Asian concentrate coolant

Discuss any maintenance you've done to your Vibe & Matrix and ask how to perform maintenance on your vehicle
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Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

As I do complete flush-and-fills on my radiator and cooling system, I _must_ have concentrate to add to the water in the system after flushing.

Unfortunately, it appears that everyone only wants to sell "Pre-diluted" and "Ready to use", assuming (probably mostly correctly) that people are morons and would NEVER want to increase or decrease the concentration.

Zerex? Pre-diluted. Pentosin? Pre-diluted for the pink stuff. Everyone else? Pre-diluted, or Universal.

Anyone had experience just using a universal coolant in the Vibe?

Toyota just has coolant 00272-1LLAC-01 (for $40 or so) No information on it being concentrate or not, but it's Lexus/Toyota "red".

So, any suggestions other than the hour+ that I've spent searching car part sites?

(edit - there is a Recochem OEM 86-174POEM on Amazon, which is a Pink Toyota/Lexus concentrate)
Jbenrod
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:58 am

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Jbenrod »

I've spent a lot of time reviewing coolant formulations over the years and have elected to use the Zerex G05 in all of my vehicles for the past decade. It's a HOAT formula that I usually purchase in the month of October when NAPA stores often have it on sale at around $14 / gallon for the full strength concentrate version. I'm sure their Asian formula would be an excellant choice as well but it was not available when I switched all of my vehicles to G05 years ago.

It seems that Zerex is one of the few companies that publishes the results of the ASTM Corrosion Test and their numbers are outstanding for all metals. I always wonder why other coolant manufactures don't seem to publish their data? You can review it all yourself and decide if it works for your application at their web site or this link for the G05:


https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/D ... 162d889bd1
2005 Base - 220k
Bookworm
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

G05? I'll see if that's locally available in concentrate.

Frankly, I know I could even drain and fill with straight green stuff - the full flush is important, but I wanted to _not_ completely mess things up :)
jolt
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by jolt »

Here is a quick read about the coolant without going into a big read into details of coolant: https://parts.olathetoyota.com/blog/ult ... lor-guide/

Also on topic with this thread, is this thread that was started Dec. 5th: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47270
Bookworm
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

jolt wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 pm Here is a quick read about the coolant without going into a big read into details of coolant: https://parts.olathetoyota.com/blog/ult ... lor-guide/

Also on topic with this thread, is this thread that was started Dec. 5th: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47270
Yes, I'm _well_ aware of all of the various versions of coolant, phosphated vs non, silicated vs non, edta tetrasodium salts, and so forth.

The problem is that I've only found one company making a "Pink" concentrate, which is Recochem, and apparently I'll have to order that. As I said, using the 50/50 prediluted isn't an option since I'm going to be doing a full distilled water flush. The thread before simply ended with "Use the Toyota Pink Stuff" - which is diluted.

So, if I can't find (reasonably locally) a concentrate of "Pink Stuff", I'll have to use something else, and just change the fluids every three or four years. No big deal.

[Edit] - I can find the Toyota _Red_ in concentrate, but no definitive information on if it's forward compatible.
jolt
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by jolt »

Test the pH of the coolant and that will tell you of the coolant needs to be changed. New coolant will be around 8.5 pH and as the additives in the coolant get used up the pH will drop. If the pH is below 7.5, then change it. Until you hit the 7.5 pH range, your still protected by the additives in the antifreeze. Freeze protection is not the job of the additives, hence the pH test vs the density test for freeze protection.
Bookworm
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Location: Houston, TX

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

I can guarantee I need to change it. 175k on the clock.

I'm just trying to find the best replacement concentrate.

I can get Beck/Arnley red concentrate easily enough, which has the phosphated OAT that Toyota uses, but I can't find if it's really forward compatible or not.
Bookworm
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

I've spent FAR too much time reading manufacturer's sites, hobbyist sites, and everything else out there.

It appears that FL22, which is what is specified by Mazda, is basically the same thing that Toyota uses, but in a different colour. (Green vs Pink).

So, I can use Motorcraft "Speciality Green" - VC10A2

It's a concentrate. By doing that, I can use it in both our Mazda and my Vibe. I can also use Beck/Arnley Green, which appears to be the same P-OAT that's needed by the Vibe/Matrix.
jolt
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by jolt »

Hi Bookworm,

As you have found out, the color of the anti-freeze means nothing really as each manufacture colors the anti-freeze as they like. I use Peak Global Lifetime anti-freeze that I get at Menards on sale for $4.99 or less a gallon. It is the 50/50 pre-mixed but I figure I would have to buy distilled water if I used the concentrate so the cost is not that bad as I only need 2 gallons for a coolant change. So for around $10.00 total, I have my coolant changed out. I do not change coolant very much as I watch the pH of the coolant. I find that I only change anti-freeze when I replace a thermostat or hose. I have the coolant drained anyways so I replace the anti-freeze at that time. In the winter I want the car heating up, which also effects gas mileage, so thermostats have to be in top shape.

I know you were not looking for premixed anti-freeze which is why I did not bring this up before. Yes, it is not exactly the same as the Toyota anti-freeze but it will last the life of the vehicle for me as the car will rust away from the road salt up here way before the anti-freeze can cause any harm. A person has to look at the big pictures, as I know you do from reading your other post here, and in the end of it all a person try's to make the best choice for their situation. It is like asking which is the best motor oil, they all have their plus's and minus's to them. So what is the best for you and your situation, and really only you can answer that.
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

I ended up buying Beck-Arnley - it turns out that Ford has reformulated to remove the phosphate - another victim of eco-nut stupidity, probably. (misunderstanding of the bio-availability of non-fertilizer oriented phosphated compounds).

So, I picked up bottles from Pep Boys (where I try to never spend money), and picked up P-OAT for my wife's Mazda and my Vibe.
SSizler
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Location: Urbandale, Iowa

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by SSizler »

Hello Bookworm,
I am like you and prefer to use concentrate and add my own distilled water.
Your research looks thorough, however, I don't have a retailer that sells the Beck/Arnley red concentrate near me.
My retailers are NAPA, Advance Auto, O'Reileys or Auto Zone.
Did you have a 2nd choice on your list?
2003 Vibe Base / Frosty Mono / Moon & Tunes / Auto / 206k mi / Total Loss 1-23
2006 Vibe AWD / Lava Mono / Loaded w/Leather and Sport Pkg / 150k mi
Many other 2 & 4 wheel toys :mrgreen:
40 years with a wonderful woman / 2 adult kids
Bookworm
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

The key seems to be _Phosphated_ coolant. So, no Pep Boys near by? That's where I got the Beck Arnley.

Red vs Pink seems to mostly be 'short life' vs 'long life', and otherwise are both phosphated - with pink never being offered as a concentrate. So if you're willing to just change the fluid every 3 years or so, Pentosin's Pentofrost A1 is probably just fine. (It's supposed to be an extended long life, as well. I just checked).

It's supposed to be for Toyota's up to 2004, then pink after that - but our engines didn't change between 2003 and 2008.

Advance Auto sells Pentosin.
SSizler
Posts: 144
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Location: Urbandale, Iowa

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by SSizler »

Nope, no Pep Boys in my area.
I did check my shelf and found these:
Image
I purchased the Toyota bottle for my Tundra.
The Zerex was for an old Caravan I had.
I suppose I cold go back to the Toyota dealer to get more. ;)
2003 Vibe Base / Frosty Mono / Moon & Tunes / Auto / 206k mi / Total Loss 1-23
2006 Vibe AWD / Lava Mono / Loaded w/Leather and Sport Pkg / 150k mi
Many other 2 & 4 wheel toys :mrgreen:
40 years with a wonderful woman / 2 adult kids
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by Bookworm »

That Toyota red should work fine, from everything I've found.

I'd rather keep the phosphated coolant in the Vibe, rather than just go with a H-OAT without phosphates.
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ColonelPanic
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Re: Asian concentrate coolant

Post by ColonelPanic »

Yes, that Toyota Red will perfectly fine for SSizler's '03. That's all I've ever ran in the Vibe.

Didn't feel like going to the dealer this time, so...
20200205_171652 - Edited.jpg
20200205_171652 - Edited.jpg (553.66 KiB) Viewed 2131 times
Found the Pentosin to be reasonably priced at Advance Auto compared to what I remember paying for the red at the dealer.
03 Vibe base. Born 10/14/2002 06:07 AM
Auto, Moon & Tunes, power package. 143k
Neptune/dying clearcoat/primer grey. :lol:

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'21 Elantra Limited - 2.0L/IVT
'15 Escape SE - 1.6L EcoBoost (hers)
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