Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...??

General discussions not related to the Vibe, Matrix, or any other vehicle. (follow posting rules)
Sublimewind
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Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...??

Post by Sublimewind »

Well, NASIOC.com has been working on the definition since 2003...!!!I thought i might share some funny and interesting things with all of you... hopefully it does not offend anyone... http://forums.nasioc.com/forum...88272If you start from the back and work forward it's easier, being that it started in 03' many of the pics on the first pages are missing.... enjoy..Aaron
Whelan
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by Whelan »

Technically speaking shopping cart spoilers were on the list of what makes a car rice. Then the STi and Evo came over with their signature wings. Now its cool. But to me, it's only cool if you actually own an STi, EVO. Or if that 2.5RS is bought that has been tuned up.Otherwise, it is not ok for your 1994 2 Door Accord EX in Green to have a black spary painted ginormous wing. What makes a car rice, god that's such a tough question, cause some cars look good with aftermarket heads and tails and such. For me a few things stick out.1) Spinner hubcaps2) LED washer nozzle lights, doesn't matter the color3) Wiper blade fins (those colored slap on things)4) Decals do not bother me when placed right, decals of products you do not own, bothersome. i.e. Konig decal while you roll on BBS wheels. K&N sticker while you have a Cosmo, etc.5) Excessively loud, go nowhere muffler.6) Cutting off your muffler tip7) Driving on black steelies when its not winter and you are not in a snow region. You just want that black wheel look.8) Anything done to a Jeep Wrangler that denotes it as being pimped, i.e. dropping it, chrome oversized rims, etc. 9) GTS headlight covers. Apparently some people don't need to see in the dark.10) Cars that are not the right cars. If I drove a 3 series but put an M logo on it, or say I dropped an XRS tag on my XR.11) Any older style BMW that has been given the "treatment" with different wheels, altezzas, etc. Basically they turned their old 328 into a Civic.12) Keeping your bumper or body kit primered for an extended period of time, yes it fits, now take it off and get it painted please!13) Any body kit or bumpers painted a different color than the car without coordination or matching. That thick red spraypaint against your white cavaliers body.14) Allowing your trunk to rattle uncontrollably because you wanted the big sub instead of the right one for your car and failing to sound deaden properly. But continuously blaring it convinced it sounds good and people are looking at you cause your cool.I could go on and on.
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drunkenmaxx
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Whelan)

Post by drunkenmaxx »

i have a problem with 14.i don't care if mine rattles outside (mine doesn't yet, my vibe eventually did) as long as it sounds good and i can't hear it inside. anyone who plays music loudly in order to get other people to hear it is a loser. IMO of course.
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Sublimewind
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (drunkenmaxx)

Post by Sublimewind »

Quote, originally posted by drunkenmaxx »i have a problem with 14.i don't care if mine rattles outside (mine doesn't yet, my vibe eventually did) as long as it sounds good and i can't hear it inside. anyone who plays music loudly in order to get other people to hear it is a loser. IMO of course.So, what you are saying, is that, you use those 2 12" kickers, all for just you, windows up, A/C on... nobody but you, gets to enjoy your MC Hammer.....[Dr.Evil voice]R....I....G....H....T..........................S....U....R....E....[/Dr.Evil voice]
drunkenmaxx
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by drunkenmaxx »

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »So, what you are saying is that you use those 2 12" kickers all for just you, windows up, A/C on... nobody but you gets to enjoy your MC Hammer.....[Dr.Evil voice]R....I....G....H....T..........................S....U....R....E....[/Dr.Evil voice]well, mine are MTX, but that's irrelevant here.i bump with the windows up all the time. i also do it when nobody else is around. most of the time, if i am listening to rap, i turn it down when other people are near, because i don't like to blare obscenities.
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Lancer
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Whelan)

Post by Lancer »

How about putting v-tec emblems on a scion xb?I think rice is someone that doesn't have the money and/or vision to mod his car in an astheticly clean style.I think I'm borderline rice. I don't have the money and it's taking so long to finish the car. 4 years and counting.
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AKLGT
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Lancer)

Post by AKLGT »

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »How about putting v-tec emblems on a scion xb?I think rice is someone that doesn't have the money and/or vision to mod his car in an astheticly clean style.I think I'm borderline rice. I don't have the money and it's taking so long to finish the car. 4 years and counting. Lancer, i would not consider your vibe as "rice" imo. you have a scheme to the car and you have something under the hood.personally, my biggest gripes about "rice" are (adding and agreeing to pretty much everything Whelan has said):1. unnecessary wings for a car that does not actually need (as in it's way too slow) or does not even come as an option from the factory (STI and EVO not included as they come from the factory with the ginormous wing- though i am not a fan)2. absolutely positively ANY and ALL body panels, pieces or other exterior part that is not painted (usually in primer or gel coat form) that is not painted to match the rest of the vehicle for longer than 30 days. this is my 30 day rule. as long as you paint it within 30 days, it is acceptable. however, once it goes past 30 days and you do not have an appointment with the paint shop to paint it, or lack fund to do so, please please please take it off unless you purposely want to embarrass other owners or fans of that car. for example: there is a guy with an 03 WRX (blue) with a white gel coat body kit. it's been white gel coat for well over 2 years and he has yet to paint it because he has no money. instead he put a white vinyl windshield banner and tells everyone that he "meant" the body kit to be white gel coat. that is RICE in its fullest.3. plastic parts and pieces that stick on with 3M tape and are actually non-functioning. these items include but are not limited to: fake hood scoops (especially the ones that don't even have an actual opening to make them functional if you so wanted), vents, exhaust tips, etc. there is an exception to this rule if this item is a small tasteful lip spoiler (front or back) and of course painted (or carbon fiber) to match the rest of the vehicle. usually these riced out cheap parts are purchased at large chain stores such as Walmart and even Canadian Tire. sorry to those who like them, but the Lund fake hood scoops and the fake factory Dodge hood scoops found on some trucks fall into this category. scoops that actually have a hole under them in the hood are acceptable, or scoops that are turned into functional are also OK (ie. Celtic Curse and the CF hood like Merzbow). 4. adding any body kit of anykind without having absolutely NOTHING done to the engine for performance. the all show and no go is pure rice! even a CAI or SRI will suffice to cover the "performance" issue, but would be considered minimal.5. any exhaust of any kind on any vehicle that sounds like a pissed off swarm of bumble bees, fart can, tin can, etc and/or you can fit a bowling ball into also RICE. this applies to anything (even Subaru's - there are far too many obnoxiously loud and large coffee can mufflers that some young punk kid throws onto a WRX). that is RICE.6. body graphics (unless business related) or decals that list out companies or brands of performance items that are NOT in the car, nor are sponsoring that vehicle. any kind of japanimation type large graphics on the sides of cars with the person's name is also RICE.i think that will just about cover my biggest rice gripes. of course it is all personal preference and if someone likes their rice, well it's his/her perogative so who cares what any of us thinks.
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tcam
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (AKLGT)

Post by tcam »

wow, I have a huggge problem when people who consider themselves to be car enthusiasts and tuners rag on fellow enthusiasts just because they don't have what they consider to be a nice car. IMO, as long as someone respects and understands their car and enjoys what they're doing with it, then there should be no reason to make fun of them at all. I agree that a lot of those cars from that forum looked wayyyy overdone to me, but to the owner, that may just be their personal preference. And I have nothing wrong with that. Just because I have always thought that "less is more" when it comes to tuning cars, doesn't mean that everyone else has to think that.
Sublimewind
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Post by Sublimewind »

Good points fellas..... Did any of you happen to look at the link??? Beyond this being a discussion, there is some REALLY comical stuff in that post i linked.... I personally am more of "to each their own" for the most part... There are some things that make me laugh and comment about, but, more because it's not put together well, than flat out wrong... As tcam said, not everyone can afford serious mods and unfortunately not everyone has GOOD taste....
Whelan
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (tcam)

Post by Whelan »

Someone doesnt have to have a top of the line to have respect. I've seen many clean looking rides that may not be the fastest on the block, but they did it right and tastefully. You saying that we rag on them cause we don't consider it a nice car is kinda to me like driving down the street and seeing all nice normal well kept houses, then seeing a hot pink trailer on a lawn with 3 cars on blocks, rusted equipment in front and overgrown everything, and saying, oh well thats still ok cause he has somewhere to live. I just don't see it. It's not hard to give some effort to upkeep and proper care/maintenance and style. Heck me and my fience live at Target (Tar-jaaay) which is cheap but trendy and stylish, no need for Pottery Barn everyday.Moving along, (no offense btw, just discussion), I would like to submit a couple others. I think we are on 15.15) Cutting your springs for a lowering job.16) Not fixing wheel camber, so you have the saggy "I like to replace my uneven tread every 2,000 mile look."17) Visible neons, i.e. the ones people put on their A-pillar right in their face so they can't see anything.18) Color scheming gone amuck, green car, blue interior, yellow neons, purple speakers, red tints.19) The I'm better than you kid, he is an automatic rice. He stands by his car at the gathering and when you try to be cool and ask about it he doesn't explain it to you, he brags about it with all kinds of racing stories and how his Focus ZX3 wasted a STi etc. Then proceeds to not care in the least about your ride.20) Just in from MO, Faux Sunroofs! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...stingA side note to the 3M sticker accessories, One I can def. say that kills me to see is the stick on side exhaust tips, what a waste of $15. I also spent over a month looking for my exhaust for the Civic. I didn't want loud but I wanted a little more power. Ended up with the Apexi World Sport II. Probably the quietest muffler made for the car and almost sounded stock at regular driving, but when you got on it, the compliments poured in, made me feel good to know I had made the right choice as opposed to the fart can freaks.
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rebbierae
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Whelan)

Post by rebbierae »

Sorry, this is totally off topic, and I apologize, but did you read the questions to the seller of the fake sunroof? God, those were hysterical! Ok, back on topic.
kevera
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by kevera »

This is by far my favorite one.I want this one
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ramenboy...
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Re: (Sublimewind)

Post by ramenboy... »

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »Did any of you happen to look at the link??? Beyond this being a discussion, there is some REALLY comical stuff in that post i linked... hahaa! scooter rice! anyways, reminds me of this site someone posted here a little while backhttp://www.molestedcars.commav? maybe?can't remember, but its got some comical examples there too.
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Whelan
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Re: (ramenboy...)

Post by Whelan »

Given its over 100 pages i've been flipping through it here and there. The scooter was funny.And tell me that is not a Bra cover fit over the whale tale?!?!
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AKLGT
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (tcam)

Post by AKLGT »

Quote, originally posted by tcam » wow, I have a huggge problem when people who consider themselves to be car enthusiasts and tuners rag on fellow enthusiasts just because they don't have what they consider to be a nice car. IMO, as long as someone respects and understands their car and enjoys what they're doing with it, then there should be no reason to make fun of them at all. I agree that a lot of those cars from that forum looked wayyyy overdone to me, but to the owner, that may just be their personal preference. And I have nothing wrong with that. Just because I have always thought that "less is more" when it comes to tuning cars, doesn't mean that everyone else has to think that.since you are replying to me, i will assume you are talking to me or about my post. if so, then where at does it say you must have a NICE car??? no, not anywhere. i said for ANY VEHICLE, regardless of what brand, make, model, etc. i've seen some VERY nicely done cars that i don't consider top quality, but the owner did a clean job. the car doesn't have to be super fast as i stated earlier, nor does a lot of money or work have to be input to make it look good. the question and title of this thread isn't about NICE cars and if you think they are or not. the OP asks how YOU would define what is rice (implying that is a personal opinion, just like the people who own the cars someone else may view as rice).i've seen some basic clean looking vibes here with minimal mods but look quite nice. take a look at Savedbyzero's vibe gt. it's not gaudy or flashy, but nice, clean, refreshing. IMO (NOTE: IN MY OPINION) it is one of the best looking Vibes on this forum. would i consider my old 03 Vibe GT riced out?? yes! that is why i had plates that said Rice Rocket (RIZRKT). i had the GM top wing, springs, fugly OEM 17's, riced out interior (leather with red inserts, red painted interior, lights, pedals, etc), funky tribal side graphics, etc. but i still liked it and had fun with the rice. however, i did not have unpainted body parts or some half hanging body kit on the car. again, i do not see anywhere at all, where someone says you must have an expensive or "nice" car. there were even corvettes that were posted as RICE.
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ZubenElGenubi
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by ZubenElGenubi »

I defer to Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography as my definition of "rice", which I think are remarkably similar:"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . ut I know it when I see it . . . (1)(1) JACOBELLIS v. OHIO, 378 U.S. 184 (1964)
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by ramenboy... »

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »...And tell me that is not a Bra cover fit over the whale tale?!?!hahaahaha i saw that too. what the...like kevera's shots, what bugs me is those cars with the not so good fitting body pieces, and then they've also got the stock wheels and tiny tires hidden somewhere under the flared fenders
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Post by AKLGT »

these are all items i consider to be RICE:Note: only one exhaust works... the other is not even attached!Is that contact paper???the infamous Walmart rice exhaustsCanadian Tire RiceThis rice is popular because they had it behind a locked cage! and of course, a T-shirt that says it all:
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Re: (AKLGT)

Post by ramenboy... »

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »Is that contact paper???oh nooooooooooooo...hahahaha.. i bet the walls in that cat's 'excellent' room at his parents place looks just like that. he took took the extra stuff and made a matching car out of it. suweet
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Whelan
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Re: (ramenboy...)

Post by Whelan »

Simulated exhaust pipes BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!I've seen way to many of those I have dual exhaust and only one works thing. Or they weld it right into the pipe using a cheap Y design and one gets more flow than the other.I do believe that is contact paper, He's like a start and finish line in one, LOLOL!Oh and i figured out that white thing. It looks to be a 80's-90's Cavalier T-top which I didn't think they made, only Convertibles and hardtops. Anyways, he has 95+ Mustang headlights, some white tape to make the old style mustang taillight look. Some really thick white painted bondo to hold a non-fitting spoiler with a bra cover on the back for whatever reason. Kmart hubcaps, white wiper blades and what appears to be the back of my old refridgerator simulating a big grill on the lower part of the front bumper.
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AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

let me add this one too:and this:and last:
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Whelan
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by Whelan »

Chrome Fender Flares FTW!
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by Mavrik »

been following that rice thread for a while now. Every day, something new to shock ya and make you say "oh no he di'n!"
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GrayFox
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by GrayFox »

man, some of those are deffinately... ummm.... one of a kindI wish I had a pic but I've noticed those ovalish stick-on fender "vents" are popular where I live. Usually people just stick three on each side but this guy was cool He had FIVE on each side and they were "stylishly" out of line
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by kevera »

A few more for the collection,
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by 02csnow »

I went through about 100 pages and saw some hilarious things. But some things that stood out and I dont know why people posted them. The White Honda S2000, the Yellow Ferarri 350, and the Black Subaru 2.5RS with CF hood.
Bye Bye Vibe.............
kevera
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by kevera »

This one,I like it,not rice to me. I think this is though.This is a ghetto hot rod
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (kevera)

Post by 02csnow »

Yep that is the one. The second is really not rice to me or rice to me. I think it is more like artwork. Someone just built that for shows and that is it. Like all the SEMA cars you see.
Bye Bye Vibe.............
Sublimewind
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (kevera)

Post by Sublimewind »

I do believe that is an Alpine car, and that right there would be the apdomie(sp?) of audio excelence right thrrrr... At least it "looks" like an Alpine car.... Here are a few more... http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/fun/
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (02csnow)

Post by Sublimewind »

Quote, originally posted by 02csnow »I went through about 100 pages and saw some hilarious things. But some things that stood out and I dont know why people posted them. The White Honda S2000, the Yellow Ferarri 350, and the Black Subaru 2.5RS with CF hood.It just goes to show, how ones definition of RICE, is anothers definition of BUTTER...
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Sublimewind)

Post by tcam »

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »Someone doesnt have to have a top of the line to have respect. I've seen many clean looking rides that may not be the fastest on the block, but they did it right and tastefully. You saying that we rag on them cause we don't consider it a nice car is kinda to me like driving down the street and seeing all nice normal well kept houses, then seeing a hot pink trailer on a lawn with 3 cars on blocks, rusted equipment in front and overgrown everything, and saying, oh well thats still ok cause he has somewhere to live. I just don't see it. It's not hard to give some effort to upkeep and proper care/maintenance and style. Heck me and my fience live at Target (Tar-jaaay) which is cheap but trendy and stylish, no need for Pottery Barn everyday.Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »since you are replying to me, i will assume you are talking to me or about my post. if so, then where at does it say you must have a NICE car??? no, not anywhere. i said for ANY VEHICLE, regardless of what brand, make, model, etc. i've seen some VERY nicely done cars that i don't consider top quality, but the owner did a clean job. the car doesn't have to be super fast as i stated earlier, nor does a lot of money or work have to be input to make it look good. the question and title of this thread isn't about NICE cars and if you think they are or not. the OP asks how YOU would define what is rice (implying that is a personal opinion, just like the people who own the cars someone else may view as rice).i've seen some basic clean looking vibes here with minimal mods but look quite nice. take a look at Savedbyzero's vibe gt. it's not gaudy or flashy, but nice, clean, refreshing. IMO (NOTE: IN MY OPINION) it is one of the best looking Vibes on this forum. would i consider my old 03 Vibe GT riced out?? yes! that is why i had plates that said Rice Rocket (RIZRKT). i had the GM top wing, springs, fugly OEM 17's, riced out interior (leather with red inserts, red painted interior, lights, pedals, etc), funky tribal side graphics, etc. but i still liked it and had fun with the rice. however, i did not have unpainted body parts or some half hanging body kit on the car. again, i do not see anywhere at all, where someone says you must have an expensive or "nice" car. there were even corvettes that were posted as RICE. oooo sry guys, I had not intended for that comment to be towards you guys at all. It was more just a general statement and also to some of the comments left on that other site. I'll admit that I point out ricey cars to my friends all the time, but I would never personally make fun of someone for simply trying to modify their car and have fun with it. Which is what a lot of the members on that other forum seemed to be doing.My personal defination of Rice: Any car that is made to look like a super fast race car, when in reality it's slower than anything on the road.
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (tcam)

Post by Whelan »

No offense taken, I dont pull up next to these kids and laugh, they obviously spent some time workin on what they did, but I will talk about them with my windows closed.
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Re: Rice this, rice that, how do you define it...?? (Whelan)

Post by 02csnow »

My definition of rice:Not rice - clean ( tuner car )Rice - not clean ( rice car )There are just times you can tell when a car has that clean look to it. I actually have a co-worker that thought my car was rice. That is until I explained to him what I thought was the difference between a rice car and a tuner car. After that he looked at my car again and changed his thoughts on the whole thing with the cars now-a-days. So now every so often he likes to point out what he thinks is rice and what he thinks is a tuner.
Bye Bye Vibe.............
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Post by AKLGT »

very good point. there are differences between tuner and ricer. tuner is an enthusiast who has a color scheme or theme to the car itself, while ricer's tend to throw on just about anything with the "bigger is better" theory. sometimes, less is more.
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Whelan
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Re: (AKLGT)

Post by Whelan »

Coming Soon From China...MORE RICE!!!!!
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by ajflan »

Wow. That is just horrible.
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by ColonelPanic »

Holy molested 1.5 gen Tiburon, Batman! It isn't rice to me though, that's more like put down the crack pipe!
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Re: (ColonelPanic)

Post by kevera »

Here is a couple more fine gems,
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Re: (kevera)

Post by ColonelPanic »

Great stuff!!! I that Metro, he's really piping in a (removed) load of air into that 3-cyl! I need to get a pic of this Metro that I saw in the complex the other day - beat to hell, steelies with no wheel covers and, last but not least: A HUGE metal wing on the roof that sticks out on both sides of the car. It's fricken nuts!
03 Vibe base. Born 10/14/2002 06:07 AM
Auto, Moon & Tunes, power package. 143k
Neptune/dying clearcoat/primer grey. :lol:

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'21 Elantra Limited - 2.0L/IVT
'15 Escape SE - 1.6L EcoBoost (hers)
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Whelan
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Re: (ColonelPanic)

Post by Whelan »

FYI that metro is using a painted over piece of ductwork. That is the part used to go through the floor where the vents are placed, (removed), I've heard of using HD gutter guard for mesh, which I did very well I might add when it was painted silver. But this is insane
2012 GLI Autobahn 6MT
02csnow
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by 02csnow »

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »Coming Soon From China...MORE RICE!!!!! It's a slinky!
Bye Bye Vibe.............
Whelan
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Re: (02csnow)

Post by Whelan »

Looks like some kind of hybrid almost. Cause if you look at the front part of that accordian it is almost hinged. So if you had to store more stuff or bigger people in the back or something, it expands so you can hold more. But then how do you see out your back.
2012 GLI Autobahn 6MT
GrayFox
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by GrayFox »

Wow all your friends! Be the first (and probly only) person in your car club with one of these! Just pop the hatch and jam out to your favorite polka music with the tiburon's new acordian attachment
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ColonelPanic
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Re: (Whelan)

Post by ColonelPanic »

Quote, originally posted by Whelan »FYI that metro is using a painted over piece of ductwork. That is the part used to go through the floor where the vents are placed, (removed), I've heard of using HD gutter guard for mesh, which I did very well I might add when it was painted silver. But this is insaneWhile we're talking home improvement, a guy at work has a Escort with a shop vac floor attachment screwed to bottom center of the front bumper with a vacuum hose going up to his intake.
03 Vibe base. Born 10/14/2002 06:07 AM
Auto, Moon & Tunes, power package. 143k
Neptune/dying clearcoat/primer grey. :lol:

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'21 Elantra Limited - 2.0L/IVT
'15 Escape SE - 1.6L EcoBoost (hers)
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CountryVibe
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Re: (ColonelPanic)

Post by CountryVibe »

here is one no front bumper
2005 GTmoons & tunes, keyhole covers, SRI,2.5" borla catback exhaust, seatbelt beep deletedWagons Rule.......Sedans Drool
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ColonelPanic
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Re: (CountryVibe)

Post by ColonelPanic »

Yes! That's the exact spoiler that's mounted atop the Metro I mentioned a couple posts back. Looks great!
03 Vibe base. Born 10/14/2002 06:07 AM
Auto, Moon & Tunes, power package. 143k
Neptune/dying clearcoat/primer grey. :lol:

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'21 Elantra Limited - 2.0L/IVT
'15 Escape SE - 1.6L EcoBoost (hers)
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AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

WOW! that's a nice shopping cart handle!
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
WaveAction
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Post by WaveAction »

im proud to say i havent fell into any of those categories..unless you count my ghetto old sunfire interior..which i changed lol
AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

i really want to get one of those fake sunroofs... just because. LOL
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
MRCN RCE
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:14 pm

Post by MRCN RCE »

saw this by my house:rice, or just plain stupidity?? you be the judge...
GENVIBE: THE PLACE WHERE ALL THE COOL KIDS HANG OUT05 GTK&N SRI, exedy clutch, fidanza flywheel, Neo-GensLIFT: the equivalent of viagra for your tach n speedomy garagehttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=24931
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