2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

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Calmdown
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2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

Hello all:

I purchased a Vibe GT for the wife back in September, and other than tires and brakes; never had any issues with it.

However, the other day, everything seems to have failed at once. I've got the following symptoms:

No Power Steering
Power Steering Fault illuminated.
Airbag fault illuminated (on gauge cluster)
ABS fault illuminated
BRAKE (E-Brake) illuminated

The mechanic attempted to run diagnostics on it mentioned that he isn't getting any reading. As in there's no communication with the diagnostics ports.

This naturally has me angling towards dropping it off at a Toyota Dealer, but I am of course concerned about the "replace everything until it's fixed" mentality of some locations, and was hoping there was a single fault I could point at; as I can't justify the costs of the repair over a replacement vehicle should the replacement needs escalate.
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vibrologist
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by vibrologist »

Seems to me it all comes together at the computer.
I have not had this happening to any of my cars. My approach would be:
Check the battery connections and ground connections first. Disconnect and reconnect the computer, look for water getting into any connection.
Then, have the battery and the alternator checked at the parts store.

I hope for you it is a connection problem as it would be the cheapest to rectify.
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jolt
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

Check all the fuses under the hood and check for voltage at the power distribution box (same box as the fuses). If it is not a wiring/connection problem to the ECU then the ECU may be bad if you can even see the ECU with the proper reader. Unplug the connectors at the ECU, check them for good contact, repair if needed, re-seat connections. I take it that the car is dead and the engine can not run as your mechanic could not get a reading from the ECU. Does the engine starter turn the engine over?
SeattleJeremy
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by SeattleJeremy »

Sounds like classic grounding issues. Grounding to the body, or inside the battery itself.
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Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

jolt wrote:Does the engine starter turn the engine over?
Thank you all for your replies and advice!

Oddly enough, yes; the engine turns over, starts, and runs. No CEL light either, and the battery is brand new.
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by SeattleJeremy »

If the battery's negative cable is loose it could cause these issues, or the battery could be faulty from the factory.
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tpollauf
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by tpollauf »

Welcome to GenVibe .. .although I wish it were under better circumstances. We have TWO of these great cars in our fleet and ZERO problems to date. A bit more info/history might get you some more solutions. Mileage? Location where this Vibe spent it's first eight years? Ever wrecked? Was this a flood car (thousands of them out there!)? Did you buy it from dealer or private seller? How many previous owners? History of any/all previous (if any) repairs?

Did you or anybody perform any recent work on it to where something got bumped/lodged, or damaged? So many possibilities so the more info you can give us the better that someone can offer a solution! ;)
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MacGyver
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by MacGyver »

I diagnosed a similar problem on a completely different car, a 2006 Mini Cooper, last week. Battery was dead from the car being stored all summer. After changing the battery, the car started fine. But symptoms were gauges not working (except fuel), ABS and brake lights on, traction control light on. No power at the OBD port. All fuses were good.

Problem was that over the years, salty water from winter boots got into a connector to the left of the dead pedal, and completely corroded two of the pins inside. Since the connector was only there to facilitate assembly at the factory, I simply bypassed the wires for the two faulty pins. Crappy design. One bad pin was 12V, the other was a speaker wire. So basically one bad wire was causing all the problems.

Anyway, let's talk about your Vibe. You have to find what is likely that one bad wire. Do a full check of all interior and exterior lights to make sure they all work, as any failed lights might give you some clues. Test for 12V at the OBD port. You'll need a multi-meter to check this, and frankly, to diagnose anything else on the car. You can quickly check all the fuses with the continuity function of a multi-meter, too, without needing to remove each one and then wonder where to plug it back in. Check both fuses boxes, one under the hood, one under the dash. You could have a bad instrument cluster, too.
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Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

tpollauf wrote:Welcome to GenVibe .. .although I wish it were under better circumstances. We have TWO of these great cars in our fleet and ZERO problems to date. A bit more info/history might get you some more solutions. Mileage? Location where this Vibe spent it's first eight years? Ever wrecked? Was this a flood car (thousands of them out there!)? Did you buy it from dealer or private seller? How many previous owners? History of any/all previous (if any) repairs?

Did you or anybody perform any recent work on it to where something got bumped/lodged, or damaged? So many possibilities so the more info you can give us the better that someone can offer a solution! ;)
113000 miles just rolled over on the clock; I purchased it from a non-main dealer with a self-acquired clean carfax. The car was never registered in a flood state (New Mexico all its life), and had two owners besides the dealer.

I didn't find any history; but changed the tires, brakes, oil, plugs, battery, and had the trans pumped and refilled. A squalling serpentine led to an afternoon of "fun in the sun" replacement. I swapped out the broken-knobbed stereo with a bluetooth one.

Right after that, we took the car from Albuquerque to Tuscon, going through the mountains on the way there, and back across I-40 on the way back. That was roughly two months ago. Since then, nothing but city driving. Fault came about after driving through a residential area, shut the car off, turned it back on (still warm) and suddenly problem.
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

Does everything work properly on the instrument panel? Does the A/C work properly when you turn it on with engine running?
Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

jolt wrote:Does everything work properly on the instrument panel? Does the A/C work properly when you turn it on with engine running?
No, when running, the speedometer/RPM/Temp gauge all stay at zero, even when driving down the road. Fuel tank stays at 3/4.

I took the car to the Toyota Dealer to see if they could pull codes from the car, and they just told me that I would have to take it to a GM Dealer, and that they were unable to read anything with their equipment.

From my limited knowledge of Vibes and Matrixes, I thought they were fundamentally (down to the gauge cluster) the same, and that it was the sheet metal on the outside that was different?
andrewclaus
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by andrewclaus »

Funny they say they can't read it. I can read my '07 Vibe with my copy of Toyota's Techstream software and Mini-VCI cable (got it for my '07 Prius years ago). It even identifies as a Vibe and lists the Pontiac VIN. It seems to have full functionality with freeze frame data, live testing, etc. Sorry I have no insights to your problem, but the dealer's statement sounds bogus to me from a technical viewpoint.
jolt
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

andrewclaus wrote:Funny they say they can't read it. I can read my '07 Vibe with my copy of Toyota's Techstream software and Mini-VCI cable (got it for my '07 Prius years ago). It even identifies as a Vibe and lists the Pontiac VIN. It seems to have full functionality with freeze frame data, live testing, etc. Sorry I have no insights to your problem, but the dealer's statement sounds bogus to me from a technical viewpoint.
I'll back you up on that! With the same setup as you, I can read my "09 Vibe with a 2.4L just fine with the Techstream software. Fine a different Toyota dealer or a shop that works on a lot of Toyota cars.

The reason I asked about the dash and A/C working is that there is a common electrical circuit to all your problems. The airbag, power steering ECU, certification ECU, dash panel, brake actuator, steering sensor, yaw rate sensor, and A/C amplifier are all on the CAN bus communication circuit to the main body ECU. This could be a nasty one to figure out but it looks like you have lost communication on the CAN bus. Some of these systems have warning lights and some do not, like the yaw sensor. It looks like every system on the bus is down. I do not have experience with this system but if it is like other communication bus systems, it can be a pain in the you know what to find the problem. Almost any part of the system or any piece can pull the communication down so that none of the pieces can talk to the main ECU . It can get as bad as replacing each piece one by one until you find the bad part that is disrupting the communication. Of course a bad connection or broken wire in the bus circuit would do the same thing. On electrical problems like this a shop is going to charge by the hour. Finding a cheap shop may not be the best move because if they do not know what they are doing, it could cost way more then a shop that charges more but has experience with fixing CAN bus problems. They also need the proper equipment that can read all the ECU's in the car, not just the power train generic codes. A smaller dealer may be more willing to help you out than a large dealer would.

A wiring schematic can be found here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/94557409/200 ... g-Diagrams
Thanks goes to MacGyver for the link.

Someone else may have a better idea if they ran into this; and it could be as simple as a broken wire but finding the problem is going to take time.
Last edited by jolt on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

Thanks for the reply's; I verified through a generic ODB2 reader that the ODB2 port has power, but it errors out when reading the ECU.

It does not error out fast, but not sure what that means.

The Inverter works.
Air Con Illuminates, but doesn't feel like the compressor kicks on, nor does the engine feel like it's under load. (tested this at idle.)

Image

That's the gauge cluster. The odometer has not changed, and it just went about 10 miles round-trip to the dealer and back.

The digital temperature gauge works, however. /boggle And the coolant temp gauge doesn't work either.

I tested the battery voltage; 12.7 resting, 13.5 volts idling, so it hasn't cut anything off for reaching below dropoff voltage.
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

More info on general CAN bus: http://www.aa1car.com/library/can_systems.htm

"On GM applications, a code U100 or U1255 means a general loss of communication on the data bus. With a Tech 2 scan tool, you can go to Diagnostic Circuit Check, then Message Monitor to see a list of active modules and compare it to the list of modules that are supposed to be on when the key is on."

Your generic ODB2 reader can not do anything with the CAN bus troubleshooting. All that reader will do is read P (power train) generic codes but when the bus is down, that won't even work. Tech 2 is the GM factory scan tool and Techstream is the Toyota factory scan software. Both should work to read "U" codes from the system. The above link has a section named "CAN Diagnostics" and "CAN System Faults".

You need to find a shop that has a reader that can do the "U" codes to cut down on the repair time.

"what to do when the CAN system won't talk to your scan tool" link:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/can_commu ... roblem.htm
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by MacGyver »

The last thing you did to the car was install a Bluetooth stereo. Try ripping it out and putting the factory one back in. What wiring harness did you use? Any loose wires? Hope you used crimp caps or solder/heatshrink and not electrical tape.
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Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

MacGyver wrote:The last thing you did to the car was install a Bluetooth stereo. Try ripping it out and putting the factory one back in. What wiring harness did you use? Any loose wires? Hope you used crimp caps or solder/heatshrink and not electrical tape.
Solder and heat-shrink for the stereo, the functions of that device are operating perfectly, with no defect since the event. BT Stereo went in about 2 months ago.
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by MacGyver »

I found this thread for a Camry, but the symptoms are the same, and it's apparently been dubbed the "Toyota W-T-F Mode" http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/104-c ... -mode.html

The cause in that case is a bad ABS pump.
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jolt
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

Like I said, any part on the CAN bus can cause the communication to be lost for all items in the system. If a common cause is a bad ABS module, as is pointed out by MacGyver's link, then try disconnecting the ABS unit. If the other items on the CAN bus start working then the ABS unit is the culprit that was pulling down all communication on the CAN bus and would need to be replaced. You keep disconnecting one item from the bus at a time until communication is restored to the other items. You are still going to have the error for the one item that is disconnected but that is because it is disconnected. The main thing to look for is that the other items start working again with the bad item removed from the bus. This type of trouble shooting only work if you only have one item on the bus that is bad.
Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

jolt wrote:You keep disconnecting one item from the bus at a time until communication is restored to the other items. You are still going to have the error for the one item that is disconnected but that is because it is disconnected. The main thing to look for is that the other items start working again with the bad item removed from the bus. This type of trouble shooting only work if you only have one item on the bus that is bad.
Disconnected the ABS Module; No change.

Went to the fuse panel for the ODB-2, pulled the meter, and illum fuses (7.5A), no change.

One thing I did notice is that I can turn the steering wheel with the engine running; which means the EPS system is functioning, yet showing a malfunction. It has previously been quite difficult to turn when at a standstill, so I get to throw an intermittent problem into the mix. Yay.
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by jolt »

Just to make sure, you disconnected the plug from the main body of the ABS control module (Brake Actuator Assembly)? Just pulling the fuse does not disconnect the item from the communication circuit.

If you downloaded the wiring schematic, you are looking for anything that is connected to points labeled CANL and CANH. Also as I stated before, a bad junction point or wiring on these two wires can do the same thing too. If you follow the schematic, you will see that these two communication wires change colors at different junction points through out the system. Of coarse some of the tracing can be cut down if you have the right tools as talked about in the previous posts and links. You still need these tools to verify the CAN BUS is working for all items on the CAN BUS.

Happy hunting, or should I say tracing?
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

Figured this deserved an update; I know how frustrating it can be to leave things hanging...

I took the whole car to Toyota, who couldn't read the ECU (of course), and their Tech 2 guy was out. They didn't charge me, but told me to take the car to GM.

GM managed to fold in some recall work on the car while troubleshooting, but eventually the diagnostics money the recall and I authorized ran out, so the tech agreed to keep working on it in his spare time. Unfortunately he kept coming to the same conclusion, which was that it was a module. Which one? Unknown. Disconnecting modules didn't make the problem go away.

So, rather than having GM start plugging new modules into the car (which I'd have to pay for), I had them put the car back together and brought the car home.

I'd watched some of the Camry ABS (removed) mode videos, and mine was close enough that I figured I'd give the ABS module a shot... particularly when I saw the video that shows you can just take the electronic box off and replace that... So I ordered a "tested" used part...

And that video DOES NOT APPLY TO THE VIBE. There is a 3 pronged feed from the metal part of the module that feeds up into the sealed plastic part. When you take the screws off, and pull the electronic package off the module, that 3 pronged item comes out with it. AND the 3 holes you have to line up to put it back together are both: Recessed, and on the bottom of the module. Likelihood of getting it back together: 0. Particularly when you NOW know that the contacts the flimsy prongs go into are friction based. the whole 3 prong part folds like a cooked noodle.

So I have pulled the entire ABS module, and have ordered another part that should arrive this week.

Is there anything I need to know about bleeding brakes on this car?
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by TireToast »

Calmdown wrote:
I didn't find any history; but changed the tires, brakes, oil, plugs, battery, and had the trans pumped and refilled. A squalling serpentine led to an afternoon of "fun in the sun" replacement. I swapped out the broken-knobbed stereo with a bluetooth one.

Right after that, we took the car from Albuquerque to Tuscon, going through the mountains on the way there, and back across I-40 on the way back. That was roughly two months ago. Since then, nothing but city driving. Fault came about after driving through a residential area, shut the car off, turned it back on (still warm) and suddenly problem.

Is it possible that a wiring harness wasn't re connected when the brakes were serviced. Or if some grime got on a connector while it was unplugged and wasn't cleaned out before re-connecting.
Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

First thing I did was try to clean and reseat the connector multiple times. No dice :(
Calmdown
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Calmdown »

Dropped the new ABS Module in the car tonight; did not change the fault codes at all...

Bled the brakes...

Dash is still in christmas tree mode.

Shorted pins 4 and 13 and received the following "flash" codes:

4-2 or 42 (most likely 42). On older models, this indicated a speed sensor fault.

Does anyone know if the flash codes are still valid?
cq358
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by cq358 »

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Last edited by cq358 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cq358
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by cq358 »

I can duplicate your issue if I put a un recognized OBD 2 dongo in the under dash OBD socket. It seems your ECU is in a tech inspection(check) mode that disable all ABS and TC..etc and your millage won't accumulate and AC wont kick in.

Can you check if there are water leak in your car interior or your brake switch failed.
Vibesalot
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Vibesalot »

Old post I know, But I am having the exact same issue on my 09, same gauges not working, same lights on.

Calmdown if you are still here, did you ever solve your problem?
Vibesalot
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Re: 2009 GT - No PS, ABS & Brake Light, Guages not working...

Post by Vibesalot »

Trying again on this old post. I have been having the same exact issue now for 2 years, my issue comes and goes. Meaning some starts it is fine, some starts it acts up and stays this way, some starts acts up and them corrects after driving. I have been driving this car on occasion, even 7 hour trips pulling a trailer.

Now today it has developed a miss and loss of power. I can connect with my ob2 but cannot connect to the ecu.

Anyone here seen this problem??? Thanks
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