The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine

Nervous_Dog · Post by **Nervous_Dog** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:50 pm

quote:Yup, the Power FC units seems to get the job done. Although, SCC used a TecII in their project matrix. The only problem with that is that the TecII disabled the VVT and lift... which sort of makes me question of doing that to the 2zz in the first place. Once you've disabled both of those, you're probably make less base power than the 1zz! Do'h!Actually, SCC used the TecII to control only the fuel delivery and ignition systems. THe stock ECU still controlled cam timing, so they still hit lift at 6000 rpms.

r1ceburner · Post by **r1ceburner** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:50 am

That's true, but they wanted to us an all-in-one engine management system because they could not play with the timing maps inside the stock ECU. They DID only use the Power FC to manage the fuel, but if they had their choice, the would have use a TecIII (wasn't available at the time) or somthing similar to control timing, fuel, lift and spark all in one unit. That was my point.

Nervous_Dog · Post by **Nervous_Dog** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:18 am

A TecIII would be sweet. I wish we could easily control our big cam like the VTEC guys.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:43 am

This is interesting but I think there is a flaw in the whole boosting of the 2zz. Bear with me, I'm not a tuner but why would you sc a vvti-l engine? The whole vv thing is developed for a naturally asperated engine that creates flow into the cyls through a vaccuum in the cyls. When you slap on a sc you're pushing flow and, from what I've been reading here, the vvti-l is operating out of synch with the sc. For example, if lift hits at 6k but boost comes on strong at 3.5k-4k the sc is working against the engine... the valves are in low lift when the sc is trying to push a big charge in. At 6k the point becomes moot as finally the engine is 'open' to big flowI think ideally, you'd disable the whole vvti-l or, ideally, have vvti-l operating until boost hits (as it's technically naturally asperated to that point) around 3.5k then full lift from 3.5k all the way to 8k. The engine may not be able to handle 10lb boost due to the high comp but then the sc would only have to put out 6 or so all the way up... which means smaller sc, which means more power sooner...Seems to me that the 1zz would be better suited to all types of sc and able to produce greater hp with a sc than the 2zz all other things equal.Anyway... just my thoughts.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:52 am

your mostly correct but your missing one important point... people dont care!! most people know the 2zz assets and limitations . but thats not what they want to hear we are all like tim taylor all we want to hear is more power.without blowing things up(unlike tim taylor) theres been post on why the izz is better suited for forced induction. but 2zz peope dont want to hear that. neither do most of them want to lower their compression. they want something cheap and easy to bolt on and boost power i agree that the 3zz mod would be that best route for 2zz but its expensive and not really practical for a daily driver.2nd runner up is the equally expensive blitz supercharger good torque off lift and low boost on lift for a smoother top end hp curve. should the 2zz owners just be happy with what they got? if i would have got one which i wanted but they wouldnt sell, i wouldnt put boost on it but thats just me. and since the 1zz gets a supercharger some 2zz owners feel cheated since they bought the "performance" model. the 2zz fi solution is already out there its just not cheap or under warrenty and i doubt it will be any other way. buy the way the supercharger boost is instant you'll make more power where it peaks but regardless you get FULL boost when you mash the gas at any rpm.

xLR8_Sd · Post by **xLR8_Sd** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:09 am

before the matrix and vibe hit the market. there was a issue of sport compact. it did a we test it we tune it on the xrs. they used the XS turbo for the celica with a few mods from XS. they also used a big break kit right from the celica. they say the matrix and celica use the same breaks. so i bet the vibe is the same. mabye not. i still have this issue of sport compact. has alot of nice engine mods done on the xrs that the vibe would look nice in.forgot one thing. the only bad thing about the mag is they did not post a HP gain ect... the just said it was fast.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:35 pm

I believe dropping boost at lift has to do with allowing the stock fuel system to keep up and lift is a logical place to drop it as it keeps a nice even power curve. Should help longevity too. The Blitz is mighty fast even though the peak hp #s aren't fantastic.

syclnjr · Post by **syclnjr** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:16 pm

I was looking at the specs on that Bitz supercharger and I think it is a rip off for one since all you are paying for is a regular blower with a damn A/c clutch attached to it and essentially that is all that it is. Just my two cents but if I was going to do anything like this to my GT I would go turbo. I would love to see XS or the stafford guys get one on an XRS or GT to see what it runs like.Later

futseal04 · Post by **futseal04** » Thu May 27, 2004 9:22 pm

I think this thread is kinda interesting, so I thought I would put in my 3 cents.200+HP at the wheels is impressive, but the thing to consider here is....what octane requirement does the car have? With the stock compression (11.0:1 or so, isn't it?) would require probably 104 octane fuel. Secondly, I wouldn't vouch for the longevity of the motor. I think that if you wanted to turbo the motor, you would probably need a forged crank and rods, with pistons that lowered compression to at least 9:1.11.0:1 isn't too high for turbo boost, in fact, drag racers run over 17:1 CR, but then again, they tear down a motor almost every run. (and that isn't even talking about top fuel dragsters.....where the S/C's drive loss is around 700HP).Has anyone tried boring and stroking the motor? I just saw a 1ZZ motor on Ebay yesterday for 800 bucks and thought to myself that I might get one like that and have a seperate "monster motor" to work on when i get the cash. Bore and Stroke, Port and polish the heads, add the factory S/C, and install deeper gears. And the beauty of it is.....if it blows, you have the stock one to put back in!Hmmmm....maybe I did just find my next project..........Remember......"There is no such thing as too much cam, just not enough Motor"and "Speed costs money....how fast do you want to go?"

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:02 am

From what I understand, the 2zz has stronger rods than the 1zz. Though the same 1.8, the 2zz has a wider bore and shorter stroke. Its compression is 11.5:1 compared to the 1zz's 10:1. Monkeywrench racing at http//:www.monkeywrenchracing.com has a sleeve kit for the 1zz.you bore your motor out to a 2.0. the kit comes with iron sleeves, wiseco pistions that drop the compression to 8.8:1 for F/i, and crower rods. they have other goodies for building the 1zz like stonger valve springs. and studs for the top and lower end of the motor. I know they built their own motor with this kit in a celica with a turbo, and put down 304whp .

futseal04 · Post by **futseal04** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:45 am

Geez.....i figured that trading from a V8 to a 4 banger, things would be half the price........but I am finding that pistons, rods and springs are the same price........for half the parts!

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:59 am

Quote, originally posted by futseal04 »Geez.....i figured that trading from a V8 to a 4 banger, things would be half the price........but I am finding that pistons, rods and springs are the same price........for half the parts! I dont get it either!

noginsk · Post by **noginsk** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:17 am

[QUOTE=.... I know they built their own motor with this kit in a celica with a turbo, and put down 304whp . [/QUOTE]Holy Horsepower Batman!

Lucky317 · Post by **Lucky317** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:47 pm

that was quite a bit to read through but I'll try to keep it simple from my experiences with the celicas...with the stafford Fabrications base kit, we added the Apexi Power FC and 525cc injectors, kept all stock internals. We made 276.4whp and 204.7wtq @ 9psi and it was daily driven like that. with the Blitz S/C we maxed the injectors by 7,400 rpms and resulted in only 220 whp and 194 wtq. He stopped workin on the celica so we havent had a chance to top that and fix the fuel issue. I think the kit sucks for the amount of $$ you'll pay for it. If you're going to go with a built 2ZZ you'll make way more power then the stock tranny can hold. I know theres a difference withyour tranny compared to our celicas but I think it shouldnt be too much trouble. We use a company called C2Power who makes turbo kits for the celicas and a stronger straight cut gearset for our tannys. It's around $4k but so worth it if you're lookin to make serious power. we've got 1 thats gonna be hooked up to a fully built 2zz soon. we're waiting on some other parts to get finished before it can be put together. anyways, jsut thought I'd stop in and say a lil something since we all have the 2zz

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:39 am

I thought thath The trannys were the same?? I thought that the Vibe gt 6 speed was the same as the celica gt-s, and that the base vibe 5 spd was the same as the celica gt. ??? Anyway , let us know how the c2 tranny does...and are they selling the whole tranny, or just a new gear set??????????

Lucky317 · Post by **Lucky317** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:33 am

it's not the whoel tranny. it's just the "guts" lol I believe it was the output shaft that was reversed from the celica tranny. we had to do some modification and drilling to get a matrix XRS tranny to fit in the celica. so I'm fairly certain the vibe has the same setup as the matrix so they wouldnt be a direct swap. why they did this is beyond me. It's not to hard of a work around but it does take some effort.

redscourge · Post by **redscourge** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:58 am

do what i do its cheaper have the vibe as a main car and buy a old muscle car without electronics, cheaper on gas in the vibe and eazier to work on muscle car.now youre talking hp.

george · Post by **george** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:45 am

http://www.superchargersonline...ive=1check this out may be the next investment !!!!

223627=8061-05Vibemeet033.jpg

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:32 am

Quote, originally posted by andrewmva »ask any racer that runs fast if they run high compression with a turbo... boost raises your static compression... that is why you make more power... go ahead though... build your 11.5:1 compression engine.. I will run low compression....we will see who goes 10's 1st... ask JE for turbo pistons and see what compression ratio they give you -can you do it??? yes... will you make good power??? NOI would (removed) myself if I saw a vibe run 10's in a quarter mile.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:23 pm

Quote, originally posted by TheShadow »I would (removed) myself if I saw a vibe run 10's in a quarter mile. Yes, It would be amazing!Welcome to the forums, The Shadow, This is an old thread, and Andrew MVA is long gone. There are a few of us who have crossed to darkside of Forced Induction,but none of us have built our motors to handle the 400hp it would take to get our cars into the 10's!!!Maybe someday

capachkid · Post by **capachkid** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:54 pm

Any updates? Are we any closer than 3-4 months ago?

DopeVibeGT · Post by **DopeVibeGT** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:03 pm

Just to update this thread....http://www.turbokits.com/matrix_turbo_kits.html

The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (r1ceburner)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (Nervous_Dog)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (r1ceburner)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (Nervous_Dog)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (Chris)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (satur9)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (r1ceburner)

Re: (syclnjr)

Re: (futseal04)

Re: (Faultline)

Re: (futseal04)

Re: (Faultline)

Re: (Lucky317)

Re: (redscourge)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (andrewmva)

Re: The "rightway" to Turbocharge the 2zz engine (TheShadow)

Re: (capachkid)