Oh no !!! Vibe cranks but not starting !!! ( Problem fixed )

[cptnsolo77]

Ok, now That I have your attention As the topic states, 208K Vibe cranks but doesnt start. I did some basic troubleshooting and found the fuel pump is NOT priming. I turned the key on and listened towards the back of the car and could not hear a whine or hum. I understand you SHOULD hear something for about a second or two and that is the fuel pump priming. I even removed the two bolts and lifted the seat to hear better but I still couldnt hear the fuel pump priming. Sounds like a dead fuel pump right ???....but this is where I got thrown off...I tried cranking the engine and listening for the fuel pump. Obviously the car did not start, however when i turned the key back to the position where I should hear the fuel pump priming...I HEARD the pump. So it seems like the pump isnt priming, but when I crank her up the pump is running ? Now im officially confused. Perhaps this system doesnt need to be primed ? Do i have a bad fuel pump or not ? From my research there are 2 relays associated with the fuel pump. there is one under the hood and one under the instrument panel. I swapped the EFI relay with the FOG relay and under the dash I swapped a relay with a power window relay. No changes. I want to check for fuel pressure, but the fuel rail doesnt have a schrader valve for a gage, so im stuck with just disconnecting a line and having someone crank the engine while I hold the line into a bucket. That wont tell me if its the correct pressure though.

- so is the fuel pump bad ? Not priming, but running AFTER i crank ???? Can someone verify this with their own car ?
- I was going to use some starting fluid to check if its fuel related, but I read that you cannot use starting fluid with fuel injection. Is that true ?

Thankfully I have my sisters car to use for the next 3 weeks, so I dont have to work in a panic but damn....I just spent $38 to fill up !!! Any suggestions ? Once I verify that I have fuel or not I can move down the troublshooting tree. Im trying to avoid replacing parts blindly...cause I have done it in my younger days. I think im smarter now

[Caretaker]

Let's start (no pun intended) at the beginning. Whenever something goes wrong, the first question to ask is, what just happened before that?

1. Was the car running just fine hours/minutes/a day before this happened?
2. Did you just fill up the car with gas, drive home and shut the car off? Did the non start begin right after that?

If the answer to 2 is yes, could you have overfilled the gas tank and fill tube causing this problem?
Have you tried taking the gas cap back off to see if you vent some serious gas which may be causing vapor lock?

Just thought I'd throw in those basic suggestions before moving on to replacing expensive parts.

[cptnsolo77]

Thanks for the reply!

1. I moved it from a parking spot to my driveway just minutes before, and started fine. My wife get in the car and thats when it began. About a month ago the car did feel a little weak off the line, but I had figured it was due to the servere heat we had at the time. Then it went away ...not sure if that was a sign or not. Never felt that way before with extreme temps.

2. I filled up on Monday ( this happened yesterday ) and the gas gage is inbetween 1/2 and 1/4 tank.

I tried removing the cap and no change. I did forget to mention that when it was cranking it did fire up momemtarily then died. Today it just cranks.

[Caretaker]

Oh the wife touched the car........................now there's the problem.

Doesn't sound like anything I prescribed is a solution after reading your second note. Could be the fuel pump sending device however. Since there doesn't seem to be a logical easy remedy, then I'm guessing it is time to take it to the doctor for a looksy.

[gtv237]

Fuel pumps hardly ever just go out completely. They just tend to get flat spots on the internal winding. You can try smacking the tank a few times while its cranking to try and jump start it. I had a car once that if you sat in the trunk and banged on the floor it would run forever but just idling it would die after 5 minute or so.

[cptnsolo77]

I banged on the top of the pump does that count ? I t didnt change anything though. Me upset

[jolt]

Cranks but does not start just out of the blue - sounds like the same thing GM cars do when the crankshaft position sensor goes out. Side note: the ECM controls the grounding of the fuel pump relay so the ECM controls the fuel pump.

[cptnsolo77]

Those are 1 of the two things im fearing....ECM or crankshaft position sensor....ouch!

[gtv237]

But a fuel pump will prime with ignition. You can always check fuel pressure to verify.

[Chiadog]

Consider disconnecting the battery to reset the ECM. It's worth a shot!

[cptnsolo77]

I will give it a shot ! Nuttin to lose.

[jolt]

A engine needs three basic things to run; compression, fuel, and spark. You need to check and test that you have all three at the cylinders. Do you have spark? Do you have fuel pressure? Is the ECM sending a signal to the fuel injectors? Without testing these basic systems, you have no path to follow in trouble shooting this problem, everything is just random guesses at this point. Heck, I could throw in throttle position senser, mass air flow senser, camshaft position senser, a wiring or connection problem, etc...

To check the fuel pump pressure, you need to make up a "T" adapter to tee in a pressure gauge in the fuel line but since the engine does not run just put the gauge in the supply line at the engine and see what the pressure is. Turning the key on, the pressure should be around 45psi, turn the key off and see how fast the pressure bleeds off. If all is good with the pressure holding then check for spark. Pull a spark plug. Is it wet or dry? If it is wet then you know you are getting fuel. With the spark plug hooked up to the coil, ground the plug to the engine and have someone hit the starter as you you watch for spark. Does it have spark? When you find which system is causing the problem then you can start following that path to find the cause of the problem.

[cptnsolo77]

Thanks for all the replies

[jolt]

I forgot but, Yes, you can use starting fluid. It does not matter if it is fuel injected or not.

[jolt]

Here are the tools to hook up a fuel pressure gauge tester:

https://gmtoolsandequipment.com/UserMan ... 14-355.pdf

From the above link, you would need tool numbers J-42982 and J-43178 to hook up your fuel pressure tester gauge.

[cptnsolo77]

Thx for all the help. So far this is what I have so far:

-I have 10.6 volts to the pump. Dont know why so low. Seems like a bit of a voltage drop but I have been cranking it over for almost 2 weeks. I have 12.4 at the battery. Yes I can hear the pump when cranking.

-I picked up a Noid light and I do have injector pulse.

-I picked up a fuel pressure gage but for the life of me I cannot separate the fuel line quick connect. I bought the plastic dougnut style and scissor type tool. It aint moving ! I sprayed some penetration oil on the quick connect and going to give it another try today. Any tips for this one ? Im stuck here.

-If i cant get a fuel pressure gage reading I going to check for spark. No codes either.

[jolt]

To get the connector apart, the first thing you need to do is relieve the fuel pressure from the line. If there is any pressure on the line, it will be hard to get apart. To do this, unplug the fuel pump electrical connector at the pump and crank the engine over to bleed pressure off the line.

At the fuel line connector:
1. Grasp both sides of the fitting. Twist the female connector 1/4 turn in each direction in order to loosen any dirt within the fitting.

2. Blow any dirt out of the fitting using compressed air.
Warning: Wear safety glasses when using compressed air, as flying dirt particles may cause eye injury.

3. Insert the J 43178 tool into the female connector. Push the tool inward in order to release the locking tabs.

4. Pull the connection apart.
Caution: If necessary, remove rust or burrs from the fuel pipes with an emery cloth. Use a radial motion with the fuel pipe end in order to prevent damage to the O-ring sealing surface. Use a clean shop towel in order to wipe off the male tube ends. Inspect all the connections for dirt and burrs. Clean or replace the components and assemblies as required.

5. Using a clean shop towel, wipe off the male pipe end.

6. Inspect both ends of the fitting for dirt and for burrs. Clean or replace the components if necessary.

Be sure to lube (oil) tube and o-rings before putting the connector back together.

If you pull the spark plugs and they are wet then you know:
1. The engine is flooded with fuel and will not start until it is dried out.
2. The fuel system is supplying fuel to the engine and is not causing the "no start" .

To make the engine flood out with fuel. hold the throttle down about half way to the floor and crank the engine. If you hold the throttle down all the way to the floor, it cuts off the fuel so you can try starting a flooded engine.

[cptnsolo77]

Oh wow, I wish I would have seen this reply before you posted. I was able to separate the quick connect. I soaked it with penetrating oil overnight and cleaned out the area where the tool is inserted. I didn't get a chance to put a gauge on it, but I did hold the line in a cup while someone cranked. Fuel did come out....I expected to get splashed. Didnt seem like a lot of pressure. When I hook up the gauge I will get a accurate pressure reading.

[jolt]

Volume and pressure are two completely different things. You need both but pressure is the important one. Did you get a pressure reading? Whats the PSI at that connector?

[cptnsolo77]

Well the test kit didnt have the correct fiiting for the quick connect going to the fuel line. A coworker of mine has a son who is a tech is coming over tomorrow to look it it. Time to punt this one.....

[cptnsolo77]

Looks like it was a bad fuel pump. I have a coworker whos stepson who used to work at a nearby Lexus dealership help me. He confirmed it WAS the fuel pump and we replaced it. However it wouldnt idle at all...let go of the gas and it would die. He tapped the IAC valve and started it up one more time and the Vibe came to life The IAC valve was stuck. I knew I needed to clean it but I was busy this spring with replacing the inner/outer tie rods, stabilizer links, and then the AC compressor died so I never got it it. Needeless to say I cleaned it out and the Vibe is back on the road. Thanks for all the help !!!!!