West Corvine Turbo coming for the 2ZZ.

[d_m_kolb]

I received a e-mail from West Covina Toyota after I e-mailed them asking about a rumored 2ZZ turbo. Here is there response.quote:2zz-ge IS planned for the future. It's currently on the "back burner"until we get the 1ZZFE turbo worked out perfect.I'm all for a 2ZZGE turbo, I have a 00 Celica GTS myself!!!! Guess whois the "guinea pig"?Pricing will be similar to 1zz-fe turbo. Around $3,500. That's all for now.Talk to you soonEdrick AsuncionInternet Sport partsWest Covina Toyota1800 E. Garvey Ave. South.West Covina , CA 91791tel. 626-859-7400 x104fax 626-859-7410edrick@wctoyotasport.com http://www.wctoyotasport.com

[d_m_kolb]

Yes it will be kinda the same set up as the 1ZZ and it will be a complete kit including intercooler for around $3,500. I don't know much else other than that.Once the 1ZZ is problem free and being sold they will start working on the 2ZZ turbo for all you Vibe GT owners. You'll finally have your forced induction.

[d_m_kolb]

Spoke with Edrick of West Covina Toyota today and the 2ZZ turbo is going to happen for sure. They wanted to complete the 1ZZ turbo first before really going all out on another project.I didn't get a whole lot of info about the 2ZZ mainly because Edrick doesn't want to give out false info at this point with out more testing on there part. I was asked to get in touch with him around 2 weeks from now and more info on the 2ZZ turbo will be available to me at that point.I'll keep you all posted.

[mu_ohio]

quote:WOW! I'm a little surprised that they are going to produce one for the 2ZZ. I guess the boost will be quite low, and it will include an intercooler.If you look at it though, the Honda S2000 has a ton good selection of boast add-ons and that engine is in the same boat as the 2ZZ. I'm sure if they can make it for the Hondas, they can make them for us.

[old man winter]

Keep up the good work Derek. All my spending plans are now on hold for mods. I will watch to see what happens with the 2ZZ turbo.

[d_m_kolb]

Well you might have to wait a few months. West Covina isn't going to sell one until all the bugs are totally worked out. Edrick which is the contact for West Covina Toyota and is the person I get my info from owns the Late model Celica GTS that this system will be tested on. This is also his daily driver and he'd like to keep his car for some time so they are gonna get it right. LOL They'll get it right anyway so don't worry.They worked on the 1ZZ turbo day in and day out for many months to make sure nothing was going to go wrong. I'll have more info in 2 weeks but I wouldn't expect the 2ZZ turbo right away. The 1ZZ is going to be available in a few short weeks.

[tkd]

I have a 2000 model honda s2000 and a 2003 vibe gt and although I LOVE my vibe, the two engines shouldn't be considered in the same boat, or even the same sport.

[mu_ohio]

quote:I have a 2000 model honda s2000 and a 2003 vibe gt and although I LOVE my vibe, the two engines shouldn't be considered in the same boat, or even the same sport. Why? I think they are great for comparison sake. Yes, the Honda engine puts out more HP but it also has a larger displacement. That being considered, they both do pretty much the same thing in the end. They prove that you can make an efficient engine and still get performance.

[d_m_kolb]

Here's what West Covina plans to do for the 2ZZ-GEquote:Alright, you know about the GT kit, and you know about the price. So, would $3500 be a fair price for a similarly equipped GT-S kit running about 4.5 PSI, putting maybe 240 hp or so to the crank?I think I can source a set of rods and pistons for $1500, so figure you'd spend around $5000 or so to get the kit with pistons and connecting rods, a whole lot less than the 5 digit figures I'm seeing elsewhere.I mean, to take full advantage of the kit, I'm sure there would need to be additional changes made, like a new fuel pump, fuel rail, and things like that, but let's assume that even with a full new ECU and all of those things, the kit would be like $6000.$3500 for a 4.5 PSI kit?$6000 for an all-inclusive kit at maybe 15-17 PSI?Well, the 14 psi wouldn't be difficult at all if you were running an 8.5:1 compression ratio, and if the rods were replaced. No kidding, the rods in the 2ZZ and the 1ZZ are both crap, although the 1ZZ's are like toothpicks.The kits really wouldn't be able to interchange at all, because there just isn't any way to have the same turbo service both kits. I mean, maybe as an option....like people could get the 'built' kit and then hold off on the internals replacement, but the turbo would have to be like a T3/T4 hybrid to support that much boost, which means on the 2ZZ engine you wouldn't be getting crap till around 4000 RPM's, and even then it would be sketchy, because the turbo is not designed to run only 4.5 psi....I have no idea how it would run, but it would seem to me that it would be flaky--like unable to hold that boost level, and if that's the case, it has no business being on a non-modified 2ZZ.I mean, for those who are okay with it, the basic kit could support about 250 hp--roughly about the max of the stock engine. The only issue with that is, it's roughly the max of the stock engine. There are a lot of reliability issues with the engine as is, so I think it may have to intentionally be turned back to about the same as the GT kit, specifically to around 230 hp.The power delivery would be fantastic, getting the car up and moving at under 2000 RPM's, so the driveability would be great, and the car should be about low 13, or with a really good driver, high 12 second 1/4 mile pass quick.I think people have to be aware of the limitations of the car in this configuration. You're basically going to be stuck at around 240 hp or less unless you are willing to rebuild in the internals. Do that, and you could easily approach 350hp.Also, odds are against you being able to get a kit that will work for both. I wish we could.....It just doesn't look like that's feasible.As for tuning, the kits will all come pre-tuned, with the option to choose an ECU that will be reprogrammable. The reprogramming option negates the CARB legality, which will be just fine for many of the people who are getting the kit.That's about it. DavidThis is quoted from David Draper of West Covina Toyota.http://www.wctoyotasport.com sales@wctoyotasport.com

[Cubanpete]

Dave...........At 6000 US . I prefer to wait for an upcoming souped engine straight from the factory and buying a new GT.....Thats definately too much cash if you ask me.at 6000....you can buy a V6 for that car!

[d_m_kolb]

Just curious but did you skip over the part where it explains for $5,000 to $6,000 you'll be looking at 350HP! This price is a complete turbo kit with internal engine modifications. I don't know of any V6 modded or not coming anywhere near 350 HP. Even a 3.8L with a turbo from GM installed runs about 300HP. For $3,500 you can get a complete kit and be looking at around 240 HP from a 2ZZ without changing anything internally.

[Flip-Side]

quote:I don't know of any V6 modded or not coming anywhere near 350 HP. Even a 3.8L with a turbo from GM installed runs about 300HP. Even worse Derek, only 240HP. I second the fact that getting a new GT or high-end Vibe, would be better overall. For HP per dollar, its easy to tell that a turbo or factory SC is the way to go.

[Fritzburg]

It only makes sense to offer a turbo for the 2ZZ, think how big the market is, with Matrix, Vibe, and Celica, they could sell hundreds in the first month!

[rasermon]

Fritzburg, you've hit the nail right on the head.

[mu_ohio]

quote:Fritzburg, you've hit the nail right on the head. The turbo really will put this car into a different price category which makes is a poor investment. Think about it, the GT cost around $20k to start then you add $4k in a turbo and that doesn't include the installation cost. At that point you are talking about a WRX which has 227hp, awd, and can easily have the hp increased.

[d_m_kolb]

ya but with a turboed GT you'd blow the doors off a stock WRX. I wont buy a WRX because I don't like the way they look. They don't have the room of the Vibe either. Plus could you imagine what it's going to feel like at 6000 rpm??? People do things for different reasons. If people wanted another vehicle they wouldn't be here at this site.

[old man winter]

HANG ON!,HANG ON! There is no way a turboed GT would blow the doors off a stock WRX, I have driven both. A GT will need a lot more than a turbo to keep up with a WRX. There is no contest in respect to handling, breaking, and performance. There could be some advantage with the six speed but that is it. The awd system will make the WRX jump out at the green light and when it comes to a corner….sorry, it would be over. I’m not saying that it would be impossible, but the turbo alone will not do it.

[d_m_kolb]

Well lets see. West Covina says they will be able to safely turbo a 2ZZ to around 240 flywheel HP. Last time I looked a WRX was rated at 227 flywheel HP.So yes a turboed GT will beat a WRX and still do it cheaper than you could purchase a WRX for.Here's how the Vibe GT stacks up stock against a stock WRX..................................Vibe GT.....................WRX60-0 Braking, ft............114.00.Motor Trend....123.00.Motor TrendSkidpad, g...................0.83.Car and Driver ...0.82.Car and DriverSlalom, mph................66.90.Motor Trend......62.80.Motor Trendweight.........................2800/2877.................3165/3220HP...........Vibe GT turboed 240@7,600............227@6,000Vibe GT $19,365 + $3,500 for West Covina turbo = $22,865WRX $23,495Lighter vehicle making more HP. The Vibe GT will win.

[mu_ohio]

That realy wasn't my point. The turbo charged GT will cost around $26k after you have the turbo installed. Heck some GTs go for $22k new so add another $5-6k ontop of that and you are up to $28k. I can find a WRX for $25k easily and then add stuff to that and have way more than 240 hp safely. Heck, if I wanted to stay with a hatch I could go with the WRX hatch version. I do think though that both claims have mixed truths. The WRX is helped by AWD, but the Vibe is on par with breaking and handling a mixed bag. You can't auto cross on public roads so the advantage isn't realized with the WRX. In a recent comparison in C&D, both cars performed the same in the slalomn and skid. Then again no one tested drifting.Just looking at similar cars, a trubo GT will cost you more than a WRX. I purchased the Vibe because it was the best thing going with my GM discount. If I wanted to spend closer to $26k I would have went with the WRX hatch and I'm sure others would also.

[d_m_kolb]

Better check your prices. A totally complete turbo kit from West covina will run $3,500. This is still cheaper than a WRX.

[Cubanpete]

The WRX is already turbo charged delivering 227 HP, its not factory stock that way

[d_m_kolb]

I'm totally lost on what you just said. Everyone knows the WRX is turboed from the factory.

[old man winter]

Well, I paid $26,400 CDN for my VIBE GT, and the WRX was $31,650 CDN. That is a difference of $5,250. I never pay msrp and get the best deal I can, so your prices will vary. If I were to put a West Covina turbo for $3,500 USD on a GT it would be $5,600 CDN plus duty, I will not use duty in this calculation because I do not know what the rate is…advantage Vibe. And I still do not have AWD. If you add an AWD system to a turbo Vibe GT….well lets take a guess at $4,000 CDN, that would make the AWD Vibe GT with a West Covina turbo for $35,750 CDN. It would take Toyota 4 years to develop a system to compete with a Subaru So that is $35,250-$31,650=$3,600. For $3,600 I will go buy 4 Superleggera by OZ Racing (17x7 $430ea = $1,700) and some new rubber say($400 ea =$1,600) for a total of$3,300. This would resolve my Slalom issues. It is common knowledge that the stock WRX tires are junk and fail in the management of putting the hp to the road.I have had the rare opturtunity to driven both cars around the same 50 kph on ramp in Sudbury. The Vibe GT was ble to reach 95 to 100 with the car “pushing” around the corner. It felt like the rear right was lifting off and loosing grip. I took the WRX around the same on ramp and was able to get 105 to 110. The car was in a full four-wheel drift but I was able to counter steer and control the turn with the accelerator. The car was more neutral and on the “loose” side.Or if I gat really serious I will put this on;During the last one year of its availability, no other WRX performance package has garnered so much praise for its unique combination of reliability, drivability and exceptional value. From synergistic matching of seeming dissimilar components, we’ve been able to maximize performance while minimizing engine stresses and avoiding the typically accepted trade-offs. Race-proven on road courses around the world, Stage Zero represents our vision of providing properly engineered package upgrades that yield nothing but reward and enhance driver enjoyment. Expect a perfectly trouble-free 275-285 horsepower with greatly reduced turbo lag and improved engine response. This system will transform the somewhat a stock and somewhat anemic WRX into an ultra-responsive, torque-laden and extraordinarily potent street performer. Package Includes: 321 Up-Pipe Kit Underdrive Pulley Unichip Engine Control System Adjustable Manual Boost Controller Colder NGK Spark Plugs Silicon IC Hose Upgrade (optional) Vishnu Billet Battery Tie-Down Lachute Subaru in Quebec will do it for $2465, all in.I did not start this fire, The Vibe is a great car and so is the WRX. We could debate this forever. It is my opinon that the WRX is better out of the box and is a better platform to build on.This my long rang plan for the WRX;1. In late spring 2003 cough up $2600 for the Vishnu 0 Stage kit to jump to +/-280 hp. 2. By mid summer 2003, if I recover from the $2,600, dump another $2500 to $3000 on performance 17” rims and tires. This should help in the management of the hp gain. 3. In late November or early December of 2003 acquire winter only tires and mount them on the original rims. 4. Spring 2004; purchase a turbo back exhaust and a new down pipe. This will most likely go for around $1500.At this point I should be well over 300 hp, this should keep me happy through my mid life crises. I could not guarantee the same results with the Vibe GT. After a year of release in North America there are many more options to mod the WRX, some cars are pushing 400 hp for around $5,000 USD.

[mu_ohio]

quote:Better check your prices. A totally complete turbo kit from West covina will run $3,500. This is still cheaper than a WRX.The kit will cost around $3500, but that doesn't include any type of installation. Tack on another $1000 since they typically take a shop a good amount of time. My point is still that you can start with a WRX and spend a grand and have a lot more than the Vibe with a turbo.I just went to the Subaru site and built what I would want in a WRX hatchback. It came to $24,908 with the added an upgraded security system and auto dimming rearview mirror. The window sticker for my GT was $22,000. $3500 for the turbo plus $22,000 for the vehicle comes to $25,000 and that's before installation costs. I don't care how you figure those but add at least $500 and you come to $26,000. For $1000, I could have over 240hp plus I have AWD. IMO, if i wanted a fast turbo car I would have gotten something else.

[d_m_kolb]

I never said the GT would be a AWD. Toyota will probably never make a Matrix XRS AWD so it doesn't matter. What I was saying is a West Covina turbo on a Vibe GT will beat a stock WRX in the quarter mile. It would be close because the WRX is AWD drive meaning it will launch much better but I still feel it would be beat. Actually It's probably be to close to call. So I'm done with the Vibe and WRX who will win discussion until someone turbos a Vibe or GT and then gets some numbers we can compare. Until then I wont say much more about this race that hasn't happened yet.I have enjoyed talking about it though. As all ways no hard feelings. I'll post updates as I receive them.

[old man winter]

Friendly banter about the automobiles we all like. It just does not get any better. That is what I like about this site. We can go back and forth without profanity or derogatory remarks. Some other forums I have been at are brutal, stay tuned I know I will be right

[d_m_kolb]

LOL No fair I stopped. Nothing like wishful thinking.

[old man winter]

Okay! I will stop now, not that I like getting the last word or something.

[Cubanpete]

Agreed 100% this is why I love this site and like to bounce around and read ideas, with cool folks that all have a common interest! It's also great that the site here is squeaky clean and nobody is trying insult anyone....KUDOS

[Cubanpete]

what options came with you vibe at 26,400??? That was the price of the vehicle alone or with preparation and air conditioning tax included?

[old man winter]

It was $27,660 everything except the taxes, sorry I made a mistake, I looked up the info on my old contract. I leased the car in late may when demand was very high. I had people phoning me through my dealer who offered me $500 so they could get the GT. So when I went it to deal on price....the dealer laughed at me and said go find a GT somewhere else, than laughed at me again. Back then the GT was hard to find, every dealerI called said they were spoken for. I just got lucky and found this one local in Sudbury. I waited only a week for it. I had every option except the nav system and roof. It came with the 17" wheels.

[d_m_kolb]

I was just thinking about something you said earlier. You paid $27,660 for your WRX. This sounds right to me. For aurgument sake lets say a Vibe GT with a West Covina turbo installed would cost the same.You said well if I took $3,500 and spent it on the WRX you'd blow a Vibe GT away. Now realize you have all ready spent $27,660 for your WRX. The GT is now at the same price. What I'm getting at is you can buy a GT cheaper than a WRX then turbo it and it would be the same price as if you bought a new WRX and make more HP doing it.You said you could then take another $3,500 and spend it on the WRX and bring the HP up more. I totally agree this could be done but for another $1,500 West Covina will reaplace the rods and pistons in the 2ZZ so it will have a lower compression ratio and then the boost can be raised. David Draper said with this being done you could have a 350HP 2ZZ! So for $5,000 you could have this done. This could go on and on but this just came to me so I'll stop.

[mu_ohio]

[QUOTE]I was just thinking about something you said earlier. You paid $27,660 for your WRX. This sounds right to me. For aurgument sake lets say a Vibe GT with a West Covina turbo installed would cost the same.QUOTE]That was the price of his Vibe I assume in Canadian Dollars. I've seen many WRX cars at the lots around her for $25,000.

[old man winter]

Derek Derek Derek,I thought you said you would stop now… Well here we go again.The $27,660 CDN was for the Vibe GT, the WRX was $31,650 CDN. I made a mistake in my original post quoting $26,400 CDN for the Vibe GT. That now make a difference of only $3990 CDN. A West Covina turbo for $3,500 USD on a Vibe GT would be $5,600 CDN, plus duty and installation. For this exercise lets say $7,000 CDN. So $7,000+$27,660=$34,660 for a turbo Vibe Gt. $34,660-31,650=$3010 more for the Vibe GT and it does not have AWD. Now for $2465 CDN I can have a Vishnu Stage 0 kit and this would get me to 280 hp. So now the WRX is $31,650+$2,465=$34,115, and has AWD.So now you add Internal mods for $1,500 USD or $2,400 CDN to the turbo Vibe GT, that is $34,660+$2,400=$37,060. Therefore $37,060-$34,115=$2,945 more for a Vibe GT turbo at 350 hp, and still no AWD. Now I will have to update to a Vishnu Stage 2 by adding some fuel injectors and another turbo and get to 350 hp.This is a song that will never end.Also I found the following stats in the December issue of Motor Trend. I bought this in the Winnipeg Airport on a business trip yesterday. And yes I did read the article on the Cooper, Beetle and the Vibe GT in MT. The Vibe is the obvious winner, they should have had a satellite mono on the cover, sorry Salsa. ..................................Vibe GT........................WRX60-0 Braking, ft............128..............................123Skidpad, g...................0.76.............................0.83Slalom, mph................62.1.............................65.0I was in the middle of an important meeting today, then the conversation started to go off track. I was plugged into the network, so I snuck a peek at Genvibe……well you got my attention, and I had to respond. Don’t you hate when someone says “Rob, so what do you think about this issue” D’oh!, here I am writing this rebuttal logged onto Genvibe. Time for Rob to grow up, I had to crash out fast and save my text to word. (removed), came up with a good answer and kept on typing. Derek, you age getting me into trouble.Now I’m back at the hotel and can’t get the Internet. That’s what happens when you are in the middle of nowhere. I can’t find my cord to dial out on my cell phone either, GD packsack. I will try to sneak this out when I go back for more morning meetings. Here I am 41 years old and acting like I’m twenty.And yes I did read the article on the Cooper, Beetle and the Vibe GT in MT. The Vibe is the obvious winner, they should have had a satellite mono on the cover, sorry Salsa.

[mu_ohio]

old man winter, I wonder why there is such a difference between the GT they tested and the one in the WRX, XRS, Protege5 camparison they did? That article tested the WRX the same, but the XRS pulled a 60-0mph in 114 feet and a 66.9 mph in the slalom and I'm sure the skidpad is higher. I should note though that the XRS had the 17" rim package which may make a big difference. I did test drive both version of the GT and I could feel a difference. I should say also that the WRX wagon had the really nice 17" upgrade package that run a couple grand. Check the article out at http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wag ... index.html , it will make you appreciate how well the Vibe GT/XRS will handle.