Moon and Tunes and Radios

[Ninjaruski]

Everyone,

After a thorough investigation (read: looking under the seat to find the amp and realizing that the tiny speakers are tweeters) I have determined that my 03 vibe has Moon and Tunes. This has caused me to put of buying a new radio until I could figure out what differences in installation would occur between regular installs and M & T.

After scouring the forums, I'm about as confused as I was before. Can someone tell me the main things to look out for when installing a new radio in a M&T equipped vibe? Are there other pieces of equipment that I will need to purchase in addition to the radio itself?

[joatmon]

I have an 03 with M&T but haven't switched to an aftermarket radio. Those who do seem to need to use some sort of level attenuator to keep pops and clicks from getting to the amp, but I don't know why

[sideshowalan]

The only extra thing you need is a line level converter such as a Scosche SLC4. It goes between the aftermarket radio and the wiring harness. It allows you to dial down the amount of power going to each individual speaker.

It will work without the converter but you risk blowing out the speakers as they will be receiving full power from both your new receivers amplifier and the M & T amp under the passenger seat. I went through installing this in a friends' M & T vibe just last month. Tried a PAC brand converter at first but it introduced static that disappeared when using the Scosche unit.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the stock M & T speakers have 2 ohms of resistance while the majority of aftermarket speakers are 4.

[cptnsolo77]

A aftermarket HU is in my future & I read about the turn on wire that needs to be connected with the M&T system. I thought I had all the info I needed & now I ran into this thankfully ! I looked up the Scosche SLC4 unit on crutchfeild & it has some gain adjustments. What are you supposed to adjust them to ? I have aftermarket speakers, do I still need this unit ? Also looks like you will have to identify speaker wires as well. I just want to get all the info I need beforehand for a painless install.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XRVmQy9WQO ... eviews-tab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sideshowalan]

You adjust the gain after everything is hooked up but before stuffing everything back into the dash.
-Turn each dial down to it's lowest setting
-Play some music and turn the stereo up to 3/4 of it's max volume
-Turn one dial by itself until you can just hear the music distort, then slightly turn the dial back.
-Do this for each speaker individually but it's good to at least have both fronts at the same level and both backs at the same.
-You can also use your stereos fade and balance settings to isolate the music to each individual speaker while you're doing this.

Identifying the speaker wires is easy as it's all standardized. The converter, wiring harness and new stereo will all tell you which color wire is for which speaker and if it's + or -.

You'll still need the converter if you have aftermarket speakers. What matters is that you're still using the M & T amplifier. You only don't need the converter if the factory amplifier is out of the equation.

[REN69]

I just bought an 04 Vibe with the same 6speaker system plus amp (minus sub), someone on another thread mentioned that you can use the pre-amp outputs on your new head unit and use pre-cut RCA cables and connect them to the new harness instead of connecting the actual speaker cables to the harness... this way you're providing preamplified signal to the OEM amp like you would to a regular amp... I'm going to try this way and will let you know, the only thing I don't like is the 2ohm speaker and amp output, as this means new speakers would sound really low if they were 4ohm.

I've done quite a few of my own installs as well as other people's cars, including having to rebuild my Supra's harness due to someone hacking it to shiet to install some late 90's CD player.

[GTeezer]

I just upgraded my "Moon & Tunes" system on my '04 GT. I got my system through Crutchfield, which they supplied the free GM adapter harness - which has the blue and white stripe "amp & antenna turn on wire". I got a Kenwood system;
Kenwood Excelon KDC-X796 CD Receiver, Kenwood KFC-P709PS 6-1/2"/6-3/4" Component System (front speakers and tweeters), and Kenwood KFC-1694PS 6-1/2" or 6-3/4" 3-way Speakers (for the rear). They also sent for free the speaker adapter wire harnesses, the 1 DIN bracket to mount the HU, antenna adapter, and speaker adapters. This was my first full system install, and it was fairly easy. The hardest part was prepping the doors with dyna mat and spraying under coat inside the doors for acoustic re-inforcement. I did however had to drill 1 additional hole for each front speaker, as the bracket didn't quite line up with the original holes. For the tweeters, I just used the original metal bracket and glued my new tweeters to it, much like the original ones - with the exception of the screw. With the harness I got, I didn't have to run any additional wires to "turn on the amp" and "power the antenna' as was described in earlier posts I read. The speakers I got handle 240W peak power, so between my receiver and factory amp, I'm pushing about 70W RMS to each speaker, which is the speaker's RMS rating so I did not have any issues whatsoever with the factory amp overdriving and distorting the speakers - although, I'm old school classic rock-metal-alternative so I don't require high power levels for bass "bump" Iv'e had it in about a week now and have cranked it pretty good with no distortion issues - I picked a great system! Good luck guys with your Moon & Tunes upgrades!

GTeezer

[cptnsolo77]

Thanks for the post ! Im planning to pickup a Kenwood Exelon HU as well. Im going the same route as you did...quality speakers, HU & sound deadener. So far with just my factory unit, speakers & 3 doors "deadened" ( I have one door left ) my bass response is REALLY nice with 6.5" speakers. I just want to top it off with a good HU. I like the Kenwoods because they have so many audio settings. Im just curious, how is the bass boost ? Thats a BIG selling point for me cause I dont want to get a sub. If I could squeeze a bit more bass out, that would be great.

[Derf]

Im planning to pickup a Kenwood Exelon HU as well. Im going the same route as you did...quality speakers, HU & sound deadener. So far with just my factory unit, speakers & 3 doors "deadened" ( I have one door left ) my bass response is REALLY nice with 6.5" speakers. I just want to top it off with a good HU. I like the Kenwoods because they have so many audio settings. Im just curious, how is the bass boost ? Thats a BIG selling point for me cause I dont want to get a sub. If I could squeeze a bit more bass out, that would be great.

Same hear, after looking at the different head units, picked a Kenwood because it had better audio settings. A lot of the radios added "flashy" features I would never use, while leaving out good audio adjustments. Got the Kenwood KDC-BT952HD, it was a bit more than I was looking to spend, but plan to use many of the features in the near future. The way I ended setting it up, I have no complaints, the bass is powerful, yet not overwhelming (their is still headroom to turn it up) Being able to save the stock sub box was a huge plus to save cargo room. The stock box will never bump like a 10" setup, but again the revamped bass box level is good match to the rest of the system.

As far as the adapter box, I chose to go custom and get away from the adapter box. Running the Head unit to the new door speakers got away from GM's stock AMP presets and in some ways poor audio response. This added a lot of time to the install to splice /run the wiring, if are looking for an easier install, the converter box is a must. That said, many of the newer high end head units already have 6 RCA outputs on the back, and in fact the Kenwood I chose, had the option of turning off the Head Units internal amp, and using only line level outputs to feed the "cars" system. I left the Head Units amp on, while using the sub out RCA to feed the stock amp.

Link to the thread on how it got installed and image:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[REN69]

I just upgraded my "Moon & Tunes" system on my '04 GT. I got my system through Crutchfield, which they supplied the free GM adapter harness - which has the blue and white stripe "amp & antenna turn on wire". I got a Kenwood system;
Kenwood Excelon KDC-X796 CD Receiver, Kenwood KFC-P709PS 6-1/2"/6-3/4" Component System (front speakers and tweeters), and Kenwood KFC-1694PS 6-1/2" or 6-3/4" 3-way Speakers (for the rear). They also sent for free the speaker adapter wire harnesses, the 1 DIN bracket to mount the HU, antenna adapter, and speaker adapters. This was my first full system install, and it was fairly easy. The hardest part was prepping the doors with dyna mat and spraying under coat inside the doors for acoustic re-inforcement. I did however had to drill 1 additional hole for each front speaker, as the bracket didn't quite line up with the original holes. For the tweeters, I just used the original metal bracket and glued my new tweeters to it, much like the original ones - with the exception of the screw. With the harness I got, I didn't have to run any additional wires to "turn on the amp" and "power the antenna' as was described in earlier posts I read. The speakers I got handle 240W peak power, so between my receiver and factory amp, I'm pushing about 70W RMS to each speaker, which is the speaker's RMS rating so I did not have any issues whatsoever with the factory amp overdriving and distorting the speakers - although, I'm old school classic rock-metal-alternative so I don't require high power levels for bass "bump" Iv'e had it in about a week now and have cranked it pretty good with no distortion issues - I picked a great system! Good luck guys with your Moon & Tunes upgrades!

GTeezer

so you did not bypass the stock amp and used both HU amp and stock amp to drive the speakers? hmm... I was just fearing I would blow the speakers doing so... but I guess if you replace the speakers as well, they would handle more power.

[GTeezer]

Hey guys,

As for the bass boost on my Kenwood HU, it sounds incredible! In my earlier post, I mentioned that I don't listen to a lot of hip hop, so I don't necessarily go for the "bump", however for straight up rock the bass boost #1 seemed to give the best sound, while #2 and #3 boost levels were a little too much for that style of music - however It did not get into distortion until I turned up the volume, and that was on the 3rd setting. I did fire up some old Digital Underground just to play with the bass boost, and that's where that feature REALLY sounded awesome! The 3rd setting again, was a little too much, and kinda saturated the other frequencies at high volume. I'm sure this feature really shines with a subwoofer system, which I did not install. As for the post about not needing line level adapter, when I made my speaker and HU choices, I kept in mind how many watts the factory amp + the HU would be sending to all the speakers, and *so far* have had no issues. The loudest I really listen to is about 75% volume, and I don't run a sub so I'm really not pushing my system to the max. If I do reach the point of blowing speakers, I may consider going for an aftermarket amp, and using the line outs from the HU to drive it.
Rock on fellow Vibe-sters!

GTeezer

[Derf]

Hey guys,

As for the post about not needing line level adapter, when I made my speaker and HU choices, I kept in mind how many watts the factory amp + the HU would be sending to all the speakers, and *so far* have had no issues. The loudest I really listen to is about 75% volume, and I don't run a sub so I'm really not pushing my system to the max. If I do reach the point of blowing speakers, I may consider going for an aftermarket amp, and using the line outs from the HU to drive it.
Rock on fellow Vibe-sters!

GTeezer

When you use the line level adapter, you turn the Head Unit wattage into low level audio. Example, if your head unit put out 25 watts per channel at maximum value, you are only sending milliwatts (thousandth of a watt) to the amp. Same is true when you use the RCA jacks on the back of a head unit, it only sends milliwatts to the attached device. So your wattage is based off the amp, the head unit is just along for the ride. Unfortunately, I have found no documentation for the Vibes amp power output per channel. Best guess is anywhere between 25-50 watts per channel. Being a 2 ohm amp, if you have 4 ohm speakers attached you would cut the effective power in two, so it would be 12.5-25 watts per channel. This is why I bypassed the amp for my door speakers, the head unit was going to be a near tie with the stock amp feeding 4 ohm speakers. By going direct I was also able to use the EQ in the head unit instead of the presets built into the stock amp.

The hardest part was prepping the doors with dyna mat and spraying under coat inside the doors for acoustic re-inforcement. I did however had to drill 1 additional hole for each front speaker, as the bracket didn't quite line up with the original holes. For the tweeters, I just used the original metal bracket and glued my new tweeters to it, much like the original ones - with the exception of the screw.
GTeezer

Same here, I don't know why Crutchfield said their brackets would fit, I had to drill extra holes. Just curious how did the Dyna Mat work out for you? I tried a different product, worked good, but I thought the adhesive they used was a bit lacking, had to heat it up to make it stick. Did you do anything to the hatch area?

[Remy]

Howdy, everyone. I just got a 2007 Vibe that has the Premium Sound 7-speaker package, which I guess means Monsoon since it says Monsoon back by the little subwoofer in the back, but I haven't looked under the passenger seat to see if it has the amp. But I just replaced the head unit with a Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS and it made an amazing difference in the sound quality. Sounds like I replaced the speakers also, but I didn't. I just plugged into the existing harness with the adapter and the difference is amazing.
Of course, I read all posts here before I did the install.

--Remy

[REN69]

Just finished my install, wiring was easy as always... I bypassed the HU's amp and used a pair of cheap RCA's that were the only ones I could find, these are running to the OEM amp... also found a good spot for the BT microphone, fit like a glove.

my only problem now is I've picked up a thump everytime I turn off the radio or car, so far from looking around in searches it sounds like it could either be rca related or ground related... I'm going to try first re-grounding the negative to see if this helps, next I'll try to get better RCA's in case the cheap ones are picking up noise.

here's a quick pic... my only gripe with the scosche dash kit, the darn left side is too far to the right so you can see behind the dash, will try re-aligning it tomorrow... just wanted to do this today and ran out of light, lol.

[cptnsolo77]

Nice job ! the dash kit doesnt leave you a cubby under the HU ? it looks closed ?

Oh wait ! optical illusion...

[REN69]

yeah there's an optional pocket... meaning you can take it off and put a double din unit instead of single din... great kit, just need to fit it better on the sides, I'm going to try that now actually, lol.