Pontiac dealer wanted $15.95 for.......

[Chazb]

A freakin oil filter for the base vibe.That is pure theft and they should beashamed of themselve's.I went to toyota and bought one for 5.95.You would think pontiac would care more than that!

[NovaResource]

AC Delco Filter: PF1233 at Pep-Boys will be cheaper still.

[MA-VIBE-FAN]

quote:A freakin oil filter for the base vibe.That is pure theft and they should beashamed of themselve's.I went to toyota and bought one for 5.95.You would think pontiac would care more than that!I not familar with "freakin oil", should it be changed when the engine oil is?

[Cubanpete]

I bought the Long Filter from toyota for the GT/XRS models for 7.00 Canadian!

[PBFlash]

Pontiac charges an extra $10 for wrapping the Toyota filter with their name. Pretty sad. As soon as I bought my car I went to a Toyota dealer and bought 5 filters for the Matrix XRS.

[Lorin]

My local Toyota dealer sells the filters for $5 even. The best part is he is right accross the street from where I work, so I pick up all the Toyota parts my Pontiac needs during my lunch hour.

[cds22]

I just had my oil changed at the dealer and they charged $23.64 CAD for the filter! (the list price was a whopping $29.55!!!). This is in Edmonton, Alberta. That's the last time I'll take my Vibe to the dealer for an oil change. The only reason I took it there was because there were some other warranty issues I wanted checked out but I won't do that again.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

I had the same problem with my dealer.They changed me $29,95 for the filter only!!Check my topic: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=2436Finally my dealer gave me a credit and told me the mecanic picked up the Toyota filtter at 29,95 instead of the Delco one at $7,95.I called a Toyota dealer and the price for the Matrix and Matrix XR is $6.Anyways I told me dealer he cannot change me $62 for an oil change. At the beginning, the service guy give you a quote. I sing up for an oil change at $29,95 and I fight until they give me a credit.If I have other trouble with this, I'll pick up a filter at the nearest Toyota dealer and bring it to my dealer, and put the Toyota bill in his face!!!

[esjones]

When I did my first oil change, I used a Fram filter from K-Mart for about US$3.00. The OEM filter I took off the car (branded Toyota, but made by Denso) looked like it was a much better filter. OK... I was just looking at the top with all the holes, but there was a heavier piece of metal there with various diameter holes in it, where the Fram just seemed more flimsy with fewer holes. I have no idea about the relative merits of the filter media within.Does anyone know for sure that the AC-Delco filter is also made by Denso?-Earl

[Herb]

quote:When I did my first oil change, I used a Fram filter from K-Mart for about US$3.00. If you really care about your Vibe or any other vehicle you own or will own, please stop using Fram filters.Read up on some in depth reviews on some oil filters attached. You'll find it quite informative.

Attached files OilFilterStudy.pdf (545.7 KB) 

[esjones]

THANKS! I'll stop buying Fram immediately!!

[d_m_kolb]

We all know I back AMSOIL products but I personally feel Amsoil's Super Duty filter is by far the best made.http://www.twocom.com/high_performance_ ... ty_filters

[mike_co_plays]

I was told that the Vibe has a "special" oil filter that was a full $10 Canadian more than the average "Sunfire" filter. I thought that was odd. I went to a local 15min lube place and they looked in their books. There was no indication that a special filter was needed. WHO'S NOT TELLING THE TRUTH????

[ColonelPanic]

I can't believe how much some dealers are charging for this thing... I've dealt with my share of sleazy dealerships, so this really doesn't surprise me. I searched the larger local auto stores (Advance Auto, Pep Boys, and AutoZone) and nobody had an AC Delco filter for the Vibe. They all carried other brands that would work, but I wanted to stick with AC Delco. Went to my dealer's parts department, picked them up for $5 each. I thought that wsan't bad, it wasn't that much more than I've paid for AC Delco filters from the auto stores in the past.I see nothing special about the AC filter that would warrant a dealer charging that much... Doesn't really look or appear to be constructed that much different than other AC Delco filters. Only difference I see when comparing to AC filters I've used before is the Vibe's is a heckuva lot smaller. I normally change my own oil, but I get free tire rotations every 6,000 miles from the dealership as long as I own the car. So, I figure I'll do one every 3,000, and have the dealer do one every 6,000. Had them change oil in it last week. Since I wasn't crazy about changing brands of oil every other change (I'lI use Pennzoil, they'll use whatever) I supplied them with four quarts of my own oil. Oil change, new filter and all for $12.

[Lorin]

I think all this trouble we're hearing about filters is a harbinger (forewarning) of trouble we can expect when something breaks that isn't covered under warranty. A personal example I reported on elsewhere was when I broke a vacuum switch while installing my CAI. Went to the Pontiac dealer and they said "they couldn't git none them thar Toyo parts". great.

[Bdaz1]

STP PF4967 for $3.00 at AutoZone.

[engine1]

People it doesnt matter whose filter you use a long long as you change it often. I work for an auto parts wholesaler and have my loyaltys, but when it comes to filters no filter works when it is clogged with sludge from oil that hasn't been changed in two or three years. I use an expensive filter with a high volume of filter media and full synthetic oil, I change it every 5000km and have done three on my car now costing 54 bucks and change every time, that includes 8 bucks for one of my good accounts to do the dirty work after i bring the parts.What most people don't realize is that there are a very few companys that produce filters and thay can put a lot of different paint jobs and parts in to them, you would be might be suprised to find out who makes your favorite!

[Frosty]

quote:People it doesnt matter whose filter you use a long long as you change it often....... !Does your recommendation include the FRAM? See http://forums.genvibe.com/zerofile/594/ ... rStudy.pdf I am personally scared off.

[d_m_kolb]

Just so everyone know Amsoil make their own filters on their facility in WI.On the comment that it doesn't matter what filter you use as long as it's changed every 3,000 miles is in my opinion crazy. I'd much rather use a filter that has been proven to filter in the 10 micron range than one that is shown to filter in the 20 micron range. The larger the micron of dirt or metal floating around in your oil the more wear will accrue inside your engine.Also if your using synthetic it isn't nessisary to change your oil every 5,000 miles. You can go much further than this and this goes for any synthetic not just Amsoil. Oil analysis is the safest way of knowing when you need to change your oil.

[engine1]

Fram has a 96 percent S.P.E.(single pass efectivness) at the 10 micron level and a 93 M.P.E.(multi pass effectivness) at the 20 micron level! Like I said I have my loyaltys and I visit mechanics and dealers everyday as a salesman I know what is B.S. and I know what works in real life. I'm not saying I am an expert but I hate it when obvious dealers of competing products will put down the competition rather than explaining the features and benefits of their own. Think about it Fram must be doing something right when it is everyones first choice to bash when they choose a filter other than the orange one. BTW Fram is an OEM supplier to Caterpillar, Cummins, GM, Ford, Dodge, Mack, Detroit Deisel, Toyota, Honda, Onan, just about anywhere there is a filter be it fuel, coolant, oil, air and they are all guaranteed. If Amsoil filter media is so good why don't they expand the line to included all manner of fluid filtering? You are why I stay in buisness go ahead go 30,000 miles on that oil change, i'll have a set of main bearings waiting for you! Spend a little now or spend a lot later!

[d_m_kolb]

Prove that FRAM is as good as you say it is. I have seen testing results and testing results have been posted on genvibe.com that shows FRAM is by far one of the worst filters you could passably put on a engine. It is no where near anywhere near the numbers you stated. Everyone bashes Fram because it's a poorly made poor performing filter. You said FRAM is a OEM supplier for several auto and industrial manufacturers. This mean absolutely nothing. You honestly believe that any of these manufacturers wants your equipment to last? No none do. Think about it if company's made things to last they wouldn't make as much money. They want you to buy a new vehicle every 3 to 5 years. If you don't they lose money. It's all about money. Do you think the big oil companies that push the 3,000 mile oil change hard want you to extend your oil changes? Hell no. Look what that would do to their wallets.As for extended oil changes this is another prime example of a mechanic that has bought into the big oil company scam that you need to do oil changes every 3,000 miles or you'll have engine trouble.So then since you feel this way how do you explain the same cars we drive here in the U.S. are driven 12,000 miles between oil changes in Europe? Yes 12,000 miles on conventional oil and it's recommended in the GM, Ford and Dodge owners manuals to do this mileage. They are trying to get the mileage raised to 18.000! Hmmm still think the 25,000 to 35,000 mile oil change intervals Amsoil has recommended for 30 YEARS is still a lie?Explain how new Tractor Trailers are recommending 50,000 mile oil change intervals? Come on if extended oil changes can't be done I'm sure you can explain this.http://www.performancemotoroil.com/big_ ... nges.htmSo if it is a lie and you really can't go this long on oil changes how is it that a company can stay in business for 30 years and recommend 25,000 mile oil changes since 1972 still be in business. Wouldn't you think the FTC would have shut down a company that made such false claims as you say. Guess what the FTC has never fined or harassed Amsoil Inc once in 30 years. If you contact the BBB (Better Business Bureau) They also don't have anything listed for Amsoil. I wonder why? Maybe it's because their claims are true and no one can prove different.What about a few years ago when Amsoil Inc applied for trademark rights to "The First in Synthetics" Every other oil company in the world was given the chance to object, yet after 90 days of waiting, not a single one objected! The U.S. Patent and Trademark Officials stated that by claiming that AMSOIL was the first historically, that AMSOIL was also insinuating to be the best (or #1/first) from a quality or performance standpoint. AMSOIL showed the government officials comparison documentation and test data backing up the claim that AMSOIL was also the best.After the government officials notified all other oil manufacturers that AMSOIL was claiming to be the best, not a single other oil company or competitor objected! Not a peep from any of them! I can guarantee you that if any of these competitors and major oil companies had a product better than AMSOIL they would have objected.Amsoil has gone as far as to even list tests they have run on other oil company's oils and it's listed on every single quart of oil Amsoil sells. If these results that show Amsoil as be superior to these other oils was false Amsoil would be sued for false claims and probably shut down.They list Pennzoil, Castrol, Quaker State, Mobil and not one of these companies says a word. Why you ask? Because it's true.Oh I love this part. I'm the kind of person that keeps you in business. Well I do 35,000 mile oil changes using Amsoil so you go a head and keep your main bearing because I wont be needing them. The oil analysis I just had done on my oil at 12,500 miles says I'm good to go and there is no need to change the oil yet. That using a Amsoil Super Duty oil filter and leaving it in for 12,500 miles. You trust your FRAM to perform that long? No Hmmm I can't imagine why. Looks like you'll probably end up hating Amsoil because it will be keeping a lot of cars on the roads longer and out of garages.

[Lorin]

Oh no! Here we go! I need to get to work and put together that oil filter comparison post I started on a couple months ago. It is true that there are not nearly as many mfg's as there are "brands" of filters. It is also somewhat (ie mostly but not totally) true that if you change your oil frequently enough the quality of the filter becomes a bit less important. This is because you are continually flushing the accumulated poc's (products of combustion) etc. out when you drain the oil. I change the oil often in my lawn and garden equipment because some have no filter at all. But, that's getting slightly off the point....and besides, who wants anything but the cleanest possible oil running through any of their engines? Regardless of whether I take the 3K, 5K, 10K or longer approach between changes, I want a DARN GOOD filter. ( I didn't say "Best" because there can only be one of best, and that can be debated. ). Key design elements of a filter:a) filter capture efficiency at a given size or sizesb) filter capacity ( realted to how much total media / pleats u have and size of the filter)c) pressure required before bypass mode ( which translates to how high an rpm you can run b4 bypass mode and no filtration )d) location of the bypass valve. Some filters have it at the top (open end) of the filter, which is good, and others have it at the bottom (closed end = bad). You want the bypass valve at the open end of the filter so when bypass mode happens, you don't wash dirty oil back out of the filter. e) structural strength and integrity. I've seen complaints of crushing or falling apart when people go to remove some of the cheaper filters. Wix seemed to be especially bad in this respect, and my personal experience agrees. (I only bought one of those pieces of junk for my Mazda). Getting numbers for all those items so you can make a decision based on actual data is a challenge.From my reading, Fram, STP, Deutch (spelling? ) the $2-$3 filters are, well, you get what you pay for. I think PureOne fall in this group as well, but I'm going by memory here.There are a number that fall in between bottom of the line and top of the line.Mobil 1 seems to be one of the best overall, with one of the highest capture efficiency. The amsoil filter looks pretty good, but what I am reading indicates the bypass valve is in the bottom end of the filter. Maybe you could comment on if that is true Derek? Toyota OEM is good - just read their brouchure! K&N is made by the same folks as Mobil 1, but uses a slightly different media, which makes it better for higher rpm's because of ability to handle higher flows before bypass (its what I'm using in my 5.7L chevy because of high speed, LONG road trips). My personal 1st choice would be Mobil 1's filter, but I can't find any source to buy them, either local or on the web. Absent that, Toyota OEM is what I'm using. If you wanna go with a cheepie, then change your oil more often to help get rid of what the filter doesn't capture.One final comment here that is sure to generate a rise from some folks: A dirty filter will have a higher capture efficiency than a brand new filter. This is because the particles already captured help fill the larger voids in the filter, leaving behind smaller and smaller voids. This is the same principal that is used in airbag filters for air pollution control. BUT...take it to extreme with your oil filter and the filter goes to bypass mode and you get NO filtration.

[d_m_kolb]

One my website I have a cut through of a Amsoil Super Duty filter that will answer your question. I also have several charts of other oil filters as well.http://www.performancemotoroil.com/Super_duty_filters

[ColonelPanic]

I see nothing but the HTML's source when I go to the last link you posted...

[d_m_kolb]

It works. Try again.

[ColonelPanic]

Wierd... I think it hates Linux. I've tried it four different browsers, all show the source.The other pages on your site seem to render correctly though. I could probably see it if I had MSIE, but I don't have any Windows boxes here.

[engine1]

Prove that FRAM is as good as you say it is. Its pretty obvious that you know very little about your competition seeing that these test results are on the side of every Fram filter box.Which is from an Industry standard S.A.E.(Society of Automotive Engineers) test, which btw ALL filters are tested and rated by except Amsoil and other media who will not put their product up to the challenge. Why don't they? These are INDUSTRY STANDARDS yet your tests dont mention SAE, ISO, or NFPA as the testing body so how can you say that yours compare when they really haven't been put to the test other than to cut a bunch of filters open......oooooooo.....real scientific, and I'm not saying that a car cannot go for 12, 15, 50,000 miles on an oil change but why would you? Would you drive on tires that have gone three times the rated milage they were designed for? "They still hold the road Martha why should I spend good money?" They still hold air they must be good,right? Wrong! I don't hate Amsoil, in fact I love Lucas oil products, but they don't bash other oils or other companie's products to sell theirs. Dodge did that years ago and got sued by Fram which is why we now have the Magnussen/Moss act which protects consumers from dealers who insist that to fulfill the warrantee they must use proprietary filter products. The dealer must provide it free of charge or in writing in which case they can be sued. Yeah diesel engines are different! How did you guess! And yeah alot go a long time before a fluid change, but the motor acts and runs completely dissimilar from a gas pot...come on....I'm sure you know that! I have lots of fleet customers who use a wide range of filters, Fram, Racor, Wix, Dana......not one single Amsoil btw. But these filter are designed with that in mind! Maybe if you didn't use these forums as an advertisment I wouldn't get so hot, one of these days I will buy an Amsoil filter just so I can get to know my competition a little better. Instead of using these forums as your personal ad agency get a job with a real parts company you sound like you would be a good salesrep! Just one to another! Thanks for letting me rant! Check out www.fram.com for genuinly biased info on Fram Products but check out the Car Care Q & A thay answer alot of general questions about filter products in a professional way (no bashing of other companies)!BTW AdminII what kind of Vibe do you drive, I thought this was an owners group?

[Lorin]

I forgot to mention the anti-drainback valve - some of the cheapies don't have one .... from the link, the amsoil filter has the pressure relief valve at what some people would classify as the "wrong" end. I notice fram is towards the low end of most of the charts - I always knew instinctively that they were not up to par. Here is another good article where several brands of filters are compared: http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/ ... lpart5.htm

[Cubanpete]

The Castrol max is a pretty good Filter and not expensive!.............It's Ideal for someone that does not go the synthetic oil route and does regular interval oil changes...