debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Discuss any problems, warranty, repair, or replacement issues you are having with your Vibe & Matrix
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debbob
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debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

greetings all,

This is my first post to GenVibe, thank you for the opportunity to ask for advice and guidance.

We have an '09 Vibe, bought in May '08 with 32,000 miles on it. about two years ago, we started to hear a metallic scraping/slapping sound when we started the engine on cold mornings. This sound has since been diagnosed by a gas station service manager as a problem with the timing belt tension adjuster.

I am writing for your opinions concerning if and when I should have the issue repaired. The gas station mechanic recommended not fixing it at all and, if we do fix it, having a dealer so it. The Pontiac dealer where we bought the car recommended having it fixed at a Toyota dealer because the Vibe dealer has not fixed one for a couple of years and does not recall the name of the mechanic who did the repair. I talked with a service manager at the closest Toyota dealer who said they could do the work.

To date, I believe we have heard the noise when starting the engine to be not more than 25. We only hear the sound when starting the car for the first time on a cold day. How many is too many?

I would be very grateful for your inputs.

Thank you very much,

Debbob
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MacGyver
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by MacGyver »

Welcome to Genvibe!

I'm confused, in the title you say you have a 2008, while in the body you say it is an 09. Which one do you have?

Also I think you mean serpentine belt tensioner, not timing belt. The Vibe has a timing chain. If it is the tensioner, any competent mechanic should be able to tackle that job.
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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

Hi McGyver,

Thank you for your response.

It is our understanding that the 2008 and 2009' Vibes are the same car and that ours is called a 08/09 Vibe. Not sure that that it matters much...

I misspoke when I wrote timing "belt", I should have written timing chain. We are very sure our problem is not the serpentine belt.

What are your thoughts about timing chain repair and replacements. How will I know when to change the timing chain.

Thank you again,

Debbob
rmacnamara
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by rmacnamara »

debbob wrote:Hi McGyver,

Thank you for your response.

It is our understanding that the 2008 and 2009' Vibes are the same car and that ours is called a 08/09 Vibe. Not sure that that it matters much...

I misspoke when I wrote timing "belt", I should have written timing chain. We are very sure our problem is not the serpentine belt.

What are your thoughts about timing chain repair and replacements. How will I know when to change the timing chain.

Thank you again,

Debbob

2008 and 2009 are very different cars.

As the timing chain stretches out more (wears out) it will start to run really bad or not at all.

Get a second opinion, dealers are a rip off, and very good independent garage will know what to do and be very reasonable.
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MacGyver
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by MacGyver »

Look at the picture at the top of this page, if your car looks like the orange one, it's a 2008. If it looks like the blue one, it's a 2009.
We need to know which one you have, and also which engine. The 2009 can have either a 1.8L or 2.4L engine and both of those engines are very different.
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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

Hi MacGyver,

Thank you very much for your helpful posting. Our Vibe is an '09 which we purchased in April, '08 and has a 1.8 l engine.

I would be very pleased to take your advice and take our Vibe to a good private auto shop if I knew of one.

Any recommendations of such a shop in the Washington, DC metro area?

I think we will continue to drive the Vibe on warmer days to reduce the number of times we hear the "slapping" to reduce the chain wear and lengthen its service life and repair or sell the car when the slapping occurs when starting on warm mornings.

What do you think?

Thank you again,

Debbob
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vibrologist
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by vibrologist »

Debbob:
I suggest you get it fixed. The main reason is that it is bothering you already and keeping you from enjoying your 09 Vibe. The second reason is that there is a seal at the tensioner that tends to develop a leak over time. When they replace the tensioner they will put a new o-ring in as well. Have it done with the next oil change.

The repair is not difficult and not very time consuming. But the person doing it should be familiar with the way it works. Any mechanic who routinely works on Toyota Corolla engines should know it.

This video describes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykC7ykTwbCg
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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

Hi Vibrologist,

Thank you very much for your very helpful note.

I have a quote to fix our Vibe, based only on my verbal subscription via telephone, from the closest Toyota from our home of $1,600-$2,200. The deal we bought our Vibe at recommended this Toyota dealer because they are in the same new car dealer group. Our dealer declined to do the work because of the lack of mechanical talent.

I am not sure that I understand your recommendation. Are you saying that the timing chain, tensioner, O-ring and the curvedieces the chain slaps against ,and gears can be changed as part of the next oil change?

The slapping does not bother us much because we only drive the Vibe when the temps are above 45degrees F, or so. We hope this will reduce the wear on the chain to enable the mileage and years to catch up to the timing chain assembly. So far, we only hear the slapping during the first cold start of the day.

At least, that is our strategy for our almost nine year old car with less than 33,000 miles.

Thank you very much and enjoy the Reston the weekend,

Debbob
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MacGyver
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by MacGyver »

debbob wrote:Hi MacGyver,
Our Vibe is an '09 which we purchased in April, '08 and has a 1.8 l engine.
Then your car doesn't have a tensioner. There are only four pulleys on the belt - crankshaft, A/C compressor, water pump, and alternator. There is an adjustment screw on the alternator that provides the belt tension. This video shows how it works, except the hand drawn diagram in the video is wrong, the center pulley is the water pump, not an idler pulley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7p8g2jGE8M

I also get the noise on starting up in the mornings on my 09 Base. It's moisture on the belt, an old belt, or insufficient tension. I never get the noise starting the car at work in the heated underground garage, only at home in my unheated garage. More info: http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/ques ... he-morning
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vibrologist
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by vibrologist »

I am not sure that I understand your recommendation. Are you saying that the timing chain, tensioner, O-ring and the curvedieces the chain slaps against ,and gears can be changed as part of the next oil change?
No. What you describe is major surgery. If only the timing chain tensioner were at fault (----that is what i understood from your earlier posts) then it would be an easy job.

How many miles are on your engine?
Did you have a mechanic of your choice and at your expense look the car over BEFORE you bought it?
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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

HI Vibrologist,

Thank you for your continued interest in our problem.

I do not know exactly what needs to replaced on our Vibe. All I know is that on the first cold start of the engine on days in the mid-40sF and below, we hear a metallic sound at the end of the period of time that the starter is cranking the engine. I understand this is called "Slapping". The service manager at a gas station which does a tremendous amount of business, and which is not equipped to do our repair, stated, based on what he heard when he started our Vibe on a cold morning that it sounds like the oil driven piston type device that moves the two curved plastic covered metal pieces out to adjust the tension in the timing chain is not working as specified. After the first cold start of the day, things work fine. Today it is 52 degrees F and our Vibe started great!

I talked with the service manager of the Toyota dealer that is part of the same new car colossus as the Pontiac dealer from whom we purchased our Vibe who recommended that we bring the car out to him, leave it overnight so his mechanics can do a cold start the next day to hear what is going on. So far, we decided to let it be as long as it is warm and we do not hear the noise. I understand that there will be wear from driving the car but am not sure whether additional wear will occur by driving the car in its condition if we do not hear the noise. What do you. or anyone else in the group, think?

We bought our '09 Vibe in April '08 new from an authorized Pontiac dealer and it has less than 32,000 miles as of yesterday. Also, the water pump when out at about 28,000 miles... Other than that, no problems:)

Thank you again.

Sincerely,

Debbob
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vibrologist
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by vibrologist »

Debbob:

With only 33000 miles on the clock that engine should run like new.

Here is what I am thinking: the estimate is for the replacement of the entire timing set. However, there is the possibility that only the tensioner is malfunctioning while the rest is in good shape. Look at the diagram: the entire timing set includes the parts 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and a lot of stuff has to be removed to get to them. Of these 16 is the tensioner and it can be purchased and replaced separately and easily. There is a chance that this will cure your problem. If this does not work you can still replace the entire timing set.
Vibe 1.8L engine.jpg
Vibe 1.8L engine.jpg (53.77 KiB) Viewed 2537 times
I found this picture here: http://www.gmpartscenter.net/#

Find a mechanic that works with you. The Toyota service may not be willing to do this because they want to be sure the repair is perfect the first time. They do not want any come-backs. However you look at a huge savings if it works.

Good luck!

Hopefully someone else chimes in to either confirm or debunk what I am saying.
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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

Dear Vibrologist,

Thank you very much for your helpful response. I am hoping that just changing the tensioner will solve our problem. Is it something that can be done simply like replacing a spark plug or do a lot of other parts still need to be removed?

My main question is what will the Toyota mechanic be able to determine by only hearing the sound, "slapping", that occurs on first of the day starts on cold days. Is it so "easy" to replace the tensioner that it is worth just replacing it and see what happens the next cold morning?

Finding a helpful mechanic is a problem, mostly because we have had no mechanical repairs on our cars, three Prisms and a Vibe, for the last 26 years, and have no experience working with anyone. I have researched auto shops and not come up with an answer partly because they do not return phone calls. That is why we would like to drive our Vibe on warmer days and not drive it on cold days, like this AM and see what happens.

I concur with your comment that if anyone on this web site can recommend a competent Vibe repair shop who can do this work that they post their recommendations to this thread.

We live in Washington, DC, USA.

Thank you again,

Debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by vibrologist »

Here is the link again. O.K., he works on a Corolla , but under the hood the Vibe, Matrix, and Corolla are all the same with minor changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykC7ykTwbCg

I suggest you ask around at work, church and other places, preferably people with older Toyotas, whom they use to service their cars.

All the best!
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

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debbob
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Re: debbob 2008 Vibe Base

Post by debbob »

Hi Vibrologist,

Thank you very much for a very helpful note, I am grateful for your inputs.

The link to the repair videos is really illuminating as to the amount of work required to perform the required tasks. No wonder the cost for a repair is so high!!!

Unfortunately, I do not work, go to church or know anyone who owns an old Corolla and the high ranking Toyota shops are not good at returning calls... As such, our strategy is to not fix the Vibe and only drive it when the ambient temperature is about 45 degrees F. I believe that if we do not hear the "slapping", we will not wear out the chain tensioner equipment any faster than if we did not have a problem. If at some point, it the slapping occurs all the time, we may try a dealer...

Regardless, I am very grateful for your support and the efforts you put forth it assist me in this issue.

Thank you very much, be safe and enjoy your Vibes.

Most Sincerely,

Debbob
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