No voltage from Fuel Pump connector

[dragginwagn]

Hello folks, I have an 07 Vibe 1zz that cranks but will not start. No volts from fuel pump connector. I have checked the EFI mini fuses and they are ok, I switched the EFI relay with the fog lamp relay, and both relays seem to be good. I also swapped the C/OPN relay with the P/W relay, and both relays seem to be good. I am checking the voltage from the fuel pump connector and there is 0 volts right after key on ACC, and 0 volts while cranking. The fuel pump assembly registers fuel level and the pump whirs when I apply 12volts to it. What else can I check to figure out why I am not getting any volts from fuel pump connector. The ECM recall seems to have already been performed, but does it look like I may need a new ECM?

[cptnsolo77]

Im almost in the same boat with you viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45481

I sprayed starter fluid down the throttle body and it wants to fire up so I know its a fuel issue. I swapped out the same relays as you did too. My next step was to check fuel pressure, however the 1ZZ engine doesnt have a schrader valve on the fuel rail. I will have to "T" in one from a fuel pressure test kit. That seems like too much work to find out I may not even have voltage at the pump in the first place. You convinced me that is the next logical step. Maybe both of our posts will solve someones car problem

[dragginwagn]

Yeah man it's quite easy to get to the fuel pump connector, just lift up the rear seat 'cushions' (remove bolts), and you can access the fuel pump connector right there after taking off the cover. Might have to hit up the corolla/matrix forums to see if we can get any more advice.

[cptnsolo77]

I did find out that our cars dont prime the pump in the" key on" position, that would explain when I would try to start it up I would not hear the hum of the pump...then return the key to the "key on" position after trying to start I would hear the pump. As for me I sprayed starting fluid in the throttle body and it tried to fire up. Since I can hear the pump im assuming I have power. I definitely have a fuel issue. Thinking back I remember it would fire up momemtarily then die immediately. I tried to give it gas the while cranking and it tried to fire up. Now it just cranks, im guessing the pump died and whatever fuel vapor was left in the lines it was using that to attempt to start. Hopefully we can help each other out

[jolt]

Attached is the fuel pump troubleshooting for the 1st Gen Vibe. Some other info is: At idle the fuel pressure should be between 45 and 50 psi. The fuel pump motor resistance should be between 0.2 – 3.0 Ω @68F

[dragginwagn]

Thanks for the troubleshooting guide jolt. Sorry for the newb question, when it says handheld tester, is that an OBD2 scan tool?

[Jbenrod]

Can you hear the relay click? Make sure you have 12 volts going to that relay with key on. It probably will be either pin 87 or 30.

[dragginwagn]

Where can I find pin 87 or 30?

[jolt]

Thanks for the troubleshooting guide jolt. Sorry for the newb question, when it says handheld tester, is that an OBD2 scan tool?

It is a factory Toyota handheld tester that plugs into the DLC3 port, which is the port that a OBD2 can also plug into.

What that first test is asking is "Does the fuel pump relay open and close" and is there voltage in and out of relay. When you turn the key on, do you have voltage on the B-W (black with white strip) wire feeding the fuel pump relay? Are you getting power from the E.F.I. (electronic fuel injection) relay to the fuel pump relay on the B (black) wire at the fuel pump relay base?

The fuel pump relay will not pull in if the ECM is not taking the relay coil to ground to complete the circuit. The ECM does not want fuel going to the engine if the engine is not running (safety). The ECM takes in information from sensors like the crankshaft position sensor to tell that the engine is cranking over and then will pull in the fuel pump relay to make the fuel pump run. Any of the the sensors, wiring, connections, or the ECM itself can prevent the fuel pump relay from pulling in. From the info that I have giving you before, you can see that the E.F.I. system has to be functioning and that relay has to be pulled in in order to send power to the fuel pump relay and from there to the fuel pump on the B (black) wire going to the fuel pump relay and out the B-R (brown with red strip) wire to the fuel pump.

Many different things can effect and cause the no voltage. These systems are all tided together and will effect each other. This also makes it hard to trouble shoot what the cause is. Here is an example story that many show how the problem is not the problem or the cause:

http://www.counterman.com/how-automotiv ... they-fail/

Also a word of warning: When checking voltage on the ECM, use a low impedance voltmeter as you can damage the ECM if you use an older meter or test light.

[jolt]

Where can I find pin 87 or 30?

These are common numbers found on the base of most automotive relays. Here is an example:

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp

http://www.accessconnect.com/car_relays.htm

[jolt]

Here are the tools to hook up a fuel pressure gauge tester:

https://gmtoolsandequipment.com/UserMan ... 14-355.pdf

From the above link, you would need tool numbers J-42982 and J-43178 to hook up your fuel pressure tester gauge.

[Allen3546]

Did anyone figure out a solution to this problem? My 2004 vibe is doing the exact same thing. I have be able to get the car started several times but once it shuts off for a while it is a gamble if the fuel pump will kick in so the car can start.

[jolt]

Allen3546, sounds like a classic electric fuel pump failure for you. If you can kick the fuel tank and it takes off, your fuel pump is going bad.

[cptnsolo77]

I have a coworker who is a mechanic and is stopping by on Sunday morning. From what I described to him and what I did he says it is the fuel pump.I will definitly post the results.

[dragginwagn]

Small update: I found a used ecu on ebay that cost me $50, it has the same part numbers as mine. I installed that and I checked the voltage on the fuel pump connector and voila! 11-12 volts on as I am cranking it up. I can actually hear the fuel pump humming now. But it still will not run. Where as with the old ecu, it will just keep cranking, with the new ecu it will crank then start then die, like "ch, ch, ch, ch, vrooom, die....." I'm thinking I picked up an incompatible ecu?

[jolt]

dragginwagm, the ECM will do that until it is programmed to your vehicle. The car will start, then die. The ECM needs to be programmed but you may be able to do it yourself with a paperclip. Watch this video to see how you can do it yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QocuEYNE6KM

If you search around you will find other info about this on other Toyota forums. Good Luck!

[dragginwagn]

Thanks jolt. That looks very promising. Now just need to figure which actual pins to jump for my car! 07 vibe...

edit: found this on the webz... look right?

We were asked to "program" a used PCM for this 05 Corolla 1ZZ-FE by a local shop. He had been fighting a P0353 (?) and was sure that the issue was related to a faulty PCM. The car had 195K miles on it so it was not covered under the emissions warranty. He had already plugged in the used box and found the typical start/stall when a car is immobilized. I asked him to leave me all the keys in case I had to relearn them all.

After reading about the procedure to erase and relearn keys and not having an LSID, I figured I was gunna reach a dead end as I wouldn't be able to get a seed number in a timely fashion.

After some head-scratching and failed attempts at writing the car's VIN to the used PCM, I was about to give up when iATN member Harv Chan sent me this:

"You don't need to learn the keys to the PCM. This vehicle should have a Transponder ECU that has learned the keys. All you need to do is the handshake between the PCM and the Transponder Key ECU. Jump DLC pins #13 to #4 for over 30 minutes. Be sure to cycle the key afterwards.

You don't need to re-seed for a used PCM on this model.

You were also told correctly about programming the VIN into the PCM. You can do this with Techstream or any Snap On tool with a recent version installed. Having the right VIN is necessary for IM testing."

The failed VIN write turned out to be an issue with TechStream when using a Cardaq+ interface. Using a Mastertech with Toyota card made that possible. Once the VIN was correct and the 30+ minute procedure was complete, I shut the ignition off, removed the jumper from the DLC, and it started up on all 3 keys. I had tried the 30+ min thing before correcting the VIN and was unsuccessful.

BTW, this is the same procedure as Toyota shows for a new PCM replacement. Go figure.

Tip o' the hat to Harv for coming to my rescue.

Happy trails,

Rusty from Massachusetts

[dragginwagn]

Ok so I tried the 30 min procedure, pins 13 and 4 jumped. Didn't work. Tried it for 45 mins, same result. I believe this is the the right path, just missing another step for resetting the immobilizer... darn it I didn't even know the car had an immobilizer! Anyone have some quick tips?

Is there an "immobilizer module" inside my original ecm that I can transfer over to my new ecm?

[dragginwagn]

Found this video where you transfer the eeprom that holds the immobilizer info to your new ecu, problem is I do not know which chips exactly that I need to transfer....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lLW_qgWDHw
Otherwise, I found a locksmith that can program the ecu for $165 charge.

[jolt]

It would appear that GM has done something with the programming to only allow the GM tools to work with the Vibe. You need to find someone with the GM Tech2 programming tool to reset the VIN code in the ECM.

[Allen3546]

Allen3546, sounds like a classic electric fuel pump failure for you. If you can kick the fuel tank and it takes off, your fuel pump is going bad.

The fuel pump is not the issue as it was recently replaced. My 2004 base vibe will only have this problem on occasions, about once a week. I can use starter fluid to get a rough start and if it didn't start that attempt, I usually hear the fuel pump kick in ad then it starts the next attempt with no problems. I have check all the fuses and relays and even bypassed the relays directly to the fuel pump and still can have the same problem.

If anyone has found a possible solution to this problem please let me know. A friend of mine who is a mechanic said to look into the anti-theft device because it sounds like the computer is telling the car not to send fuel.

[dragginwagn]

Just to update if anybody is interested, my Vibe has now been running great since Sept last year. The first ECU i got off of ebay was faulty, so I purchased another one with the same model number as the original. Performed the 'ecu handshake' procedure and car has been running fine since.
Thanks for all the tips!