2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

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mrivera95
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

Howdy yall,
I have recently purchased a 2004 Vibe GT with 180,000 miles on it from an auto broker about a week ago. To help yall interpret what my problem may be, let me explain the scenerio I have been in.

After test driving and purchasing the vehicle, I drove about 40 miles to my parents house. From there, I would drive another 300 miles to my house. I made a stop about 5 miles away from my parents house and when I went to leave, the check engine light came on about 2 minutes into the drive. I immediately took it to oreillys to have the codes read. The code is a P0171. I then drove to my parents house. As i was getting ready to leave, I turned the car on and in about 10 seconds, the battery light came on and the idle started lowering. I turned the car off, and when I went to turn it off, the car would not crank. The battery and alternator were tested and resulted in being good. After a jump, the car was back on the road and i headed 300 miles back to my house.

After a full tank of gas, and weekend driving, the check engine light went off. The only thing suspicious was that there is an extra crank when starting sometimes. Nothing too crazy for an older car. Between the weekend driving and the weekend driving, I must have driven for about 500 miles.

At this point, Im thinking that there may have been a loose battery connection, but that wouldnt explain the P0171 code even though it is gone now.

I went to run errands, so there was city driving and going in and out of stores driving to and from. I ran into a store real quick with the car running to keep the AC going. I went to leave and I notice that my radio restarted. Then i start noticing that the AC weakens, the radio turns of and the gauges bounce like they do when you initially turn the key as im coming to a stop. Once I start driving, the AC starts blowing and the radio turns on again. I park in a parking lot, run into a store, and when I come out the car wont start. No crank no nothing. I take the battery cables off and back on to check the connection and theres still nothing. I had the car jumped and then it went back to running fine. The check engine light is back on.

Two things with the car that i know are not original is that there is a cold air intake which doesnt have a MAF sensor, a kenwood stereo head unit, and there is a subwoofer in the back right panel that looks like it may have been part of the original car trim but I do not know.

My coworker who is an electrical engineer and works on his own cars says he is 95% sure that it is the 02 sensors and that when they go bad that they can leak voltage, which would explain why it runs, but then wants to die when already started and then wont crank.

Any input would be greatly appreciated as I want to get this fixed as soon as possible. IF needed I may take it to the dealership since they would be the most experienced with pontiacs specifically and this problem isnt black and white.
Bookworm
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by Bookworm »

I'd wonder a bit about the main ground connections - but I'm not the best at that one. If you want to check it, just follow the big lead from the negative to the engine - unbolt, clean it, and bolt it back up.

P0171 is a "running too lean", which is often a vacuum leak - not always an O2 sensor. I do see some mention about defective O2 sensors causing voltage leaks while running, draining the battery. That's some ferocious shorting, though.
andrewclaus
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by andrewclaus »

If you're running without a MAF, I can see how that could lead to a running lean code. I'm surprised it works without one. I'd fix that first. Running lean can damage the engine. And you're relying on the O2 sensors only to manage fuel mixture.

A code will reset if the fault doesn't appear during a drive cycle. A drive cycle is a complex procedure that may take several days of combined city and highway driving to achieve.

Bad O2 sensors would give their own codes. I doubt that's it. The O2 sensors on the Vibe are the heated type, but they only heat when the engine's running and it's a fairly small load.

I'd suspect a bad battery, despite the test. If someone just checked it with a voltmeter after it had been charged, you could have a false positive. Check battery voltage after sitting overnight. If it's under 12.2 V, it's bad. Is there a date code on the battery? If it's over five years old, get a new one.
mrivera95
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

andrewclaus wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:18 pm If you're running without a MAF, I can see how that could lead to a running lean code. I'm surprised it works without one. I'd fix that first. Running lean can damage the engine. And you're relying on the O2 sensors only to manage fuel mixture.

A code will reset if the fault doesn't appear during a drive cycle. A drive cycle is a complex procedure that may take several days of combined city and highway driving to achieve.

Bad O2 sensors would give their own codes. I doubt that's it. The O2 sensors on the Vibe are the heated type, but they only heat when the engine's running and it's a fairly small load.

I'd suspect a bad battery, despite the test. If someone just checked it with a voltmeter after it had been charged, you could have a false positive. Check battery voltage after sitting overnight. If it's under 12.2 V, it's bad. Is there a date code on the battery? If it's over five years old, get a new one.
The battery is a couple months old. I'll test it here in a couple days
mrivera95
Posts: 33
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

Update:
It's a cold one this morning for August in Texas and the check engine light isn't on when started
mrivera95
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

Does anyone have a picture of a stock air intake? I'm trying to see how the MAF sensor bolts on. Also trying to find a stock air intake.
andrewclaus
Posts: 482
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by andrewclaus »

I often start by looking at eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-05-03-04-Po ... 0401!US!-1

The Toyota Matrix part number is 17705-0D070. That will get some hits too.
mrivera95
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

andrewclaus wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:48 am I often start by looking at eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-05-03-04-Po ... 0401!US!-1

The Toyota Matrix part number is 17705-0D070. That will get some hits too.
Thanks!
I was about to buy a whole OEM take off air intake system but I went to check to see if it would for sure look like it'll fit, and sure enough, there's a MAF under the intake tube. so at least now I know there is one. I'm gonna clean it, reset the ECU and see if the code comes back.

In my looking though, I found a connection harness that isn't plugged into anything but don't know what it goes to, and a full out power cord! Like a cord you'd plug into a wall outlet. The plug end is around the back right of the hood and it leads somewhere under the engine! I wouldn't assume this is normal but I'll ask anyway... is this supposed to be here???
andrewclaus
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by andrewclaus »

The only reason I can think of for a 120 Volt plug body to be there is for an aftermarket block heater. Usually those are run out the front grille.
tpollauf
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by tpollauf »

andrewclaus wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:57 am The only reason I can think of for a 120 Volt plug body to be there is for an aftermarket block heater.
Welcome to GenVibe :D I was wondering where you were located (update profile for us) but then you mentioned Texas! Do you have the history of this car? It's possible that it was a northern car for part of it's life. Any chance it was a flooded car throughout it's life? lots of corrosion in/out of the vehicle? I too would suspect a bad ground(s) somewhere. Since it's a GT model, you have the manual 6-speed tranny. Push start it where possible. Even if the battery is dead! I've done this many times over the years and got me out of jams without bothering anybody else.
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Bookworm
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by Bookworm »

tpollauf wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:36 am
andrewclaus wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:57 am The only reason I can think of for a 120 Volt plug body to be there is for an aftermarket block heater.
Welcome to GenVibe :D I was wondering where you were located (update profile for us) but then you mentioned Texas! Do you have the history of this car? It's possible that it was a northern car for part of it's life. Any chance it was a flooded car throughout it's life? lots of corrosion in/out of the vehicle? I too would suspect a bad ground(s) somewhere. Since it's a GT model, you have the manual 6-speed tranny. Push start it where possible. Even if the battery is dead! I've done this many times over the years and got me out of jams without bothering anybody else.
Done that a few times with an '81 Ford Escort, and a couple of times with a '89 Mazda 323.
mrivera95
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

tpollauf wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:36 am
andrewclaus wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:57 am The only reason I can think of for a 120 Volt plug body to be there is for an aftermarket block heater.
Welcome to GenVibe :D I was wondering where you were located (update profile for us) but then you mentioned Texas! Do you have the history of this car? It's possible that it was a northern car for part of it's life. Any chance it was a flooded car throughout it's life? lots of corrosion in/out of the vehicle? I too would suspect a bad ground(s) somewhere. Since it's a GT model, you have the manual 6-speed tranny. Push start it where possible. Even if the battery is dead! I've done this many times over the years and got me out of jams without bothering anybody else.
Carfax shows that this car has been registered in Arizona most its life, then to Colorado, and then texas.

Update on my situation, I've so far had no code come up after cleaning mass airflow sensor. There was a nice amount of gunk on the sensor.

I took a voltmeter to check the charging system myself, since the only thing I was going off of was my mechanic saying that everything is fine and not remembering the numbers he said.

Without starting it, the battery is at 12.4V. When started without the AC and aftermarket radio on, it's at 12.9V. Then with everything on it drops to 12.5V.

I'm thinking that the alternator may be weak and not able to keep up. What are y'alls thoughts?
Bookworm
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by Bookworm »

I'd say so. You need at least 13.5 to charge a 12 volt battery properly, and I believe that around 14 volts is normal for a running system. You'll need to get above idle for a bit to make certain, however. Have someone rev the engine to 1200 RPM briefly for a volt check, if you can.
mrivera95
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

Bookworm wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:56 pm I'd say so. You need at least 13.5 to charge a 12 volt battery properly, and I believe that around 14 volts is normal for a running system. You'll need to get above idle for a bit to make certain, however. Have someone rev the engine to 1200 RPM briefly for a volt check, if you can.
Reving it up to 1500, even 2000 rpm only made it up to 13.1-13.2 with only headlights on. Im waiting on a tensioner arm to be mailed in because i went to take the belt off and the 19mm "nut" stripped basically immediately. So I will be replacing the tensioner arm and alternator next week.

The check engine light is back on. After not finding any vacuum leaks, I am thinking that the alternator may be the problem because I may not be getting good juice going to the fuel pump. Could be a way to run lean. I still havent replaced the o2 sensors though. I would think if they were the culprit that they wouldnt toggle the light on and off.
zbyers
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by zbyers »

mrivera95 wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:14 pmIm waiting on a tensioner arm to be mailed in because i went to take the belt off and the 19mm "nut" stripped basically immediately. So I will be replacing the tensioner arm and alternator next week
One thing that has surprisngly worked well for me to keep from stripping out that nut, is to put a rubber glove, like a doctor's glove, between the socket and the nut/hex. it's like magic, but helps it sit on there a little more secure.
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Bookworm
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by Bookworm »

Mine sits at 13.9, and so does my wife's Mazda 5. That's at idle.
Bookworm
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by Bookworm »

zbyers wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:02 am
mrivera95 wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:14 pmIm waiting on a tensioner arm to be mailed in because i went to take the belt off and the 19mm "nut" stripped basically immediately. So I will be replacing the tensioner arm and alternator next week
One thing that has surprisngly worked well for me to keep from stripping out that nut, is to put a rubber glove, like a doctor's glove, between the socket and the nut/hex. it's like magic, but helps it sit on there a little more secure.
I don't use a socket. I use a box wrench. Never had the issues others reported. Probably because it's direct force, not at an angle.
zbyers
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Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by zbyers »

Bookworm wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:17 am
zbyers wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:02 am
mrivera95 wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:14 pmIm waiting on a tensioner arm to be mailed in because i went to take the belt off and the 19mm "nut" stripped basically immediately. So I will be replacing the tensioner arm and alternator next week
One thing that has surprisngly worked well for me to keep from stripping out that nut, is to put a rubber glove, like a doctor's glove, between the socket and the nut/hex. it's like magic, but helps it sit on there a little more secure.
I don't use a socket. I use a box wrench. Never had the issues others reported. Probably because it's direct force, not at an angle.
You're right. I actually use a long ratchet wrench I picked up on eBay, solely for the belt tensioner, and belt tensioner through-bolt. We had used a socket in the past, as that is what we had on hand.

I picked up something simliar to this.

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03114A-Fle ... 7805891139
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mrivera95
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Re: 2004 Vibe GT possible electrical problem

Post by mrivera95 »

Bookworm wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:16 am Mine sits at 13.9, and so does my wife's Mazda 5. That's at idle.
Ill keep that in mind when I replace it. Checked all voltage drops on both the positive and negative side of battery just in case and they checked out good. Only thing looking wrong is the alternator voltage. I checked all the other options just in case for whatever reason it wasn't solely the alternator.
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