Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Discuss any maintenance you've done to your Vibe & Matrix and ask how to perform maintenance on your vehicle
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JohnC
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Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by JohnC »

Here it is. The pics go with the text under them, some of the page breaks make this confusing. BTW both T-stats were 180s.

Attached files HowToThermostatWaterPump.doc (245 KB) 
Base Two Tone Satellite, Auto, & Pwr Pkg....my current commuting car.
jasonvibe
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To (JohnC)

Post by jasonvibe »

You say in your attachment. Yours was leaking a vapor? Do you mean you could smell it. Mine is just a year old. I can smell a coolant smell when I exit the car when hot. But level has only gone down 1" in 10k miles. I figured the smell was from the reservoir being right behind the radiator....always getting heat on it. I don't know if the dealer will touch it...if he does not see it leaking. They are funny that way. hee hee...only have 10k on the car.So what's the "vapor" comment of yours? A smell? Also, did you put in a non-OEM water pump?
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
JohnC
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To (jasonvibe)

Post by JohnC »

I had the identical issue that you do, a coolant smell and a very small loss of coolant. I also thought it was coming from the resevoir, but finaly noticed some oil-like residual goo on the timing chain cover below the water pump, I figured out that it was coolant by mixing the goo with water, it was then apparent that it was "dehydrated" coolant.It took 60k miles for mine to seep/vaporize enough to show up as an active leak. A coolant system pressure test may show it earlier (my tester does not fit the Vibe radiator neck). Or you may be able to see it fog an inspection mirror that is held near the pump shaft after the system is hot/pressurized (engine off of course).Hope this helps.
Base Two Tone Satellite, Auto, & Pwr Pkg....my current commuting car.
jasonvibe
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Post by jasonvibe »

John, you were the one that said a while back you changed the type of coolant and your issue went away. I know where to look for a build up or residue from dried coolant. All pumps have a weap hole. But if it's a serious leak from the WP...it will spray thru the WP pulley. When I looked... I would immediately lift the hood and try to find the exact source of the smell. But it always disapated so fast my nose could not be sure of the exact source. Usually it's a hose leaking or the WP. Now to convince a dealer to check it. Or wait till it is obvious. I have found they work so fast doing the repairs they screw up. I only have a little under 10k on it. The level has only gone down an inch on the reservoir. So I guess, smelling a slight coolant smell is not normal. This car has been nothing but worrys. Lastly if the dealer did replace the WP ...he would put in Dexcool. Which for now is not what I want in my car. Anyone else want to chime in?
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
JohnC
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Re: (jasonvibe)

Post by JohnC »

I understand your worries about dealership quality of work, it is really hit or miss...mostly miss in my experiance. Paid by the job, not by the hour. Except for the cost of replacement parts changing the pump out is no big deal, I wouldn't let a dealer do it, even if it was under warranty.Yes I believed my coolant loss problem had stopped after changing it about a year ago, infact I think that after the initial purging that I hadn't added coolant since then. I hadn't had the "smell", for a long time. I wish I could say exactly what happened, but it would just be a guess.At least this is a somewhat minor problem.
Base Two Tone Satellite, Auto, & Pwr Pkg....my current commuting car.
jasonvibe
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Post by jasonvibe »

you did not say whether the replacement was from Toyota or the local auto parts store? Looks like the pulley came with the pump?...Plus where is the weap hole ? from your leak and trail...looks like it faces front. One other thing. Those plastic rivets that are used everywhere. How do you remove them with out breaking them? For now, I will not try to worry....it's hard for me. This car is all we have for the family to get around together in.
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
JohnC
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Re: (jasonvibe)

Post by JohnC »

I bought it from NAPA it is thier brand "Dura Pro" the pulley was attached, they also had a remanufactured pump,, but I never buy those.The weep hole is at the 6 oclock position, you look thru one of the 4 holes in the face of pulley to see it. As far as I could tell mine wasn't leaking from here it was coming out from around the shaft.I don't take much time trying not to break the plastic rivits, I have a pretty good supply of them and only reuse the good ones. You can get them at most auto supply stores really cheap. I go thru alot of these due to the many suicidal rabbits on my way to and from work.
Base Two Tone Satellite, Auto, & Pwr Pkg....my current commuting car.
northvibe
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Post by northvibe »

Anybody use TRD sports thermostat?
mike7311
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To (JohnC)

Post by mike7311 »

This is a great document, good work. I have the shop manual for the '04 if anyone needs diagrams...
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joatmon
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Re: (northvibe)

Post by joatmon »

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Anybody use TRD sports thermostat?I suppose there are times when you might need such a thing, but you the stock setup seems to be able to deal with engine cooling needs. A TRD thermostat seems like the kind of thing they sell to people that want to be able to say they have TRD internals or some such thing. I wouldn't bother unless either you race the car all the time and have noticed that it runs hot, or if you need to replace the thermostat anyway and the TRD designer thermostat is an insiginificant cost increase over a standard one
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northvibe
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Post by northvibe »

I did research on the thermostat and its really only good for places with hot weather. Ill stay stock but this is a good write up for people, I need to bookmark these guides!
JohnC
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Update--120K Miles Waterpump Number 2

Post by JohnC »

Well the new NAPA waterpump that I used to replace the OEM pump several years ago started weeping... got about the same number of miles out of it.This time I used a Checker remanufactured one ($53) instead of the $123 from Napa.A search under "waterpump" seems to show that design has a tendency to start weeping from the shaft seal.The good news is that I just printed my original how to, and saved myself some time.
Base Two Tone Satellite, Auto, & Pwr Pkg....my current commuting car.
burns
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Post by burns »

Nice write up! I'm about to steal it from you. I have a rattling sound coming from that area of the engine, it's not the tensioner (already replaced that) or the belt. The sound stops with the belt removed so it's definitely an accessory. I've read some Corolla write ups saying they had rattling water pumps, so for $50 I'll try a new one. If it's not that, the alternator is next.My one question that I'll probably be able to figure out for myself but I'll ask the expert...do I need to remove the alternator to get to the water pump, or is that just for switching out the thermostat? With 90k miles, should I just go ahead and replace the thermo while I'm down there?
Octopussy
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Re:

Post by Octopussy »

jasonvibe wrote:you did not say whether the replacement was from Toyota or the local auto parts store? Looks like the pulley came with the pump?...Plus where is the weap hole ? from your leak and trail...looks like it faces front. One other thing. Those plastic rivets that are used everywhere. How do you remove them with out breaking them? For now, I will not try to worry....it's hard for me. This car is all we have for the family to get around together in.
hello there! I know that my post here is too late and I do apologize for that. Just want to agree with your question. He should determine where does the replacement came from. That will help if ever that replacement will not function normally. Thanks.
jasonvibe
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by jasonvibe »

WELL, I just purchased a new replacement water pump from NAPA $50. Hope it lasts. My original @ 87k is bad..., Comfirmed w/stethoscope bearing is loud bearing but not leaking. . Also, I do not see a weep hole on my replacement...Made in China like all the non-OEM types. This all gets done by me tomorrow...ugh! Glad I have small hands to get the bolts out and in.
Last edited by jasonvibe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
jasonvibe
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by jasonvibe »

MY NAPA JUST STARTED LEAKING . ..44k on it. There is a colored trail on the high lip of oil pan same color as antifreeze.Nothing else can leave this color. I use PEAK global...it's golden yellow. I will double check everything in the AM after the car sits overnight... when it seems to leave a few drops. Maybe some fresh stuff will be on the lip . UPDATE: Yes it's the water pump leaking . Looking closely now days before removal, I see the leak at 7 o'clock area and really dribbling down overnight..aka...left of the 6 o'clock bolt. Could it be it's the stupid chinese o-ring. I am a clean freak and cleaned everything spotless when I did this 3 years ago.
Last edited by jasonvibe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
circuitsmith
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by circuitsmith »

Time for an OEM pump (Aisin?). Should last as long as the original.
2006 Matrix 5-sp
jasonvibe
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by jasonvibe »

I got 88K out of the original. Now at 131k Need pump ASAP. This chinese NAPA = Gates , item went 44k and 3 years to the day. Napa said they'd give me a freebie...says lifetime warranty with receipt and I purchased the correct antifreeze,Also on receipt NOT DEXCOOL.. From my experience a water pump that makes it 70k or so is the norm. My old Bonniville that's when it leaked, 70k but that had DEXcool. Which we found out was crap shortly after I started usinng it. I think Napa sells Aisin ...but they do not stock them. FYI- just because it's OEM does not mean its great. As Toyota has issues with water pumps on a few model cars going bad at less mileage than the chinese junk I have. Weather out here ain't getting warmer here in the northeast. Have to do it this weekend or next, outside ....I am OLD but always do it myself. And should this have failed in the middle of the winter at 20F ...that would have really pissed me off . It leaks when the car is NOT running. Does seam to come from weap hole at 7 o'clock. Won't know for sure if it's weap hole or chinese o-ring gasket till this weekend. I will purchase an American FelPro o-ring too for $3. Oh and I will stop at the Toyota dealer to check price of pump. LATEST SEE MY NEW POST BELOW
Last edited by jasonvibe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
jasonvibe
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by jasonvibe »

Not knowing what I would find before disassembly and this is our only car...I jumped for a Toyota pump at the local dealer in stock. $122 because Napa could not get me an Aisin till Thursday for $100. Here's what I found. The stupid chinese o-ring is junk. It deformed to a flat pancake. I have the original toyota o-ring from the last pump swap 3 years ago and It's still perfect condition after being in the engine for 7 years. 3 year old Chinese junk was leaking enough to cause corrosion only in cavity where o-ring sits in the engine's timing cover . No, deformation is not a coolant issue. It's just cheap. This took me some time cleaning the corrosion carefully and using motorcycle Expensive SPECIAL RTV to seal where the bits of corrosion is/was in the o-ring cavity. This RTV not available in any auto place but have used it many times. I did let all set for a day after assembly before filling w/coolant. What I am saying is always use the toyota o-ring/gasket it's highest quality and $4. Could I have used the old pump and new o-ring = yes. But pump already has 40k+ on it and I had the new pump in my hand. The corrosion is likely due to a long time VERY slow leak from this lousy o-ring allowing air in maybe for the past year+. I checked my coolant's' freeze point is -47F after draining (55/45 mix). I also replaced thermostat...Thermostat o-ring perfect, no corrosion where that sits. Now new coolant too. The rear drain i did not open, it was sorta stuck using box wrench. But should have used 6 point socket...UGH!. Not using toyota pink but using Peak global lifetime Gold color which is used in motorcycles commonly. Toyota I believe says no silicates, 2-EH, borates, amines, or nitrites. I have no idea what the last 3 are? The thing with Pink toyota is that has phosphates. Those phosphate coolants are NOT RECOMMENDED or used in Europe DUE to their minerals in water causing deposit issues. Thus there they use a different coolant . Likely the same as the Peak Global stuff. Which I was informed by Peak is also w/o the list above. Zerex Asian is very much the same as Toyo Pink aka it's good stuff with phosphates. Phosphates do cause water pump seal wear and can clog systems if left in too long w/o changing and if high mineral content in water exists. Phosphates are something that was common in dish soap years ago and maybe been removed for it's harshness. FYI, the local Toyo shop guys themselves do not use the pink in their personal cars. Hope this lasts very long time...w/o any issues.
Last edited by jasonvibe on Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
2005 AWD PlatinumAlloys, Moon & TunesPower group...just enough to be fun
RRich89
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by RRich89 »

I don't know if you are an active member anymore but thank you for the excellent write up JohnC. I just changed my water pump at 144,000 on my '06 Vibe. It's been making that noise for about 10 months before I changed it. I never saw any coolant leakage and the sound never got worse until recently guess it was reminding me that I needed to change it out! I've forgotten how quiet the Vibe is at idle now, its nice. :D
BlindVia
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Re: Thermostat &/or Water Pump Replacement How-To

Post by BlindVia »

I Just changed the water pump on my 2007 base last week at about 130K. I didn't notice any leaking at first but could smell coolant under the hood and was getting and intermittent grinding noise on cold mornings. I ordered an Aisin pump from Amazon which should be equivalent to the factory original, paid about 1/2 the price NAPA was charging for the same unit and had it (with prime shipping) in about the same amount of time my local NAPA quoted.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00829 ... UTF8&psc=1

Once I got the old pump off I saw evidence of weeping and noticed the pump body behind/under the pulley had started to deteriorate. The intermittent noise I was getting turned out to be a chunk of the pump housing that had separated and was caught between the pulley and pump body.

This video may help as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxY6CH3EvM
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