Do you absolutely need "stand alone engine management" to turbo our Vibes ?

[Faultline]

I do not remember if it was someones Spyder or Celica, but they had their 1zz car running a turbo with a low 4psi boost to start . Before tuning, his dyno was 156hp to the weels or 180hp at the crank. he said that he didn't like how lean the fuel was running at some of the rev ranges, but hadn't tuned yet either. In my mind , this already was looking comparable to the gm SC, (maybe not in torque though).Also, i do not recall if he had bigger injectors either. So I guess that its hard to tune the stock ECU when turboing . But this is based on the mr2 and celica reports. Is our Vibes Ecu the same? is it the same as Matrix's? Does it matter?There is a guy in my area that turbos cars, is well thought of by mechanics that I know. He fabricates his own manifolds ,and IC plumbing and tunes at the end. Likes the T3 turbo. He usually uses a "piggy back" system to run the turbo. He tried to explain to me that its like "the stock ECU runs the engine as normal , then the "Piggy back" runs the engine when the turbo kiks in". Something like that anyway. He also talked about maybe adding an injector, or fuel pump. and best of all, doing everything for $3100.oo or something like that. He said not to expect crazy power , but about 50% more. Which to me sounds GREAT! 130hp +65hp = 195hp!!s When I told him tha I had VVT-i , he said that , that would be tricky.As I understand it , there is no returnfuel line in our fuel system, which i guess makes it hard to tune? Is our ECU the same as Toyota? Does that Matter? . How Is the gm Sc going to work with the tuning? I know that they are adding a 5th injector, is the stock ECU going to run the show? Andrew MVA say "stand alone engine management only" ,BUt is that only for 200hp+? What about for Running less boost? I Like turbos, but if this gets to hard or expensive, Im heading towards the GM supercharger! Any thoughts anyone???good vibrationsfaultline

[d_m_kolb]

In my talks I have had with Gm they have said repeatedly they use a different ECU in the Vibe than Toyota uses in the Matrix. GM has also said their ECU is much more complex than the ECU used in the Matrix. The same holds rue for the piggy back computer that will be used with the supercharger. Both the Vibe and Matrix supercharger piggy back computer will be different.This thread might answer some more of your questions as well.http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1710

[andrewmva]

To answer your question real shortly, NO you do not need standalone for a low pressure system. (as long as it is the same ECU as toyota)If the same ecu is used then there is minor flexibility...... to answer your question NO you DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE standalone. some people are running low boost (4-5lbs) with the factory fuel system. The ECU is able to sdjust for the extra air being forced in. The new toyota ECUs are really amazing, very smart, which is also part of the problem for running high boost. When you go over a certain amount of boost and add more fuel with a injector controller, FMU whatever..... the factory ECU will pick up on the extra fuel and lean out the engine, not only under boost.... all the time, at idle WHENEVER... when we were tuning the Mr2 I watched the turbo manifold turn Red-hot at idle after runing 12lbs around the block on the street. So if you plan on making over 220 at the wheels go stand alone... NOW the problem with doing the kit first and then turning up the boost later is that you will have to replace the turbo....for the low boost set-up we would go really small probly T3 which can do OK at low and will go up to 15-16lbs of boost. Now if you wanna run 15-16lbs all the time, you are really going to be working that turbo.... I'm going to run 10-12lbs daily and 20+ at the track, I'm going with a T3 exhaust housing and a 60-1(huge) compresser.... remember power in a turbo system is not always about more boost.... it is about everthing being balanced.. working together efficently...

[Faultline]

thanks Andrew and Derek for your replies, I apreciate them so very much . 1. I still wonder if the matrix and vibes ecu's are different like gm says. It almost sounds like propaganda "yes they are different...and ours,of course, is more complex".... blah blah blah . "so lets make sure that all the matrix owners buy ther SC from TRD so they can pay more" I guess it remains to be seen by a tuner who has seen both ecu's. 2. Andrew, if I am taking your comments corectly, then using a piggyback systeem to for the tuning is feasable in the range that my turbo guy is talking "Looking for roughly 50% more power"?? Also, I am trying to grasp your notions that 10-12psi boost is daily driving boost? then 20 at the track? ......Im guessing this is with new pistons? Finally, x-mas is upon us, and all though it is sunny blue with great weather for zooming out her in the desert; (i see clouds on TV!). Gifts must be bought for the loved ones And the turbo may wait till 2003. Plus Im still curious about alpines "aqua cooled kit" allegedly coming out. On the other hand, My turbo guy is slowing down this month,would be a good month to have his full attention and a turbo of course! Good vibrations faultline

[andrewmva]

2. Andrew, if I am taking your comments corectly, then using a piggyback systeem to for the tuning is feasable in the range that my turbo guy is talking "Looking for roughly 50% more power"?? Also, I am trying to grasp your notions that 10-12psi boost is daily driving boost? then 20 at the track? ......Im guessing this is with new pistons? Yeah that is with pistons rods, new fuel system, standalone. I'm doing everything If you wanna run more than 5-6lbs boost I would get standalone. If someone takes pics of all the serial #'s on thier ECU and posts them or e-mails them to me..... I might be able to tell if the are different....

[Faultline]

I do not have a digital camera to take pics. maybe for x-mas.faultline