling and banging sounds the car makes in the rear end when I hit bigger bumps, I think it would actually "feel" like it rides better. I know this problem is for another forum, but I have checked everything from the rear window to the bumper mounts and everything seems tight. I think it's just the jolting from bumps that shakes the whole car. Would I be wasting more money if I try tires with a wider sidewall? Like a 70 instead of the 55's I have on it now?
That assumes that you checked all the rear suspension parts as well: control arm bushings, sway bar bushings and sway bar links. And of course the struts. Park the car and open the rear door wide. Use the door for leverage to rock the car. Does that reproduce the noise? If so check the sway bar links first.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ehoff121 »

crashbandit wrote:If I could get rid of the rattling and banging sounds the car makes in the rear end when I hit bigger bumps
Have you checked that the spare tire is secure and the jack and the lug wrench are tight? Maybe some other items in/under the spare compartment?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

Well, I tore everything out of the trunk under the floor and sprayed all the metal floor areas with rubberized undercoating. Then I cut a piece of carpet to fit under the spare tire so it can'tbang against the floor. I also made sure the round wing nut was securely tightened down. I even lined the tool compartments that hold the tools for changing the tires with rubber pads that I got from work.it seems to be the hatchback and rear window that bang and rattle. All my bushings and connecting linkages in the rear suspension seem solid.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

"Suspension
The Vibe's suspension is constructed for the optimal blend of crisp, sporty handling and a smooth ride consistent with Pontiac's brand character. The front suspension is designed with a leading-arm MacPherson strut type with a high caster angle. The rear suspensions of the base and GT vehicles have a twist beam. It ensures ample wheel stroke, improving riding comfort and quietness and providing outstanding handling and driving stability."

This guy is definitely on drugs!
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

crashbandit wrote:"Suspension
The Vibe's suspension is constructed for the optimal blend of crisp, sporty handling and a smooth ride consistent with Pontiac's brand character. The front suspension is designed with a leading-arm MacPherson strut type with a high caster angle. The rear suspensions of the base and GT vehicles have a twist beam. It ensures ample wheel stroke, improving riding comfort and quietness and providing outstanding handling and driving stability."

This guy is definitely on drugs!
Do you have the GT model?
I have some kind of noise coming from the rear ...could be the all the plastic removable covers on my 2009 Vibe. I also have something like maybe the heat shield (over the muffler) that makes a noise when I close the rear hatch.

I agree with you about the ride....I feel it's the front struts that you should change....that's where you first feel the shock! I have added more air into all my tires...and that helps a little with the ride...because it gives you more side wall support. I have the 17 inch wheels. I had it as much as 40 psi be now I have it at 36 psi... At the 32 psi pressure, I really feel the pain
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

crashbandit wrote:"Suspension
The Vibe's suspension is constructed for the optimal blend of crisp, sporty handling and a smooth ride consistent with Pontiac's brand character. The front suspension is designed with a leading-arm MacPherson strut type with a high caster angle. The rear suspensions of the base and GT vehicles have a twist beam. It ensures ample wheel stroke, improving riding comfort and quietness and providing outstanding handling and driving stability."
Who wrote that? Danielle Steel?
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by crashbandit »

This if from Edmund's.com in their review of the vibe!

Pros
Roomy backseat, comfortable ride, versatile cargo area, excellent fuel economy, reliable Toyota powertrain
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by lannvouivre »

crashbandit wrote:This if from Edmund's.com in their review of the vibe!

Pros
Roomy backseat, comfortable ride, versatile cargo area, excellent fuel economy, reliable Toyota powertrain
what
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by tjollimore »

Don't know what you're all going on about, but that description of the Vibe's handling and feel isn't far off... I find it firm, but not punishing over bumps, and it handles well for an 'economy' car. At least, after you put better wheels (a touch wider) on it than came stock on the base model... But you're right. When you drove a Corolla it was very soft and quiet. The Vibe/Matrix are supposed to be 'sports-oriented', so were made louder and rougher. Not necessarily an improvement, but it's all in the mind. ;) A 'good' suspension won't bounce you around, but will comfortably absorbing big bumps while only giving you the impression you just hit one...

My front driver's side shock finally gave up the ghost, just approaching 100k miles. About to shop around for replacements.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by gtv237 »

A lot of the rough ride people feel is from the beam rear suspension. The AWD guys have it good with their fancy independent rear suspension. It makes it kind of rough around corners because body roll is very limited. If you hit a bump the whole rear end seems to bounce.

I have an interesting question though. I am not a fan of OE struts. They just seem to go bad too fast. But what is original equipment? It should be the Toyota part number right? Whatever GM sells would be an aftermarket acdelco product correct? I'd like to believe that the GM part is an upgrade from OEM.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by gtv237 »

ParknVibe wrote: I have added more air into all my tires...and that helps a little with the ride...because it gives you more side wall support. I have the 17 inch wheels. I had it as much as 40 psi be now I have it at 36 psi... At the 32 psi pressure, I really feel the pain
Even with narrow side walls it should be the opposite. More air pressure will stiffen the tire making the ride harsh.
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Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibrologist »

gtv237 wrote:
ParknVibe wrote: I have added more air into all my tires...and that helps a little with the ride...because it gives you more side wall support. I have the 17 inch wheels. I had it as much as 40 psi be now I have it at 36 psi... At the 32 psi pressure, I really feel the pain
Even with narrow side walls it should be the opposite. More air pressure will stiffen the tire making the ride harsh.
Correct.

Here is another tidbit:
The rear suspensions of the base and GT vehicles have a twist beam. It ensures ample wheel stroke
(Edmund's)

Ample wheel stroke?!? On some auto parts sites you can actually get information on the travel that the struts provide. The rear struts for the base Vibe provide about 5" of travel. The rear struts for our Ford Contour provide about 9" of travel.

I am still riding around on my OE struts. I was even thinking if it would be possible and effective to use struts of a more comfortable vehicle. But I am afraid I invite some unforeseen trouble going that route. It would have to be of a car that uses a twist beam rear axle. Using more travel would allow the beam to twist more. Problem is: I have no idea how much twist that beam can handle.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

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ParknVibe
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:38 am

Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

gtv237 wrote: I have an interesting question though. I am not a fan of OE struts. They just seem to go bad too fast. But what is original equipment? It should be the Toyota part number right? Whatever GM sells would be an aftermarket acdelco product correct? I'd like to believe that the GM part is an upgrade from OEM.
The OEM struts for the 2009 Vibe are made by KYB. It is stamped on the side of the Struts. I'll assume KYB are on the earlier Vibe models.
vibolista
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:34 am
Location: "Glacial", Maine!

Re: new shocks an struts

Post by vibolista »

My '08 is just in between firm and soft. Well, maybe a little toward the firm side. Vibes are pretty basic transportation. Reliable, super roomy and durable. Corolla based, which is just OK. Drive a late '90s to early 2000s Corolla and then drive a similar year Honda Civic and you'll notice that one is way more sturdy and rudimentary (a truck for example) and one is a fairly good handling road car by comparison.

Second point is... the Vibe is a very light car. Drive an empty '90s era Toyota Tacoma on a bumpy dirt road and it will test your ability to stay on the seat and on the road at anything over 25 mph. But, load that truck with about 400 pounds of cargo strapped to the bed and now you might have a not too bad riding vehicle.

I have 17 inch alloys on the Vibe and a 225/50 tire on it for Summer. The tire is a Kumho Ecsta LX Platinum (dumb tire name) that I keep at 38 front and 36 rear. Not a lot of sidewall (next Summer tire will be 225/55 17), but the tire is fairly soft and the tread is pretty quiet, which was the spec I was looking for. This set up was about equal in soft/stiff (ness) to the original BadYear RS-A tires that came on the car. I didn't like the RS-A tires at all in the rain so that's why I wanted to replace them. The Kumho's are way better in the rain, and a lot quieter. On the other hand, this Kumho is really scary on snow. I have 215/55 16 Blizzak snow tires on the steel wheels for Winter. Wish I'd gone with 215/60 or even 65 16s. I will up-size the sidewall on my next Winter tire.

Unless you load up your Vibe with some extra equipment or 3 passenger volunteers, I don't think that the "Vibe ride" will change much. You could go with an soft 205/65 16 tire, and get some extra sidewall to dampen the ride a little, since there's a quite a lot of space in the wheel wells, but then you'd have to mess around with the tire pressure to get the best ride, anyway. Just remember that high performance tires generally have stiff sidewalls, compared to a standard touring tire. There are soft riding tires out there.

Speedometer error can be learned and driven accordingly, or just get a GPS that shows your actual speed and you're all set to go.
'08 Manual, Sun&Sound, 17" Borbet Type CA wheels, 215/50 Summer Tires... 16" OE steel, 215/55 Snow Tires
ParknVibe
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:38 am

Re: new shocks an struts

Post by ParknVibe »

vibolista wrote:
I have 17 inch alloys on the Vibe and a 225/50 tire on it for Summer. The tire is a Kumho Ecsta LX Platinum (dumb tire name) that I keep at 38 front and 36 rear. Not a lot of sidewall (next Summer tire will be 225/55 17), but the tire is fairly soft and the tread is pretty quiet, which was the spec I was looking for. This set up was about equal in soft/stiff (ness) to the original BadYear RS-A tires that came on the car. I didn't like the RS-A tires at all in the rain so that's why I wanted to replace them. The Kumho's are way better in the rain, and a lot quieter. On the other hand, this Kumho is really scary on snow. I have 215/55 16 Blizzak snow tires on the steel wheels for Winter. Wish I'd gone with 215/60 or even 65 16s. I will up-size the sidewall on my next Winter tire.

Unless you load up your Vibe with some extra equipment or 3 passenger volunteers, I don't think that the "Vibe ride" will change much. You could go with an soft 205/65 16 tire, and get some extra sidewall to dampen the ride a little, since there's a quite a lot of space in the wheel wells, but then you'd have to mess around with the tire pressure to get the best ride, anyway. Just remember that high performance tires generally have stiff sidewalls, compared to a standard touring tire. There are soft riding tires out there.

Speedometer error can be learned and driven accordingly, or just get a GPS that shows your actual speed and you're all set to go.

Are you using an "all season tire"?....The Kumho that is?
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