CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

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rgnjc
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CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:41 pm

I'm having some intermittent vibrations in the car when I accelerate above 60 mph. It doesn't happen all the time, and it comes and goes. I have brand new tires and the alignment is good, and the brakes/rotors are all good. However, upon inspection one of the front CV axle is leaking from the internal boot. This axle has a decent amount of play in it and I can move it around quite a bit in all directions. The other side has some minor amount of play in it, but not nearly as bad. No clicking/clunking when turning though. Tie rods and ball joints all seem be in good shape and don't have any play in them, so I want to go ahead and replace both of my front CV axles.

Does anybody know much about CV axles from Autozone (Duralast), NAPA (Max Drive), or Advance Auto (Carquest)? OEMs are too expensive for me (over $400 each) so I want to go with an aftermarket (about $80-100 each). There is a lot of conflicting information out there - some people swear aftermarkets are trash, others say they have no problems. Does anybody have any compelling reason to go with one brand versus another? Are they all the same? Some people have suggested they are all rebranded Cardone CV axles. Some have suggested the new ones (chinese manufactured) are crap, whereas the remanufactured ones are rebuilt with OEM parts. I'm not sure what to believe! Can somebody shed some light on this and help make the choice a bit easier for me?

My car is a 2005 Pontiac Vibe AWD w/ 165k miles.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:24 am

I have no experience replacing the axles on an AWD. I have used the Duralast Gold axles (new) on other cars, and was satisfied. However, on my 03 and 04 GT's, the passenger side axle is not balanced, and I have a vibration/shimmy at 20-25mph, and then again at 40-50mph. I will eventually replace it with a QRP axle from MonkeyWrenchRacing, but have not done so yet.

The good news with axles from most parts stores, is they have a lifetime warranty. So if it does give you issues, you can swap it out for another.

As for the rear axles, the internet likely doesn't list it, but the 09-10 AWD uses the same axles, as it uses the exact same rear differential. :D

The Toyota Venza AWD also uses the rear diff.

PS: check your rear subframe for rust... viewtopic.php?t=47305
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:43 pm

Thanks for the recommendation. Monkey Wrench Racing does have CV axles for the Matrix, which would work normally here, but I called them and the ones they have are only for the FWD, which aren't compatible with my AWD. Bummer!

When replacing both front CV axles with Duralast ones, how can you tell which side the shimmy is coming from? I will probably end up going with one of the chain store brands, and if they give me a shimmy I can easily pull it and get a replacement. I'm just not sure how to best identify which side is out of balance. Is it one of those things that is obvious just by driving, you can tell which side its coming from? I'm really not keen on the idea of going through the effort and cost investment to replace these things only to have a car that isn't driving smooth.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:53 am

rgnjc wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:43 pm
When replacing both front CV axles with Duralast ones, how can you tell which side the shimmy is coming from?
I only replaced the passenger side as it had a torn boot, so I know which it is. Plus, the passenger side is a longer axle with a carrier bearing, and that's typically more likely to have an issue. I believe front passenger side on the AWD also has a carrier bearing?
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:15 pm

Well I went with the autozobe duralast CV axles. Having a few problems and I need some advice.

On the driver side cv axle, it popped out no problem, great! However when I pulled it out and peeked in the hole, there was a loose spring. Im not sure what this is, but I pulled it out, see pictures below. Is this some sort of spring that goes with the seal?

On the passenger side, I cannot get this damn CV axle out! I'm working with a rather short pry bar but it just slips off every time I give it a hammer. Any suggestions? Maybe go get a CV axle puller loaner tool? Is there a trick to this?

Also, the passenger side had a c-clip retainer, but not the driver side. Is this right?
20200422_185630.jpg
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by SSizler » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:16 pm

That spring looks like the type they put on the inside of seals, so yes, it probably belongs on the seal in the photo.
You may be able to get it snapped back into place, but more likely will be purchasing and installing a new seal.
I have no experience with removing Vibe axles, so I can't comment about that.
Good luck with the repair!
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:05 am

Yes, that spring is part of the axle seal. You might as well remove the whole seal and go buy a new one.

As for removing the passenger axle, try rotating it while tugging/hitting it with the hammer. These axles have a circlip holding them in, and by rotating it, you are shifting that clip. If you're still having difficulty, get a second set of hands to help rotate it while you hit it with the hammer.

I believe the AWD also has a carrier bearing on the axle. Make sure you undo that too. :D

When reinstalling, lather up the carrier bearing bracket with some anti-seize so removal is easier. Also put a dab of grease on the circlip and center it on the axle, and it'll just fall right into place.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:46 pm

Well I spent this afternoon hammering on the passenger CV, and still cannot get it out! Yes I did take out the bolt that secures the carrier bearing. Problem is I cant really get my pry bar to bite onto anything because the CV axle shape is kind of rounded and there isnt much of a lip to it. I also went and got a loaner CV axle puller and slide hammer, but I cant get it on there in any way that allows me to actually use the slide hammer. There is too much stuff in the way. If the bearing is pressed into the transfer case this tightly, I'm not sure what I'd do to get the new one in if I were to get this out! I may give it another shot, but I'm getting close to giving up and taking it to the mechanic to get the one side done.

Is the snap ring on the outside? There is a c-clip retainer on the outside that I took off, but is there another that I'm overlooking ? I feel like I'm missing something, it shouldn't be this difficult to get out, especially considering how easily the driver side popped out.

I'm tempted to go get a $25 2-ton winch from harbor freight and loop the cable around the back side of the inner CV joint a few times, then anchor the winch to a tree, and extract this thing by force. I should probably take the car off the jack stand though.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:04 am

The new one will likely glide right in.Look at the end of the axle that goes into the transmission. See the little semi-circle clip.. It is at the very left side of this image and sits in the small lip.

Image

If it is not what you're fighting, it's the carrier bearing. Is the axle free from the carrier bearing bracket? I cannot remember exactly how the bracket on this is, but it should have a few bolts you undo, that "opens" it, and lets the axle slide in/out.

Your axle should look like this.

Image

Beside that inner joint is the carrier bearing. If you're replacing the entire axle, beat on the carrier bearing for leverage. You could try unbolting the entire carrier bearing bracket from the car and removing it that way if it's stuck in the bracket. Then, remove the bracket off the axle on the workbench.

As always, don't forget some penetrating oil to help. If PB Blaster doesn't cut it, a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF is a pretty potent concoction for removing corrosion adhesion.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:28 pm

Update: Complete fail, I could not get the passenger side CV axle out. I was able to get a working slide hammer on it though. I used a U-bolt around the CV axle, with a long threaded rod through it. I pounded on that thing a long time, and eventually the U-bolt snapped. The CV axle didn't budge a millimeter! I admit defeat, and I'll be taking it to the mechanic this week. I'm sure the mechanic will zip it off in minutes with a pneumatic jackhammer.

Response to above: The carrier bearing doesn't have a carrier bearing bracket, like other toyotas. The carrier bearing slips into the transfer case, so its not something I can remove or open up.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:29 am

rgnjc wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Update: Complete fail, I could not get the passenger side CV axle out. I was able to get a working slide hammer on it though. I used a U-bolt around the CV axle, with a long threaded rod through it. I pounded on that thing a long time, and eventually the U-bolt snapped. The CV axle didn't budge a millimeter! I admit defeat, and I'll be taking it to the mechanic this week. I'm sure the mechanic will zip it off in minutes with a pneumatic jackhammer.

Response to above: The carrier bearing doesn't have a carrier bearing bracket, like other toyotas. The carrier bearing slips into the transfer case, so its not something I can remove or open up.
Keep us posted on the outcome. Ask the mechanic how he was able to finagle it out, so you know for next time!
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:52 am

The saga continues! I took the car to the mechanic and he called me back and said they cannot get the CV axle out either. He said the carrier bearings are really jammed in there and they basically don't want to force it either because of the risk of cracking the transfer case. They offered to leave the carrier bearing and shaft in, and replace all other components with those from the new axle shaft. I turned that down, in case that does not eliminate the shimmy I get above 65 mph. I am going to take the car to AAMCO, who replaced my transmission about 6 months ago. It will cost much more, but at least the transmission is covered under warranty by them in case something does get damaged. We'll see what happens in a few days!
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by tpollauf » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:54 am

This sounds like a common problem with replacing the passenger side. My 04 Gt had both replaced a few months ago (145k miles) and the pass side was a B I T C H, to say the least! Eventually they got it out and lost a lot of tranny fluid in the process. Mine was the six speed manual where you're dealing with an automatic. Keep us posted on the outcome. Hope all goes well ;)
Last edited by tpollauf on Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:09 am

Let whoever gets it out know that you want the carrier bearing and bracket lubed up with some anti-seize. That should alleviate problems next time.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Fri May 01, 2020 10:47 am

AAMCO got the CV axle out! It was not easy, the guy who worked on it said it was very difficult to remove. Didn't say how though but was not surprised when I told him I couldn't do it myself. From the looks of it, they used heat and took an air hammer to it, but also cracked the bearing casing sleeve. Of course, the axle I bought from Autozone is not the right size, so I'm shopping around for the right part now. The one I bought the carrier bearing is too small and the shaft length is too short. Though, I measured the compressed shaft lengths and it seemed right, so who knows.

Also attached is the new CV axle I bought. Judging by the looks of it, the old one has this sleeve that fits around the carrier bearing (the cracked piece, you can see the C-clip fits into it), and the new one doesn't have that. Am I missing something here? Is the sleeve a separate part, or should that come with the correct CV axle if I get the right part? The guys at AAMCO said the part I bought was too small, but the one I bought looks like any aftermarket part available.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by vibrochimp » Sun May 03, 2020 6:24 am

I'm working on the same project. CV axle is still stuck in the housing.
It looks like AAMCO removed the bearing carrier along with the axle and bearing.
The bearing (part number 90363A0007) does not have an alignment hole or snap ring retainer in it, so it looks like a separate part.
I also can't find a part number for the carrier / sleeve, so maybe it is part of the transaxle housing.
Maybe you could get the sleeve pressed off, clean it up and reuse it?

For what its worth, the snap ring, retaining bolt, and bearing are shown along with the axle in this diagram, but no carrier sleeve:
https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2006_ ... -4302.html

I'll have to hope for the best and try to get the bearing out by itself.
Thanks for sharing the saga and photos.

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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by jolt » Sun May 03, 2020 6:09 pm

I think you need to make a trip to the Toyota dealer and ask for a picture break down of the parts for the axle AND for the transmission case where the axle inters the transmission. In the picture you posted, you can see the groove in your outer sleeve where the retaining ring would be to hold the bearing into the case. If my supposition is correct, that outer sleeve on the bearing is a support/wear surface in the transmission case. This part is part of the case casting. It is molded into the case when the case aluminum is pored. It is not a serviceable or replaceable part. If that part was just pressed into the case and the snap ring was put in to hold the bearing and axle, the whole bearing would just pull this sleeve out of the case. That is why there is a hole and groove in the outside of that sleeve, so the pored aluminum can bond to the sleeve outside surface; making the sleeve part of the case.

Check with Toyota but do not be surprised if they can not find that part as it is most likely cast into the case of the transmission. Just getting another sleeve and driving into the case will not hold the axle shaft/bearing in as the driven in sleeve will pull out. The sleeve will have to be pinned in place, if that would even be possible, so that the sleeve is part of the case and can not move or spin.

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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Sun May 03, 2020 8:30 pm

I'm not sure its part of the transaxle case casting, considering it pulled out of the transaxle case before the bearing pulled out of the sleeve. If the sleeve were meant to stay in the transaxle case, I'm sure it wouldn't have pulled out before the carrier bearing did.

The 2 grooves in the sleeve I think are to align it into the transmission when inserted, and the hole aligns up with the security bolt on the transmission which is allowed to pass through the sleeve and tighten down to secure the carrier bearing. The security bolt would make it impossible for the sleeve to pull out, and the carrier bearing is secured by the c-clip and the security bolt. The security bolt is 43457A in vibrochimps schematic. Of course this begs the question, is there a sleeve in the schematic of the transfer case?

AAMCO is going to call me tomorrow and give me an update, if the sleeve being removed presents a problem I'm sure they will have something to say about it. Regardless, I'll ask them whats up with that and whether it will be replaced or just put back in with the new CV axle.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Mon May 04, 2020 2:08 am

I'm with Jolt on this one. That is definitely part of the carrier bearing bracket/trans case. The Toyota P/N for a front right AWD CV axle is 43410-12630.

https://parts.conicellitoyotaofconshoho ... dhcw%3D%3D

As per the same website, I found a diagram that shows a snap ring beside that carrier bearing.

https://parts.conicellitoyotaofconshoho ... dhcw%3D%3D
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Mon May 04, 2020 2:12 am

Also stumbled across this exploded diagram. It appears that part "N" on the left is a snap ring that retains it close to that bracket.

https://parts.toyota.com/images/parts/t ... 43410C.png
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by rgnjc » Tue May 12, 2020 10:46 am

Resolved this issue and just wanted to follow up on how it played out.

As I previously said, AAMCO got the part out, but they said it was very stubborn, and it pulled out the sleeve that slips into the transfer case. They got a remanufactured axle and installed that unit. They didn't say anything about the sleeve, and it never really came up in our discussion. The guy I talked to in the front office didn't do the job so he didnt know anything about it, but it seems though that it wasnt any real issue re-installing it. They slathered everything up in anti-seize and installed the new axle. The car rides smooth again so I'm glad that fixed it, though it cost me $600 (~300 labor, 300 part). It sucks that I had to pony up so much money, but I could not do the passenger side alone, so it was worth it. I attached a picture for all to see. As seen in the picture, the security bolt secures the sleeve and the bearing. The c-clip secures the carrier into the sleeve, and the security bolt secures the sleeve/bearing into the transfer case.

I think the previous comments may be right, in that the sleeve was not meant to come out of the transfer case. But in my experience, it doesn't seem to be a problem to reinstall it, as long as nothing is cracked or damaged. Just for reference, here is a video of a fella that had the same issue as me with the 2004 Toyota Matrix, except he cracked the transfer case when he tried pulling the axle/carrier bearing/sleeve out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUuEVCypT1s

So if anybody tries to service this and has the same issue, I would use penetrating oil and giving it a lot of time to soak in. AAMCO used heat and then an air hammer to jackhammer it out. When reinstalling, be sure to use anti-seize! I'm just glad to be done with the front CV axles, but I have to turn my attention to some other issues now.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by zbyers » Wed May 13, 2020 2:25 am

Definitely sucks ponying over the money for it, but it's done now. And hopefully if it were to happen again, it should be easier with the anti-seize and the know how. I will have to take a gander at mom's AWD, so I know what to expect should something happen.
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Re: CV axles - aftermarket choices for 2005 AWD Vibe.

Post by vibrochimp » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:59 pm

Thanks rgnjc for the updates and glad to hear it worked out.

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