Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (with factory amp/speakers)

Stereo, security systems, vehicle electronics, and electrical-related discussions
ragingfish
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Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (with factory amp/speakers)

Post by ragingfish »

This issue seems to come up...a lot.Many moon & tunes owners have reported having NO sound after replacing the factory radio with an aftermarket head unit, but maintaining the factory amplifier and speakers. This issue does NOT apply to installations with the base audio or Navigation systems. This only applies to M&T installations with the outboard 200W amplifier.The most common cause is poor design on earlier versions of the Metra wiring harnesses. These harnesses were missing a crucial wire - a blue wire with a white stripe The blue/white wire remotely turns on the outboard amplifier. To correct this situation, you need to connect the remote turn-on signal from the new head unit to the factory amp turn-on signal wire! The universal color code for remote turn-on for aftermarket audio is, as mentioned above, a blue wire with a white stripe.If you have a more recent version of the Metra harness that has a blue/white wire in it, simply connect that wire on the harness to the blue/white on the head unit, and you should be good to go.If you are missing the wire, then do this: locate Pin B3 on the car's harness*. Pin B3 is the ONLY pin on the harness that has TWO thin black wires coming out the rear side (Referring to the 24-pin harness. The small 12-pin secondary harness remains unused in almost all aftermarket setups). Using a T-tap, quick splice, or soldering (preferred and most highly recommended method with all aftermarket audio installations ), connect the blue/white wire on your head unit's harness to either black wire attached to Pin B3. *Noob Note: "Car harness" refers to the wiring that is within the car, leading to the factory plug. This is what you are plugging your Metra aftermarket harness into, or rather, what gets plugged into the aftermarket harness. It is not removeable (short of cutting the end off) and is connected to the master wiring harness in the car.***PICTURE TO COME THIS WEEKEND***
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kazo123
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by kazo123 »

Is the stock sub amp really 200W? I have the factury moon & Tunes option and want to replace the sub for a JL free air, 10 ". Is it 200W into something funky like 2 Ohms? Do think I can drive this sub with the factury amp?Jeff
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NUBlackshirts
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (kazo123)

Post by NUBlackshirts »

I believe he is talking about the amp that drives the 4 door speakers (IE: the one under the passenger seat). Don't know about the ones with the factory sub.
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (kazo123)

Post by GMJAP »

Quote, originally posted by kazo123 »Is the stock sub amp really 200W? I have the factury moon & Tunes option and want to replace the sub for a JL free air, 10 ". Is it 200W into something funky like 2 Ohms? Do think I can drive this sub with the factury amp?JeffYes, the factory amp drives 2 Ohm speakers.
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mathteacher'04vibe
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (GMJAP)

Post by mathteacher'04vibe »

When "fading" to the rears, I find it hard to believe the factory amp powers the rears. My '04 has minimal sound produced by the rears. Thanks for the tips.
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shryocdj
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (mathteacher'04vibe)

Post by shryocdj »

Is it true that to install an aftermarket head unit, will cause the loss of the door chime/lights are on chime without some ridiculous part?
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (shryocdj)

Post by ragingfish »

Quote, originally posted by shryocdj »Is it true that to install an aftermarket head unit, will cause the loss of the door chime/lights are on chime without some ridiculous part?No. The vibe is not "true" GM. It doesn't have that kind of setup.
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shryocdj
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by shryocdj »

Thank God, I've been wanting to switch out my HU but Circuit City said I would need the 200 dollar adapter or something crazy. So just need the harness and mounting kit, right?
nufc
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by nufc »

Hi RagingFish,I really would like to get a new deck and new with HU installation. Can you help me with some pictures and instalation step?Thanks
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Post by dianebrat »

FYI, I was prepared so I would not wind up with the "no power to M&T amp" problem.At least I thought I was since I had an older Metra harness, and it had a Blue/white wire, but it was located at A3, not B3, I moved it to the right spot, and everything worked great.
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schnurmac
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Post by schnurmac »

Im A Noob here. I just had new HU installed in my wife's vibe. It sounds great but begins to distort at higher volume levels. HU is JVC HDDR1. Speaker Polk db 6501 component for fronts and db 521 for the rear. I asked the installer how the amp would come into play since its a factory amp. He said it is wired in the METRA harness. I have been reading the amp drives 2 ohm speakers the polks are 4 ohms. Is this a problem? It sounds decent at low levels but at high levels I have to drop the bass level to 0 and it still distorts. The installer had to cut the speakers out of the brackets that sit off the door. Any suggestions?I installed the same HU in my truck with no amp and I can crank the volume in it. The JVC has seperate settings for the front treble and bass and separate setting for rear treble and bass.Also has low and high setting for the internal amp gain. Seperate sub out with gain adj on HU.Also can you adjust the gain on the factory amp? Sorry for so many questions.
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schnurmac
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Post by schnurmac »

I guess this thread is dead. Its been a week and no response.
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Leon_SPb_Rus
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by Leon_SPb_Rus »

Thx a lot.Very useful!Especially when i don't have Metra harness and can't buy it:)
fiveoh
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (Leon_SPb_Rus)

Post by fiveoh »

I bought my Vibe used. It has an AM/FM/XM CD head unit (no MP3) and a subwoofer in the right rear corner panel with "Monsoon" on it. Is this the M&T package or the equivalent?
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scherry2
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (fiveoh)

Post by scherry2 »

yes it is
jgerhardt
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by jgerhardt »

I installed my HU with above instructions for the blue and white wire and I got sound, only there is a hissing that comes out as well.Oh and I have the '05 vive with M+T package and I am installing the Pioneer DEH-P4000UB
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (jgerhardt)

Post by keithvibe »

Quote, originally posted by jgerhardt »I installed my HU with above instructions for the blue and white wire and I got sound, only there is a hissing that comes out as well.Oh and I have the '05 vive with M+T package and I am installing the Pioneer DEH-P4000UBlook at my threadhttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=34653
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imspace2
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (mathteacher'04vibe)

Post by imspace2 »

I have the same effect on my '09 GT the stereo could be much better it just needs quality speakers. A local car-audio shop tells me that in order to install "ANY" aftermarket speakers, I need another amp, is that true?
04vibeman
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Post by 04vibeman »

what type amp is standard with a moon and tune?
wayofthemetal
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stereo wiring help needed

Post by wayofthemetal »

2003 Vibe6speaker, no sub, no navigation200w amp (factory)SCOSCHE GM035 wiring connectorJVC KD-G430 head unitThe random white wire I have learned through the threads is not to be used there for is not being.The diagram on my head unit says blue/white is remote and orange/white is illumination. The wiring harness on the head unit had no orange /white wire or any orange wire for that matter. The only blue wire i have has no white line; it is just straight blue.Besides all that I went ahead and connected the straight blue to the blue/white on the SCOSCHE harness. And still there is no sound. I do have power. The pin for the amp turn on matches that on the SCOSCHE. It is not broken or bent as far as i can tell. i even tried adding an inline fuse between the straight blue wire on the head unit and the blue/white wire on the SCOSCHE harness. I tried this because when i bought the (used, though I tested it and it DOES work) head unit the straight blue wire had the remains of an inline fuse hanging off it.As stated before the head unit diagram lists an orange/white wire that does not exist comming out of the back of the unit. There are no extra wires. I had all eight wires for the speakers matched up fine. A battery, ground, and accessory wires matched up.Left over on the SCOSCHE harness I have orange/white ( labeled dimmer) and straight orange (labeled Illumination/dash light. That have no wires to connect to on the head unit.I tested the head unit by hooking the battery ground and accessory wires up the the car harness and hooking a set of speaker wires to a spare speaker lying around and sound did produce ever so nicely.Factory stereo is back in for now and works just fine other than the led display now displays nothing.I also went through and made sure all the pins correspoded between the SCOSCHE harness and the car harness. As far as i can tell all do. The only difference i noticed was the car factory harness has two extra pins being used I can find no reference to. Looking at the car harness female slots facing me (no pun intended) bottom row left to right the fifth and sixth spots have wires in them.I did find a reference to the fifth over black/white sensitivity control. It stated "DO NOT USE THIS WIRE! The factory radio and amplifier have a speed compensating volume system that can be defeated." Well that is fine because the SCOSCHE harness had no corresponding pin/wire so it is not in use.There is still the sixth wire over that I see no reference to. My car did come with remote start It may have something to do with that; i do not know.Any help or thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Re: stereo wiring help needed (wayofthemetal)

Post by keithvibe »

If my memory serves me correctly the orange/white wire is what connects to the factory harness's amp wire. From the aftermarket harness. It's been awhile since i did my install. If your headunit doesn't have this, thats the issue.Can you post photos of what you have wired where, focused enough that I can look at what wire you have connected?
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wayofthemetal
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Re: stereo wiring help needed (keithvibe)

Post by wayofthemetal »

The missing orange/white wire is labeled on the head unit diagram as the illumination wire. Orange/white is labeled on my adapter wiring kit as dimmer and straight orange is labeled on my adapter wiring kit as illumination. The blue/white wire on my adapter wiring kit is labeled amp turn on. There is supposed to be a blue/white wire on my head unit for remote (max 200mA) but instead I have a plain blue wire that is not listed on my head unit wiring diagram. I tried connecting the plain blue wire from my head unit to the blue/white wire on my adapter wiring kit. When i got the head unit there where remnants of an inline fuse on the straight blue wire; so I tried that as well. The battery, ground, accessory, and 8 speakers wires all matched up fine.
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Post by wayofthemetal »

Ok, I hooked the power antenna and amp turn on wires from the car directly to the 12volt constant; and now I have sound. I just taped off the blue wire coming out of my head unit. What ever it is supposed to be doing it isn't so I gave up on it.The result is I have sound but alot of white noise. I turned base, mid, and treble as far down as it will go. Volume on the head unit as far down as it goes without being at o. Turning the volume to zero I can hear the amp turn off through the speakers ever so slightly. Volume turned to 1 I can hear the music pretty well still. If I pause the cd of iPod I can hear there is alot of white noise coming through the speakers like the volume it turned up too high. I believe this to be because the head unit has its own amp so two amps are running. There is no way to turn the amp off on my head unit.The head unit must be completely off before I start the car other wise when the amp kicks on even with volume turned to 0 all the speakers POP! very badly.I'm going to check and make sure the ground wire is connected as good as it can be.I'm also going to try and see if I connect the power antenna and amp turn on wire to the accessory 12volt wire coming out of the head unit instead of the 12volt constant if that will be better.Other than that the only thing I can think to do is try and bypass the factory amp entirely. Which I tried before and only the tweeters and rear right speakers would work that way. Or, buy a new head unit; for the one I have was used and the whole problem i'm having could be that even though it works its wire harness coming out of the back may actually belong to some other unit. The first clue to this was from the head unit's diagram saying there should be a blue/white wire(remote) and no blue wire when in fact there is a blue wire! and also that there should be an orange wire and there is no orange wire(illumination).Any suggestions or warnings for that matter would be appreciated.
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Re: (wayofthemetal)

Post by ColonelPanic »

Don't leave the audio and antenna amplifiers wired to constant 12v as they will be on even when the ignition is off... Battery drain will result. Best to connect them to a 12v source switched with the ignition.As far as your white noise goes, you're going to need a speaker level converter of some sort to attenuate the signal coming from your radio before it makes it to the amp. Your aftermarket HU pipes too much power into the factory amp, which then amplifies what is already amplified. Lots of noise.
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wayofthemetal
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Re: (ColonelPanic)

Post by wayofthemetal »

ok I wired the power antenna, amp turn on, and accessory wire coming from the vibe to the accessory ignition switch wire on my head unit. No more popping when starting the car.I still have a lot of white noise from the two amps. I've seen those speaker level converters somewhere but he one I saw used RCA wires coming out of it. Any ideas if the make them for individual stereo wires going in and coming out and where can I find one to buy? And, should it be installed between the head unit and the amp or between the amp and the speakers?
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Post by wayofthemetal »

also is there any way to adjust the lvl of output on the factory amp? Does it have any adjusters on it?
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Re: (wayofthemetal)

Post by BlueCrush »

I have a PAC OEM2 that I am selling as I do not need it. Let me know. I'll sell it for $20 shipped.
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Re: (BlueCrush)

Post by wayofthemetal »

I'll get back with you in about a week if you still have it man strapped for cash till then
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Post by HighMileVibe »

I have the M&T package and just installed a Jensen AM/FM/DVD. Note: if you have preamp outputs (RCA), you do NOT need a speaker level converter like the PAC-OEM or Scosche. You simply need one RCA patch cord you can strip down to bare wire on one end. These connect to the 4 channel preamp outputs (F L&R, R L&R) via RCA and to your metra wire harness to the correct speakers + and -. My Jensen has 2V preamp outputs it works fine. Some other head units have 3 or even 4 V coming from their preamp outputs and could overdrive the factory amp at higher levels.The solution here is a resistive attenuator: 1 kOhm in series, to a 5kOhm in parallel with the metra speaker wires. This provides a 6 dB drop and should knock down the 4V output down to 2V.Or you can buy four at: http://www.parts-express.com/p...6-234

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Re: more info on the amp?

Post by spacemonkey »

What are the specs of the factory amp? I hear it is 200W. Is that peak? Is that total or per channel? I assume it is total, is that correct? Anyone know manufacturer?If it is only 200W peak total, that is the same as the headunit I am installing -- 200W peak total (50W peak x 4 channels). Please correct me if I am wrong, but is the factory amp doing anything in this case? Is it making better sound, or just redundant? If redundant, is there any way to bypass it?Thanks for any thoughts on this, and thanks for the advice, I am learning a lot from this forum!
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Wolfman213
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Post by Wolfman213 »

Really the only way to bypass the factory amp is to run new wires, therefore unless you just feel like riping into things, then you're better of just getting the Schosche or PAC adapters. The factory amp is still doing work, however, that's why you have the adapter to attenuate what's going to the amp as mentioned in the other threads. It's basically one of those tings you just have to deal with or go crazy and totally run a new audio system, which a few have already done.
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (ragingfish)

Post by vibe_rator »

I have M&T, but have ditched the tweets. I want to go straight from a new HU to the door speakers, but don't know how to ditch the onboard AMP. Do I have to cut the ends off of the amp connectors and splice the wires together? On another note, I have a MONO-AMP and want to use it with the factory HU (until I get the new HU installed). The amp has a LOC with it. Is it possible to wire it up with the factory HU? If so, how do I do it?Thanks.
bonesmurones
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip

Post by bonesmurones »

Hi, I'm new here and looking to do my first HU install. I have an 05 Vibe with the Monsoon system, and I want to install the Pioneer AVH-4200DVD but keep the rest of the factory system. The HU has 4 internally amplified outputs @ 50 watts each (peak) and 3 pairs of 4-volt preamp outs. I was just wondering which is the best way to wire everything.Should I go with a PAC SOEM-4 type option and just use the internally amplified outputs? Or is there a way to use my preamp outs to send to the factory amp for better sound quality?Is it possible to run from the RCA pre-outs into the wiring harness to send a line level signal to the amp? I assume this would be the best option all around, but if not please say so and suggest an option that is.The part that confuses me if I was to go with the PAC SOEM-4 is that the monsoon system has 6 speakers plus the sub, but this and any other line output converter I've been able to find only have 4 channels. How would one wire everything in this case? Do the 2 pairs of front speakers share a channel or what? Then what about the sub? Does it get run through the line output converter? If not how does one handle that?Sorry for all the questions, I just thought I had everything figured out for a quick and easy install, only to find that I did in fact have the monsoon system to complicate the whole deal.Thanks in advance for the help!
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (bonesmurones)

Post by schnurmac »

Wish I could help but the moon and tunes is a complicated system. As far as I know you would have to wire in pre outs at the factory amp or trace the wires back to the HU. I have removed the amp looked at it and put it back. Nothing made sense about it. I bought the wiring harness for my wifes JVC HD HU. Installed an amp and sub in the rear. Her Vibe didn't have a sub in the moon and tunes package. Sorry for not helping.
Wife's 2003 Pontiac VibeJVC KD HDR1Polk mids and tweets.Kicker 350w Mono amp.10" Infinity Sub.
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (bonesmurones)

Post by keithvibe »

the front door speakers and tweaters share a line there is no sub output from the head unit. You use the amp turn on/sub woof line on the pac 2 to turn on the amp and run the sub.
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip (bonesmurones)

Post by spacemonkey »

bonesmurones, the factory wiring goes through the amp, so I don't think you would get significantly better sound if you ran a new pre-amp out and it would be more difficult. In particular, since you are using the stock speakers, I am guessing that it won't make a difference.Do give some thought to upgrading the speakers at some point. I was really surprised at how low quality they were.
2004 Pontiac Vibe Pioneer Premier receiver Polk Audio speakers
bonesmurones
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Re: Moon & Tunes Owners: Aftermarket HU Installation Tip

Post by bonesmurones »

Awesome! Looks like I'll be installing this HU once I finish for the semester! I'll post some pics of the finished product sometime in mid-may. Thanks for the help everyone! Love these forums!
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Post by houseofbugs »

I wish I had read this before installing my stereo about 6 months ago. The guy from crutchfield told me to just install it normally and not worry about how the stock amp is wired and it will compensate. Well I don't think that it did considering I now have no sound coming out of my front lower speakers anymore. I am pretty sure I blew my stock AMP. Any ideas?
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Re: (houseofbugs)

Post by spacemonkey »

Did you have sound out of all speakers when you first installed it? If you have sound out of your other speakers it could just be a loose wire, perhaps.
2004 Pontiac Vibe Pioneer Premier receiver Polk Audio speakers
houseofbugs
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Post by houseofbugs »

I did and it was working great until yesterday. I don't know if its the amp or wiring. I blast my music all the time so I would think that it would have gone out sooner if it didn't accept the high level input. I am going to take a look at it later today. If its a loose wire I will be glad. If not does anyone have a M&T amp that they would part with?
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Re: (houseofbugs)

Post by NascarXprt »

ok so the black wire hanging of the Scoshe converter, is that the ground wire or jus an extra one.. the intruction book says nothing about it.
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Hurple
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Just installed a new head unit, this is what I learned.

Post by Hurple »

Just installed a new head unit in my beautiful newly acquired 2006 Vibe. Just wanted to make note of a couple of things:1) It's easy to move wires around in the aftermarket harness http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KL6MXS. I wasn't using the orange (dimmer) wire and so I took the harness apart, pulled the orange wire out and put it back in the B3 position (third from the left on the lower level, looking from the front with the little ears facing up - the one with two black wires entering on the car harness side as described above). Then I soldered the blue-white wire from the radio to the orange one that now sits in the B3 position. That way you don't have to reach behind the dash to hard wire to the black wire, you can just solder to your harness and plug and play.2)I installed a fairly basic but nice sounding Pioneer DEH-1300 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDO2LM and it sounds great with no line level. virtually no hiss at all.3) I have the Monsoon package with the amp but no moonroof. Just so people out there know that you can have just the Tunes without the Moon. That might make it easier to identify.4) I'm a total noob and this is such a great resource, I wouldn't have been able to do it without all of your help so thank you.
playzkeyz
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Wiring Diagram

Post by playzkeyz »

Found a wiring diagram on another site. Haven't checked it's accuracy yet.

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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Post by benhamean »

So despite reading this, I'm still confused. Here's the low down.Got a Pioneer 3300UB for my M&T 2004 from Crutchfield, they send you all the goodies like harness and antenna adapter etc.Called them for assistance on what to solder where and was told to line up all the colors. Soldered, Taped, Stuck in the car, grounded black wire, then turned on but alas no sound.Probably this amp turn on situation.I soldered all the colors on the HU and left no spares there, besides a blue wire with tape at the end labeled remote control (for the remote? right?). What do I do now?
2004 moon&tunes Pontiac Vibe.WTB navy blue tailgate & gascap door.
schnurmac
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:20 am

Re: (benhamean)

Post by schnurmac »

You wont have any sound with out that wire connected. Its the remote wire to tell the amp to turn on. You can wire that to the fuse panel to something that is triggered by your ignition. You can have power and ground connected but you wont have power until you turn the key to on and power is hot on the remote wire. You should have a remote wire on the factory amp wiring harness. If not like I said you want to tap something that only turns on once your ignition is on the acc position before the on position. like the cigarette lighter only works when key is in the acc position.
Wife's 2003 Pontiac VibeJVC KD HDR1Polk mids and tweets.Kicker 350w Mono amp.10" Infinity Sub.
benhamean
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Post by benhamean »

Got it! It was the blue/white wire. System is running fine in 2004 M&T, a little low white noise can be heard at times, but I suppose that's expected.
2004 moon&tunes Pontiac Vibe.WTB navy blue tailgate & gascap door.
FATE
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Just installed a new head unit, this is what I learned. (Hurple)

Post by FATE »

1) It's easy to move wires around in the aftermarket harness http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KL6MXS. I wasn't using the orange (dimmer) wire and so I took the harness apart, pulled the orange wire out and put it back in the B3 position (third from the left on the lower level, looking from the front with the little ears facing up - the one with two black wires entering on the car harness side as described above). Then I soldered the blue-white wire from the radio to the orange one that now sits in the B3 position. That way you don't have to reach behind the dash to hard wire to the black wire, you can just solder to your harness and plug and play. Had no sound with my new JVC - now I'm rockin'... This worked perfectly, thanks Hurple!
Ciejma
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 pm

Post by Ciejma »

I okay I have done all that movin my wire and such now trynin to install aftermarket amp cuz I want more bump. Where do I put the remote wire from the amp when I connect it to the other it don't work no power.
schnurmac
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:20 am

Re: (Ciejma)

Post by schnurmac »

Read the my post and the one above. Blue wire is remote wire. It tells the amp to turn on. Wire it to your fise box or lighter. To any source that has power when the key it in the on on position. If not your amp will be on constantly.
Wife's 2003 Pontiac VibeJVC KD HDR1Polk mids and tweets.Kicker 350w Mono amp.10" Infinity Sub.
Ciejma
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 pm

Post by Ciejma »

Found out that it was a bad + wire through investigation. However after getting the power on the amp it quit. I got a MTX amp and now when I try to check the power it wont work. Could it be possible that I blew my amp?Possibly put it into protection mode? I had the two remote wires connected to the a/f harness I moved the remote wire to the correct B3 location. How do you have your wifes '03 amp and sub wired ? Is the remote wire connected to the radios?
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