2004 vibe intermittently not starting (no crank) (187k m) (replaced starter, battery at 12.25V, tested relay, and more)

[theotherjoey]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. I've been avoiding posting any questions in favor of searching for people in the past who have had the same issue, and following the advice given, because I know that's the first rule of help forums, but after deep-diving on like 10 posts here, I'm out of ideas.
Here's what happened.

2004 Pontiac Vibe, automatic, 187,000 miles.

1. Twice last week I turned the key, and nothing would happen, then turn it again and it would start.
2. Third time, it just would not start (no crank, no start, just the click of the ignition).
3. The lights on the dash and the headlights were fine, and bright. Seemed unlikely to be a battery issue. Tried using my Halo Bolt car jumper. No luck.
4. Tested my battery, it read 12.25V on my multimeter. Had some corrosion, cleaned that off. Tested the starter relay with multimeter, checked out. Hooked relay up to 12V battery, connections worked as intended. Tried moving the car into neutral, and other gears to see if there was an issue there, nothing. Tapped on starter motor with hammer, nothing. Checked ALL of the fuses in the engine compartment and passenger compartment, a 5a fuse named "alt-s" was out. Replaced, tried to start, nothing. Took starter motor to Oreilly's AND Autozone. Passed inspection at both places.
5. Put everything back together, and car started just fine. Worked for the next 8-10 trips, thought maybe the relay was stuck or something, then car wouldn't start again. Tapped on the starter with a hammer, and some black dust fell out of the little hole thing on the bottom. Tried to start, started right up. BINGO must be starter. Purchased and replaced starter. She started up like a dream.
6. No issues for a whole glorious 24 hour period.
7. Get in car, turn key, hear a half a turn of my brand new starter motor (which is quiet and I love), and car goes dead. Turn key several times, NOTHING. Not even a light on the dashboard this time, unlike last time where the lights were all A-OK.
8. Exit vehicle, loosen the battery cables, twist them around in case there is still some kind of corrosion, try again, when I turn to accessories/on, but before I hit start, I get a small, flickering single light on the dashboard... Just the one for some reason. I think it was the gas light or something, but it doesn't matter.
9. Figure that this time it seems like the car actually DOES have a dead battery. Jump car with my trusty Halo Bolt (I am in no way affiliated with this product other than the fact that it has saved my (removed) a couple times). Starts right up with no issues at all, not even a slight hesitation.

All that to say... I have no idea what is wrong, and would really appreciate any guidance you may have.

Taking the battery to get tested tomorrow, which will hopefully solve my problems, but I don't think it will, because it shows high voltage. If that doesn't work, I have no idea what's wrong. My first thought is that maybe the ignition? But then, why did the other things (starter tapping, etc) solve the problem initially? and why was my car behaving perfectly normal the first time in terms of lights on dash coming on and then going out when I tried to start?
My second thought would be a wiring issue somewhere, but then why did the jumpstart work?

Thanks for the help!
-Startless in Seattle (AKA, Joey)

EDIT: Also, if the issue could be related, I have been having issues with my power locks intermittently not working. The specific door that won't open changes, and it's only one at a time. I also just replaced my AC blend door actuator today, as that was having issues making a clicking noise.

[jolt]

My first guess, after seeing what you have posted here, is that you have a bad ignition switch. The one thing that changes every time you try to start the car is you turning the key / switch.

[hogdoctor]

Often the thing that takes a starter out of action is the brushes... they wear down to the point where the spring isn't really putting enough force to hold them against the armature, or the brush gets hung up, and is the case when tapping on the starter fixes it temporarily, it just needs a new brush pack (69-8213) (and a good cleaning) The jostling yours got in the course or removing it the first time is what fixed the issue enough to pass testing twice. The next bit of wisdom that comes to mind, "just because it's new doesn't mean it's good". I've heard of people going through multiple starters or multiple alternators before getting a good one. Personally, I tend not to replace complete units, I tear them down and diagnose it to the defective component and replace that. I suspect that when you get a 'refurbished' or 'remanufactured' unit, all they've done is cleaned it, slammed in a new brush pack and gave it a paint job, and 80% of the time, it's perfectly functional after that. Did you get the 20% unit? Be suspicious.
My favorite way of dividing and diagnosing a starter circuit is to pull the starter relay, and feed power to the relay output terminal socket. It should crank over. If it does, you need to go upstream to the safety interlocks and ignition switch. If not, feed power directly to the solenoid feed terminal on the starter. Confirm the battery cables, hot and ground, are conducting properly by checking for voltage between the starter solenoid input terminal and the starter motor end cover (brush pack housing), when feeding power to the solenoid. If it's dropping voltage at the starter, and not at the battery, then you have issues with the battery cables. You tube search for starting circuit voltage drop testing.

Hardest thing to do sometimes, is keeping it broken long enough to figure it out. I truly hate chasing ghosts.
Good Luck!
Patrick

[andrewclaus]

12.25 V on the battery isn't "high." It's on the low side. Fully charged should be 12.8. 12.0 is almost dead.

But it should be enough to at least try to crank, certainly with a jump. So I agree with the above that the starter switch sounds like a problem.

[Bookworm]

It could even be corrosion on the cable at the starter solenoid. Almost nobody actually looks at that one, they always focus on the big cables.