Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Discuss any problems, warranty, repair, or replacement issues you are having with your Vibe & Matrix
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happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

Hey all! So. . . I've already put two starters in my 2003 Vibe. The last one was sometime between 2013 and 2015.
Now, it won't crank. Surely, surely it can't be the starter again, can it?
So of course I turn to you awesome folks at GenVibe.
I've had this car since '06. Put in a new alternator (and battery, because it killed the battery) in February. My previous starter was, I think, killed by a bad battery.

I think it may be the ignition switch, based on what I've read.

Anyway, i go to turn the key leaving work and the radio turns on and the dash lights up but the car doesn't start. No clicking like a dead battery. I hear nothing. I fiddle with contacts, and bang on starter, and eventually, with car in neutral it starts. But the next time, it didn't. A jump start didn't do anything. If I listen carefully, I can hear a slight humming when I turn the key. . . perhaps it's the fuel pump?
When the starter went out last time, it made a sound like a vacuum cleaner or hair dryer.
This time, only that very quiet him.

EDIT: About two months ago, I couldn't get it to crank one day, then it did, then a friend cleaned my battery contacts and tightened everything up and it's been cool since then

Somewhere I read that, if the lights don't dim when you turn the key, it may be the ignition switch. Well, the headlights didn't dim at at all when I tried to crank it last time.

I'd prefer not to have to spend several hundred dollars on tow (it's paralell parked beside the downtown post office in my town) . I'm fairly handy for a girl. But we have to have a car by Saturday for a funeral, so I may have to bite the bullet. Thankfully I just got my tax money.

*** I forgot to mention - it's becoming more common that I have a hard time turning the key. The other day I thought it was never going to turn * * * not sure if they are related


many thanks anybody! Sorry this is so long but I wanted to be thorough.
Last edited by happypessimist on Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Zimm
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by Zimm »

based on my similar experience, i'd wager it's a bad ground from the negative terminal of the battery to the frame. if you have a bad ground in the system, it will not start no matter how fresh your battery and starter, and will not take a jump. based on the cheapo parts used in assembly of these vehicles, it seems to happen more often than it ever should in these cars (which is never.)

the check for this is easy and won't cost you a penny. attach a jumper cable to the negative terminal of the battery. attach the other end of the same wire to the engine block. if it starts, you need to re-attach or replace the ground wire. if it does not start, that particular ground issue is not your problem.
'10 Black w/1.8L AutoAir/PW/PL/PM
happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

Wow, thanks! If I find that is the problem. . . what can I do about it? (other than use the cables every time - but that's easy enough. LOL) I've got to get back to it in the morning.

******ALSO - this happened a few months ago, I got it cranked by wiggling the connections at the battery, then a friend cleaned the positive terminal which was quite corroded and tightened everything up and it had been fine ever since. . . . . *********


*** I forgot to mention - it's becoming more common that I have a hard time turning the key. The other day I thought it was never going to turn * * * not sure if they are related

Thanks so much!!!
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vibrologist
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Location: Iowa

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by vibrologist »

Follow the wire to the connection to the body. It's probably screwed or bolted on. Remove the screw/bolt and clean the cable shoe and the mating surfaces at the screw /bolt hole with a wire brush until you have shiny metal. Put it back together tighten firmly, but do not strip the threads. If you continue to have problems consider replacing the wires with new ones. It is possible that the corrosion has advanced under the insulation and increased electrical resistance.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476
Zimm
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by Zimm »

in my case, even though there was never any significant corrosion on the terminals, the wire had completely corroded inside the sheathing and had to be replaced.

i hope this is the solution to your problem because it's a fairly cheap, easy fix.
'10 Black w/1.8L AutoAir/PW/PL/PM
happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

I tried that Zimm - maybe. At the risk of sounding like a moron, I couldn't find any engine block to clamp onto. I tried a bolt attaching the valve cover to the engine. . . and nope. nada.

When I got to it this morning it cranked right up. And twice at Advance while they were testing starter, battery, alternator. ALl good. Then I just went to crank it and nope. I'm going to more closely inspect the positive terminal. . . but with the lights coming on, it doesn't make much sense.

What I SHOULD have done was driven it to the mechanic this morning. :|
thanks so much!
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by jolt »

Just because of the age of the car, I would replace the cables that go on the battery. Next, what transmission do you have? If it is a manual transmission, you could have a bad clutch pedal switch and if it is an automatic transmission, you could have a bad neutral safety switch. These switches are both safety switches and will make it do nothing; just like you described, if the switch is bad or not adjusted properly. The key switch should not turn hard. If it is turning hard all the time then replace it before your stuck with a tow bill too.
happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

Thanks Jolt!
One time it started in neutral. . .


We're going to work on cables!
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by jolt »

I am not sure what to make of your reply. The battery cable replacement is just to rule them out as the cause of your problem and because they are old. Make sure you clean the area where the end of cable connects too. Use a wire brush or sand paper to clean down to bare metal. Put some grease on the connection point and cable end to keep the ends from corroding before you bolt the cable down.

I take it that you have a automatic transmission from your reply. Is that right?

Attached is info about the Park/Neutral Safety Switch. The switch allows the car to start when it is in "Park" or "Neutral" only. If the switch is bad, it may not start in park but may start in the neutral position. If the switch is out of adjustment, you may have to play with the shift lever to find a spot where the switch will work and start the car BUT be careful as the transmission may now be in gear when the car starts. The attachment is about adjusting the switch. In the info you will see referenced to A246E, U240E, etc.. this is the model of transmission. You need to know the model of your transmission so you can order the right switch if needed. If you look on the transmission, you should find a sticker or the model number will be stamped on to the transmission. Look on top and front of transmission for one of these numbers.

As the linkage wears in the shiftier over the years, the switch may need to be adjusted to compensate for the wear. I have had to adjust quite a few of these on old Fords and Chevs but I only remember changing three because they were bad.
Attachments
a040001.pdf
Adjust neutral safety switch
(20.72 KiB) Downloaded 139 times
happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

Thanks. This problem is so intermittent. sometimes it starts just fine. Crazy.

I've read a lot of posts and no matter what people think it was. . . it was the starter. I'm starting to think the same.

I do wonder if the leakage of water on my driver's door may be part of the problem. It's always leaked after the rain but has gotten worse. Runs down the post and possibly into the dash.

Pulled the starter fuse from below the steering wheel and it has brown streaks. Not rust, exactly, but kind of. I'm going to change it and check the rest of the fuses. And see if I can find the ignition switch. I'm going to pull the starter and clean the contacts like I saw on You Tube. And then, if it still isn't working, hopefully I can get it to crank so I can take it to the mechanic I should have taken it to Friday. Dang rental car costs me $300 and I really, really, really wish I'd just taken it to the shop then. :(
happypessimist
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Need ANOTHER starter??? Or something else?

Post by happypessimist »

An update for anybody who may read this looking for info.

It WAS THE FREAKING STARTER. I ended up having to take it to a shop for diagnostics and it was the starter. Even though it had bench tested good, I had got out there with a multimeter and did all the tests and none pointed to it being the starter.

It was the starter. I wish I had saved the money on the rental car. Replacing the starter was so easy! I felt like a badass - being a girl and all :)
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