2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Discuss any problems, warranty, repair, or replacement issues you are having with your Vibe & Matrix
Frustrated
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2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby Frustrated » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:50 am

Help!

2004 Vibe won't start. It's not the starter or starter relay. Not the battery or cables or connections.

When I turn the key, all power comes on, but when the key is turned past the "on" position towards the "start" position, there is a single, almost-metallic click from the glove box area and the power goes off on the radio and cigarette lighter/power port.

A friend told me he would almost bet money on it being the ignition switch. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks!

UPDATE: Looking back at my old posts from last time I had start problems, I checked the AM2 fuse under the dash. It was blown and I replaced it and when I turned the key it blew the AM2 fuse again. What is going on??

Emily

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joatmon
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby joatmon » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 am

Frustrated wrote:
When I turn the key, all power comes on, but when the key is turned past the "on" position towards the "start" position, there is a single, almost-metallic click from the glove box area and the power goes off on the radio and cigarette lighter/power port.


The ignition switch has two switches. One sends power from the AM1 fuse to various things only when the key is in the ACC or On/Run position. The other sends power form the AM2 fuse to various things only when the ignition switch is in the On/Run or Start position. Everything that gets power when you turn the key to ACC (including the radio and CIG lighter) has power disconnected when they key is in the Off or Start position. This is normal, so having the radio lose power when you turn to Start is the way its supposed to behave

Frustrated wrote: I checked the AM2 fuse under the dash. It was blown and I replaced it and when I turned the key it blew the AM2 fuse again. What is going on??



The AM2 fuse is involved in a lot of circuits, ignition coils, alternator, starter, ECM, ABS, airbags, and probablyh some others. Most of these get power when the key is in either On/Run, and Start It looks like the only thing that is only powered when the ignition switch is turned to Start is the starting circuit. From the start terrminal of the ignition switch, it goes through the Park/Neutral start switch (or clutch to start switch if its a manual tranny} then through a TVIP relay (Toyota vehicle intrusion protection, I guess the factory anti-theft option), which then powers the coil of the starter relay.

So, you say that the AM2 fuse blows when you turn the key. Does it blow when you turn the key to the On/Run position, or only when you turn past that to the Start position?

If the fuse only blows when you turn to Start, then it could be a shorted or otherwise bad starter relay or Park/Neutral switch, ignition switch or some wire, or perhaps something else I didn't notice

If it blows when you switch to On/Run, then there's a lot more possible failure nodes.

Frustrated
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby Frustrated » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:01 am

Thank you for the detailed information. I wasn’t sure if the radio and lighter going off when starting was normal, I never really paid attention and the car is no longer my daily driver so I’m less familiar with her than I used to be!

The fuse blows when the key is turned past “on” to “start.”

The last time my starter died (2016), I had to replace the AM2 so I was really hoping that would be the fix. Currently, the starter was taken out (because I had these exact same symptoms in 2016) and it tested fine but I went ahead and switched it out with a “new” (remanufactured) starter under the lifetime warranty, which also tested fine.

I also have a new starter relay from the last time this happened and I switched it out and nothing.

I haven’t gotten the airbag recall done yet since I don’t drive the car, would that have anything to do with it? Of course I can’t get the car in for the recall now that it won’t start.

I guess I will try the ignition switch next? Is that very difficult to do? I’m somewhat handy, i.e. I changed the starter out myself. I hate to throw more money into a 14 year old car by having it towed to a mechanic.

I used it for a day while getting hail damage repaired on my daily car and it died the second day I needed it and had now been parked in the middle of the driveway for two months and I’m tired of looking at it lol!

Frustrated
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby Frustrated » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:39 am

Image

In prowling around some more, I noticed it looks like a broken wire on the AC motor? And maybe broken wires on alternator? On the alternator it’s like that bundle of wires is attached to the alternator but then just snipped off at the end?

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joatmon
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby joatmon » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:22 pm

The airbag recalls are for problems that may cause the airbags to deploy when they shouldn't, and also that when they do deploy, they could explosively shoot shrapnel at you. Its something you ought to get taken care of, but the recalls seem unlikely to be related to the not starting issue.

In the picture, the stub of the wire sticking out from the one connector is for the AC compressor clutch. With that wire broken, you will never be able to turn on the AC. I mean, you can hit the button, but AC won't happen. That wire shown at the end your arrow is should be connected to the top arrow, there is only one wire in there. I don't see how that one wire being broken would pop the AM2 fuse. If the broken wire shorted to ground with the AC "on" it would take out the AC fuse, not the AM2

The other thing in your picture that looks like it could be an electrical connector is not a connector, it is just a mechanical piece of plastic that pushes on to a metal tab on the alternator, and is only there to provide an anchor/tie down point for the AC clutch wire

clutchwire.jpg
clutchwire.jpg (34.82 KiB) Viewed 377 times


Since it only blows the fuse when the key is turned to Start, then most of the other things the AM2 fuse powers are likely fine

I'd say try disconnecting the park/neutral switch and see if it blows the fuse, but I've looked and can't find it on my car. Can find pictures of one on line, but don't see it on my car. Supposedly only has two wires going to it, one red, the other black. Probably hiding in plain sight.

Don't know if it will help any, but I attached a pdf of the starting circuit, from an 03 Matrix manual but the same on our Vibes.

As far as I can tell, the TVIP starter cut relay is supposed to be up over the glove box, not on the same junction block that has four relays, but again, I've looked and can't find it in mine, so maybe its only part of the circuit if the car got the TVIP system. Honestly, I don't know
Attachments
013ss.pdf
Starting circuit wiring diagram
(30.25 KiB) Downloaded 317 times

Frustrated
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby Frustrated » Wed May 23, 2018 5:18 pm

Thank you so much for your detailed help and information, I really appreciate it!

Very long story short, I finally got the car into a GM dealer for the two airbag recalls that had never been done, the AM2 fuse hasn’t blown since. The service manager was super unhelpful and I didn’t even bother asking him if they were related. Since the airbag system is “part of” the AM2 fuse, I feel like surely they were related, but what do I know :lol:

Anyway thought I’d update and thank you for your help, maybe this will help a frustrated googler in the future!

Frustrated
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby Frustrated » Wed May 23, 2018 5:20 pm

Oh and I also wanted to ask: is it possible to just splice a new wire onto the broken AC wire and get it going?

hogdoctor
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Re: 2004 Vibe Won't Start - Not the starter or starter relay

Postby hogdoctor » Thu May 24, 2018 3:11 am

I would repair it and see what happens, and see if it looks as if someone cut it on purpose to disable the AC. Maybe the compressor was destroying itself internally and this was a quick fix to stop the noise... Just a theory.


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