2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Discuss any problems, warranty, repair, or replacement issues you are having with your Vibe & Matrix
Post Reply
BAmes79
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: St. George, UT

2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Post by BAmes79 »

Hey guys,

I've been working on figuring out a resolution to a belt squeak/chirp I'm getting on my 2009 Vibe base 1.8L Auto with 165K miles. I get a consistent chirping from my serpentine belt area. As many of you know there are 4 pulleys on the '09 1.8L (Alternator, water pump, A/C Compressor, and Crankshaft pulley).

Here is what I have done:

Adjusted the belt to be a little looser, no change
Adjusted the belt to be a little tighter, no change
Replaced the belt with a new Continental belt, no change
Removed alternator and had it tested at Autozone (more to isolate the pulley on their machine than test the actual function of the alternator), no chirping coming from it.
Replaced the water pump under warranty from when it failed 4 years ago, no change
Test spun the pulleys by hand (except CS) and all move fine without noise.

So I'm down to either the A/C compressor or crankshaft pulley causing the noise I believe. The crankshaft pulley does look to have an ever so slight wobble to it, but its hard to tell, it could be my brain trying to place the blame on it :lol: .

What suggestions or help can you guys offer? Any experience with this?

Here is my car: Image
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: 2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Post by jolt »

Short answer is to try replacing the "Automatic Belt Tensioner". Before going that route, I would spray a mist of water on the belt ribs as the motor is running. If the noise goes away, it is a belt/pulley issue. If the noise does NOT go away, it is coming from something else. About 20 to 30 seconds after spraying the water on the belt, the belt will make a lot of noise as the water dries back off the belt and the belt gets it's traction back so don't freak out about the noise as the belt dries back off.

The cheap temporary fix is go buy a small container of baby powder, yes baby powder, and sprinkle the powder on the ribs of the belt. The powder will act as a slip release for the ribs and the chirp will go away while still letting the belt grip. This will last for about 2 months or until the belt gets wet. It is an old used car trick to quiet the belts.

Things to check when you have belt noise:

Clean your pulleys. Remove belt and spray brake cleaner on the pulley grooves and wipe clean so that there is no oils or silicone on pulley grooves. DO NOT put belt dressing on ribbed drive belts. If you have, you will need to clean it all off the pulleys.

Check for end play on the pulley shafts. If the pulley can move in and out because of shaft end play, it can cause noise from the belt.

Check pulley alignment. All the grooved pulleys must be aligned to each other or it may cause belt noise. You may use a straight edge or a laser for checking.

Pulley wear. The grooves on the pulleys do wear and can wear out. Sand and other particals that blow around on the road can get in bedded into the face of the rubber drive belt. These act like a belt sander on the pulley grooves over time and can wear the grooves so that the groove no longer contacts the belt properly, which makes the belt slip and cause noise.


I do not understand how you could have changed the belt tension when the belt tensioner is either a hydraulic tensioner or a spring tensioner. There is no good way of changing the pressure the tensioner puts on the belt. Both of these types will loose tension pressure over time so that the belt is not as tight on the pulleys as it once was.
BAmes79
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: St. George, UT

Re: 2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Post by BAmes79 »

jolt wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:10 pm Short answer is to try replacing the "Automatic Belt Tensioner". Before going that route, I would spray a mist of water on the belt ribs as the motor is running. If the noise goes away, it is a belt/pulley issue. If the noise does NOT go away, it is coming from something else. About 20 to 30 seconds after spraying the water on the belt, the belt will make a lot of noise as the water dries back off the belt and the belt gets it's traction back so don't freak out about the noise as the belt dries back off.

The cheap temporary fix is go buy a small container of baby powder, yes baby powder, and sprinkle the powder on the ribs of the belt. The powder will act as a slip release for the ribs and the chirp will go away while still letting the belt grip. This will last for about 2 months or until the belt gets wet. It is an old used car trick to quiet the belts.

Things to check when you have belt noise:

Clean your pulleys. Remove belt and spray brake cleaner on the pulley grooves and wipe clean so that there is no oils or silicone on pulley grooves. DO NOT put belt dressing on ribbed drive belts. If you have, you will need to clean it all off the pulleys.

Check for end play on the pulley shafts. If the pulley can move in and out because of shaft end play, it can cause noise from the belt.

Check pulley alignment. All the grooved pulleys must be aligned to each other or it may cause belt noise. You may use a straight edge or a laser for checking.

Pulley wear. The grooves on the pulleys do wear and can wear out. Sand and other particals that blow around on the road can get in bedded into the face of the rubber drive belt. These act like a belt sander on the pulley grooves over time and can wear the grooves so that the groove no longer contacts the belt properly, which makes the belt slip and cause noise.


I do not understand how you could have changed the belt tension when the belt tensioner is either a hydraulic tensioner or a spring tensioner. There is no good way of changing the pressure the tensioner puts on the belt. Both of these types will loose tension pressure over time so that the belt is not as tight on the pulleys as it once was.
Thank you so much for your reply and help! I will try the water and baby powder solutions to see if either of those help. Unfortunately the 2009 Vibe 1.8L does not have an automatic belt tensioner (unlike the first gen Vibes with a 1.8L), otherwise that would've been the first thing I went for. There are 4 pulleys the belt goes around: alternator, water pump, crankshaft, and A/C condenser. The tension is adjusted with a belt tension adjusting bolt right above the alternator so that is how I adjusted belt tension. I have cleaned the pulleys and looked for pulley wear, nothing looked too out of the ordinary. I'll try the water and baby powder and report how that works.

Anyone else experience this issue on the 2nd gen Vibe 1.8L?

Thanks again!!
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: 2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Post by jolt »

BAmes79 wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:38 am Unfortunately the 2009 Vibe 1.8L does not have an automatic belt tensioner (unlike the first gen Vibes with a 1.8L), otherwise that would've been the first thing I went for. There are 4 pulleys the belt goes around: alternator, water pump, crankshaft, and A/C condenser. The tension is adjusted with a belt tension adjusting bolt right above the alternator so that is how I adjusted belt tension.
Yes, I forgot that about the second gen 1.8L. The 2.4L have the tensioner. It is weird that some of the Toyota 1.8L still used the tensioner but not the Vibe. This is one of the things that GM did different then Toyota. GM used their AC compressor and their radio. The drive belt is different between the two makes too. If you look up parts on some web sites, some of them list the tensioner. This many help explain things a little better:

https://www.paulstravelpictures.com/200 ... ent-Guide/

"A good trick for checking the belt tension is to grab it in the middle of the longest span (between the alternator and crankshaft).
Then see if the belt can be turned 90 degrees but no further.
It should be relatively difficult to turn and become very difficult to turn once you approach 90 degrees (perpendicular)."

Since your having problems, I would read the whole thing just to make sure something did not get missed along the way.
BAmes79
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: St. George, UT

Re: 2009 1.8L Base Belt Chirp NEED HELP

Post by BAmes79 »

PROBLEM SOLVED! I'm posting the resolution to this problem in case anyone else has the same issue. I'm sure others know this but it was new to me. The 2009-2010 Vibes have a specialized pulley on the alternator, called a decoupler pulley. It is really nicely engineered part! However, over time this pulley can wear out, like most parts on any car. In my case it became evident by squeaking and chirping that sounded like a belt chirp. I concluded it was this pulley after driving in the rain one day. The next day I opened my hood and there was rust powder all around the pulley and alternator, this was a revelation from above! (The sound could not be diagnosed as the alternator because you can't isolate the sound of the pulley with the screwdriver to the ear trick while it's moving, you can only hear the alternator and it was fine. Testing the spinning alternator at the parts store did not replicate the chirp because the decoupler causes it to engage and disengage with stress, so no real engine stress in the test, no chirping.) I pulled the dust cap from the decoupler pulley and rusted chunks fell out. After googling a few different things I discovered all I needed to do was replace this pulley. I bought one from Gates, part #37015P for the 1.8L (37017P for the 2.4L), for $50, took the alternator and pulley to a buddy that rebuilds alternators and in about 2 minutes had it swapped out. Nine minutes later I had the alternator reinstalled and it was quiet, smooth, and fixed!

Note: The pulley can be removed at home but you need a special tool from Gates that the auto parts chains don't carry as a rental. Part number is 91024. I'm sure a local shop would do the swap for cheap or free if you brought the part and the alternator in though. Hope this helps someone in the future!
Post Reply