Front passenger caliper locking up

Discuss any maintenance you've done to your Vibe & Matrix and ask how to perform maintenance on your vehicle
Post Reply
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

I have a 2005 Vibe with ABS. The front passenger caliper has been locking up and not releasing. I have been searching the internet and this seems to be a problem for several others and it is always the front passenger caliper. I have replaced the front calipers (twice), new pads, new rotors, new brake hose, tomorrow I will be replacing the master cylinder. When the caliper locks up, if I crack open the brake line to relieve the pressure anywhere between the master cylinder and the passenger caliper the caliper releases. I have been going down the same path as many other have said they have with this issue to no avail. Has anyone else experienced this issue and able to correct it?
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Bookworm »

Talon830 wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:36 pm I have a 2005 Vibe with ABS. The front passenger caliper has been locking up and not releasing. I have been searching the internet and this seems to be a problem for several others and it is always the front passenger caliper. I have replaced the front calipers (twice), new pads, new rotors, new brake hose, tomorrow I will be replacing the master cylinder. When the caliper locks up, if I crack open the brake line to relieve the pressure anywhere between the master cylinder and the passenger caliper the caliper releases. I have been going down the same path as many other have said they have with this issue to no avail. Has anyone else experienced this issue and able to correct it?
If you can relieve the pressure between the MBC and the brake itself, and the brake releases, then that seems to point to the MBC itself. Like a valve has gone one-way.

I've never really researched the ABS systems other than to know that I don't like what mine does, but the pulse-release function on yours sounds like it's gone to pulse-norelease.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by zbyers »

Welcome to GV. Depending on your location (we love that info, btw), these calipers are a kinda poor design and always freeze up. My '03 GT has been OK for almost a year now, but I think i was replacing them every 8 months or so. They build up a lot of corrosion here in PA, so I'm blaming that.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

Bookworm wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:28 pm If you can relieve the pressure between the MBC and the brake itself, and the brake releases, then tMhat seems to point to the MBC itself. Like a valve has gone one-way.

I've never really researched the ABS systems other than to know that I don't like what mine does, but the pulse-release function on yours sounds like it's gone to pulse-norelease.
Yes, I have relieved the pressure right at the MBC. I replaced the MBC last night, so I am hopeful that it will fix the problem.
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

zbyers wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:31 am Welcome to GV. Depending on your location (we love that info, btw), these calipers are a kinda poor design and always freeze up. My '03 GT has been OK for almost a year now, but I think i was replacing them every 8 months or so. They build up a lot of corrosion here in PA, so I'm blaming that.
Thank you, I live in Northern Indiana / Southern Michigan, right on the state line actually. During my research of this problem online I have found numerous people talking about one front caliper locking up and it is always the passenger one that locks up. This problem has occurred with ABS and non ABS brake systems, so I am inclined to guess that the issue isn't caused by the ABS. I have replaced the caliper twice in the past 4 months. I am hoping to come across someone who has come up with a solution to this problem. So far every thread online that I have found in regards to this problem just ends without a solution being posted.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by zbyers »

How many miles does the car have on it? Many times the rubber boot over the slide pins of the caliper gets unseated during removal/install, and then allows dirt and such to get into it. That's typically what causes these calipers to seize up. Rebuilt/remanned calipers from box stores always end up having some sort of issue. The next most common, is the typical rubber hose collapsing on itself. Replacement of that hose generally solves it. Have you tried replacing all of the brake fluid via bleeding all 4 corners? Outside of those, there really isn't much to the brake system. Unless moisture somehow got into the lines and corroded the ABS module, master cylinder, etc. I really don't think that would be the cause. Many are well over 300k miles without having to mess with either of those.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

zbyers wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:54 am How many miles does the car have on it? Many times the rubber boot over the slide pins of the caliper gets unseated during removal/install, and then allows dirt and such to get into it. That's typically what causes these calipers to seize up. Rebuilt/remanned calipers from box stores always end up having some sort of issue. The next most common, is the typical rubber hose collapsing on itself. Replacement of that hose generally solves it. Have you tried replacing all of the brake fluid via bleeding all 4 corners? Outside of those, there really isn't much to the brake system. Unless moisture somehow got into the lines and corroded the ABS module, master cylinder, etc. I really don't think that would be the cause. Many are well over 300k miles without having to mess with either of those.
It has 181k miles. I have removed both slide pins and cleaned them (the only thing on them was grease, since the caliper was only two weeks old at that point) and added new grease to the pins and reinstalled the boots on the pins. I just bought two quarts of brake fluid and plan on flushing the whole system. In total within the last 4 months I have replaced both calipers and pads. The front passenger has had two new calipers in the past 4 months. I have replaced the hose to the caliper. Most recently I replaced the master cylinder. I just replaced the master cylinder last night, so the caliper hasn't siezed up yet.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by zbyers »

Keep us posted! Let's hope the MC resolved your issue.

How do the brakes feel overall? Spongey? Stop pretty darn good? Does it pull one way or the other when braking?
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

zbyers wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:43 am Keep us posted! Let's hope the MC resolved your issue.

How do the brakes feel overall? Spongey? Stop pretty darn good? Does it pull one way or the other when braking?
Brakes feel good overall until the one caliper starts dragging and eventually locks up.
User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by vibrologist »

Chiming in here even though I have not taken a Vibe front brake apart. However I did so on a Mazda Protege. In the Protege the lower slide pin is placed inside a rubber sleeve that goes all the way through the hole in the caliper. The upper slide pin has individual rubber boots on either side of the hole. Here is what happened at the lower slide: there was rust on the caliper that pushed against the rubber and that rubber pushed against the slide pin which kept the caliper from releasing. The solution was not only to grease the slide pin but to remove the rubber sleeve and remove the rust from the hole. I did this with sand paper. If I have to do it again I will use a drill of the appropriate size.

It is not enough to clean and grease. Make sure you can slide the caliper EASILY with your hands from stop to stop. If it doesn't have a good look at the slide pin bore.
While you are at it: there may be tiny stainless steel shims at the pads. There could be rust under them and keep the pads from returning even though the piston retracts just fine. I used a file to remove the rust at these places.

And here is an experience with a Hyundai Sonata brake: it too did not release. The reason was that the pads were jammed so tight in the carrier (bracket) that they could not move. I had to chip away some material from the carrier (or from the appropriate place on the pad's base) to give them just a tiny little bit of play.
pad carrier.jpg
pad carrier.jpg (4.97 KiB) Viewed 2214 times
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

vibrologist wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:06 pm Chiming in here even though I have not taken a Vibe front brake apart. However I did so on a Mazda Protege. In the Protege the lower slide pin is placed inside a rubber sleeve that goes all the way through the hole in the caliper. The upper slide pin has individual rubber boots on either side of the hole. Here is what happened at the lower slide: there was rust on the caliper that pushed against the rubber and that rubber pushed against the slide pin which kept the caliper from releasing. The solution was not only to grease the slide pin but to remove the rubber sleeve and remove the rust from the hole. I did this with sand paper. If I have to do it again I will use a drill of the appropriate size.

It is not enough to clean and grease. Make sure you can slide the caliper EASILY with your hands from stop to stop. If it doesn't have a good look at the slide pin bore.
While you are at it: there may be tiny stainless steel shims at the pads. There could be rust under them and keep the pads from returning even though the piston retracts just fine. I used a file to remove the rust at these places.

And here is an experience with a Hyundai Sonata brake: it too did not release. The reason was that the pads were jammed so tight in the carrier (bracket) that they could not move. I had to chip away some material from the carrier (or from the appropriate place on the pad's base) to give them just a tiny little bit of play.
pad carrier.jpg
I have discovered the issue with the caliper seizing up have nothing to do with the caliper itself. I can always get the caliper to release by cracking open the brake line anywhere.
User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by vibrologist »

I have discovered the issue with the caliper seizing up have nothing to do with the caliper itself. I can always get the caliper to release by cracking open the brake line anywhere.
You make a good point. But I am not 100% convinced by that. Diagnostics can come up a false positive or a false negative. The caliper drags, heats up the fluid and the heat expansion seizes the caliper. You stop, open the line somewhere and it releases. Well, since you stopped the temp was going down a few minutes already. I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying there is a tiny chance of this happening.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Bookworm »

vibrologist wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:57 pm
I have discovered the issue with the caliper seizing up have nothing to do with the caliper itself. I can always get the caliper to release by cracking open the brake line anywhere.
You make a good point. But I am not 100% convinced by that. Diagnostics can come up a false positive or a false negative. The caliper drags, heats up the fluid and the heat expansion seizes the caliper. You stop, open the line somewhere and it releases. Well, since you stopped the temp was going down a few minutes already. I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying there is a tiny chance of this happening.
That tiny chance isn't much of one. I would have been slightly more diplomatic and said that the information is for other people searching for the same problem.
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

vibrologist wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:57 pm
I have discovered the issue with the caliper seizing up have nothing to do with the caliper itself. I can always get the caliper to release by cracking open the brake line anywhere.
You make a good point. But I am not 100% convinced by that. Diagnostics can come up a false positive or a false negative. The caliper drags, heats up the fluid and the heat expansion seizes the caliper. You stop, open the line somewhere and it releases. Well, since you stopped the temp was going down a few minutes already. I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying there is a tiny chance of this happening.
Very true. At this point with it I totally confused by what is causing it. I changed the MC yesterday and flushed all 4 brakes with a total of 1.5 quarts of brake fluid. Plus I flushed a little extra through the problem calioer. So far two days and no problems. Keeping my fingers crossed.
User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by vibrologist »

You most likely fixed it. Kudos! As it works now there is little use to speculate on what caused the problem.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476
Talon830
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Talon830 »

It has been a month now since I replaced the MC and flushed all the lines. The problem hasn't occurred again.
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Front passenger caliper locking up

Post by Bookworm »

Great! When it comes down to it, that's all we can really hope for.
Post Reply