TC or SC

Supercharger, turbo, nitrous, and anything that has to do with forced induction
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MadHatter
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TC or SC

Post by MadHatter »

Good day all! new to the group so be gentle. I’ve been given the go ahead to put a SC on our 06 vibe (FWD 1zz MT). but after looking at the $2,6xx price tag and the labor cost to have the dealer install (for the warrantee of course) I found my mind wondering toward a turbo set up instead. I found a site with a generic turbo set up for a 1zz but it looks like a thrown together set that will require a load of custom fabrication. Does anyone know a site with a turbo kit that will come close to a bolt on set up or maybe the costs associated with doing a start to finish build? I’m not looking to go 20psi or 300hp.. so changing the internals is not an option. all replies welcome. thanks!
star_deceiver
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by star_deceiver »

Welcome to GenVibe and good luck on your hunt for a turbo!!!I know of no turbo kits... everything would have to be pieced together and tuned. It wouldn't surprise me to see a turbo build cost the same as the GM/TRD supercharger install! My 2 cents anyways.
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keithvibe
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by keithvibe »

http://www.turbokits.com/matrix_turbo_kits.htmlThey do make a kit to bolt up. As with anything custom there might be some modification needed.All said and done your looking at 3-5k for a turbo set up. The benifits of going turbo is if something breaks you can find replacement parts pritty easy. The TRD supercharger has been discontinued since 03-04... and replacement parts will be difficult to come by.The other issue is your 06 is DBW, which will require an adaptor plate which is custom because the person who did make it is no longer making it.
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MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (keithvibe)

Post by MadHatter »

AWSOME!! that’s a Fabulous link. It looks like the price is going to be about the same for parts. I have a bit of experience turning wrenches but i just wonder how detailed the instructions are for install. I’m not sure if the GM SC kit was discontinued like the TRD. As of right now the dealer has the GM kit as an active part listing. I think it’s going to come down to the tuning. We have ZERO tuner shops here which makes this a DIY project when it comes to a turbo set up. whereas with the SC the dealer takes full responsibility and gives me a 3yr/36,000 warrantee. You refer to an adaptor plate for the SC? This is the first I heard about it. If it’s a factory option install for GM I would hope it would be included in the kit? What do you think the time frame for turbo install would be including tuning?thanks for the input, greatly appreciated.
keithvibe
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by keithvibe »

It may be listed, that doesn't mean it's available LOL. They never update the web pages.Also it is in fact a TRD unit, GM just slapped on their own plate on the SCer.No the adaptor plate isn't included, the Supercharger wasn't designed to mount to a DBW car.You will need this http://matrixowners.com/topic/...ready/It's not being made anymore, which causes an issue in itself.Time frame depends on your installer's or your skill level.The tunning will be your main issue. I would suggest that you source someone to do tunning for you before you go any further.Also readhttp://matrixowners.com/topic/...d-you/http://matrixowners.com/topic/73649-the ... ger/Though your not an automatichttp://matrixowners.com/topic/...x-faq/I'm lucky enough to know twincharged&auto. He is going to be helping me with my turbo project.
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Salsa Guy
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by Salsa Guy »

The SC install is very easy and takes about 8 hours. As Keith said you'll need an adapter plate for the throttle body. Then also the TRD ECU is not compatible so you'll need a another piggy back unit like Camcon, Greddy EMB/EMU or some others. If I had your car I'd go with a Turbo. There's a guy on MO that has a 1zz Turbo mainfold and GT28r turbo for sale. http://matrixowners.com/topic/...13417. Goodluck!
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
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MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (rmckinjr)

Post by MadHatter »

thanks for the info! i would perfer to do turbo but from what all i had been reading there could be some internals that couldnt hold up to the turbo. I think for the long term value im just going to piece a turbo set up together, keep the boost low and take my chances with the internals. we bought the car new so i know its been taken care of. great link by the way. is the manifold normally a fabricated item? thanks!
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by keithvibe »

2010 Vibe & member of the yeargarage Email me if you need to talk to me, click my siggy and send the email threw the contact page.
Cruxless
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by Cruxless »

Quote, originally posted by MadHatter »I think for the long term value im just going to piece a turbo set up together, keep the boost low and take my chances with the internals. I think that would be the wisest thing to do. Here's some more info for you.http://matrixowners.com/topic/...d-you/ ... bo-faq/One last thing to note, the intake manifold on the 1zz-fe is plastic.75 shot of NOS + Plastic = You can overcome ^ with a 2zz-ge intake manifold and an adapter kit.http://matrixowners.com/topic/...r-kit/
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MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (keithvibe)

Post by MadHatter »

wow yeah.. thats beautiful. and i bet that took you like a minute to find right? thanks man! and thats a heck of a deal too. Thanks!
keithvibe
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by keithvibe »

Quote, originally posted by MadHatter »wow yeah.. thats beautiful. and i bet that took you like a minute to find right? thanks man! and thats a heck of a deal too. Thanks! Being I helped Twincharged&auto do his turbo and supercharger install, I know for a fact that is the EXACT same manifold he is running.
2010 Vibe & member of the yeargarage Email me if you need to talk to me, click my siggy and send the email threw the contact page.
MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (Cruxless)

Post by MadHatter »

yeah that helps.. its practically step by step. sweet. i use to be in the DSM world with a few GST eclipse's but the electircal problems drove me away. i watched my buddy blow his piping off, run over it with his driverside rear and not only need to buy a new tire but 19" rim also. i would never of thought the intake would blow appart. nice quality parts. thats what a bad day looks like. thanks for the links and sharing!
MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (keithvibe)

Post by MadHatter »

Im looking at exhausts right now.. and I'd perfer something that doesnt sound like a bumble bee or a one that makes the car sound like its going to blow up. i keep reading about the 15758 Magnaflow catback, do yall know how this sounds?
Cruxless
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Re: TC or SC (MadHatter)

Post by Cruxless »

Quote, originally posted by MadHatter »i keep reading about the 15758 Magnaflow catback, do yall know how this sounds?Aside from the TRD exhaust the magnaflow exhaust kit is the quietest you'll find. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUwSyKb7dRw
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MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (Cruxless)

Post by MadHatter »

humm i may just stay away from it... who knows. i want the performance but i dont want the noise.
wizardai
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Re: TC or SC

Post by wizardai »

oh man I want the SC so bad! I do a lot of city driving, so basically that = stop and go. That's why I wouldn't go with TC because I want more power at the start vs top speed. But is it worth the expense? What are the downsides of having it SC? Someone mentioned about 8 hours to install the SC. Does that sound about right for 1 person? Or would it be better to take to a shop? ($$$ right?)
MadHatter
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Re: TC or SC (wizardai)

Post by MadHatter »

Quote, originally posted by wizardai »oh man I want the SC so bad! I do a lot of city driving, so basically that = stop and go. That's why I wouldn't go with TC because I want more power at the start vs top speed. But is it worth the expense? What are the downsides of having it SC? Someone mentioned about 8 hours to install the SC. Does that sound about right for 1 person? Or would it be better to take to a shop? ($$$ right?)From what I’ve read, been told, and personal experience; there’s more power to be had with the TC but personally I’m not looking to have a race car and I don’t want to mess with the internals. with all the pricing I’ve done it looks like they are both going to cost about the same. oh and there’s the adaptor plate for the SC is nonexistent for a DBW car. or well at least I haven’t been able to find one. As far as install time I’ve read the SC step-by-step and it’s not all that challenging until you get to tuning. It looks like 8 hrs for one person should be about right as long as there’s not a cooler full of beer within arms length.I’ve have a few TC cars before and getting off the line was never a real problem. of course there’s a bit of lag but it’s not like you’re going to be running 25psi. at 7 to 10 psi I don’t think the lag will be enough to worry about you’ll be into high RPM's quick anyway and these cars don’t have bad toque for takeoff. It’s the top end of each gear that struggles. I ran a SC V6 once with my TC 4cylinder side by side for ¼ mile after that I had him, I was running prob 15psi on stock turbo and intercooler. I did later blow the turbo but it was a hell of a ride getting there. Just from experience and my personal opinion I still think the TC is the way to go. So much more potential. You can do all the work for the same $$ and same amount of wrench time but if you ever want to get serious about power you can do internals and crank up the boost but with a SC you will never get to the boost levels you can achieve with TC.
Salsa Guy
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Re: TC or SC (wizardai)

Post by Salsa Guy »

Quote, originally posted by wizardai »oh man I want the SC so bad! I do a lot of city driving, so basically that = stop and go. That's why I wouldn't go with TC because I want more power at the start vs top speed. But is it worth the expense? What are the downsides of having it SC? Someone mentioned about 8 hours to install the SC. Does that sound about right for 1 person? Or would it be better to take to a shop? ($$$ right?)The problems with the SC is finding one. There are a few new ones floating around but are $3K. The used ones sometimes have been.... well... "used" and sometimes abused. There are SC rebuilders that do it for about $1K (or less) but the other problem with used SCs is getting all the parts some of which are no longer made. The idler pulley for the SC is a prime example of a very weak part that has caused many headaches (mine included). The TRD/GM SC kits are simple to install and I suggest getting a buddy to help you out and will take about 8 hours. As far as special tools a 3/8" drive torque wrench and gas line coupler removal tool (can't think of the name right now) are about it. The only thing you'll need (with a new kit) is cooler plugs and copper spray-a-gasket. I did have a shop install the Crank Pulley Bolt but if you have an impact wrench it shouldn't be a problem. A smaller turbo setup would be responsive at the lower end (spools up quickly and lower boost). But any amount of boost can trash the engine if not "Tuned" correctly. IM me with your e-mail address and I can send you the TRD SC install manual, in PDF, for your viewing pleasure. EDIT: The SC will only work on 03-04 1zz Engines and 03-06 1zz Engines with AWD. In other words if you car is Drive By Cable (DBC) it should install with no problems. If it's Drive By Wire you need a throttle plate adapter. I don't know if the TRD SC piggyback ECU will work with the DBW. So you may need another Piggyback ECU system.
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keithvibe
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Re: TC or SC (rmckinjr)

Post by keithvibe »

my turbo, on paper, will be at full spool at 2k... HAHAI can't wait to start... just waiting on a spot in the BYT garage to open up.
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Salsa Guy
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Post by Salsa Guy »

That's what I'm Talking about Keith! What kind of Boost PSI will you be running?
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
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wizardai
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Post by wizardai »

so basically we're out of luck with a base 2005 AT?
Salsa Guy
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Re: (wizardai)

Post by Salsa Guy »

Quote, originally posted by wizardai »so basically we're out of luck with a base 2005 AT? Shoot, you could SC or TC the BASE AT. The AWD cars are limitled. Well until Keith get his TC working!
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop
keithvibe
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Re: (wizardai)

Post by keithvibe »

Quote, originally posted by wizardai »so basically we're out of luck with a base 2005 AT? in cali... yup...
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DJ_Losch_411
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Post by DJ_Losch_411 »

*2005 Stock Vibe GT* *Kawi Racer* See My Garage http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=43702
keithvibe
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Re: (DJ_Losch_411)

Post by keithvibe »

Quote, originally posted by DJ_Losch_411 »http://www.yourhotcar.com/prod...48977/^^^^ that kit has no engine managment, no upgraded injectors, not proven turbo, universal piping, no down pipe for the turbo, crappy blow off valve... Sill better off with the turbo kit's turbo, it's provenhttp://www.turbo-kits.com/matrix_turbo_kits.html
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MadHatter
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Re: (keithvibe)

Post by MadHatter »

Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »^^^^ that kit has no engine managment, no upgraded injectors, not proven turbo, universal piping, no down pipe for the turbo, crappy blow off valve... Sill better off with the turbo kit's turbo, it's provenhttp://www.turbo-kits.com/matrix_turbo_kits.htmlagree.. you can spend hours on a generic set up that still wont perform half as well or shell out a few more $$ and do it right.
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