09 Vibe grinding shifting into 3rd gear even after replacing transmission.

[StevenC]

PostSat Jan 16, 2016 9:20 am

Hi All!

My wife and I own a 2009 Pontiac vibe. We replaced the clutch a few months ago. 2 weeks ago when shifting up to 3rd gear or down shifting to 3rd it makes an initial grind noise. We're both experienced stick drivers and make sure to push the clutch all the way down. We took the car to the mechanics and right away they told us to replace the transmission. We're at 120k miles. We swapped it for a low mileage transmission and still are having the same problem. Mechanic unsure what it is. Tried researching these forums, but it seems like most people who replace the transmission are good after they do.

Any ideas folks what it is or what I should have the mechanic look at?? Thanks!

[gtv237]

Hey there. I also have a 2009 vibe with the manual transmission. I have nearly 150k miles on mine and it shifts smooth as butter. I am an auto technician, I drive many different types of cars every day and my vibe is with out a doubt the smoothest stick I have ever driven. I am actually hoping my transmission goes out so I can swap in a 6 speed from a 2014 Corolla but it doesn't look like I'll have that opportunity any time soon.

I hate to be a (removed) about this but maybe you should find a new mechanic. It sounds like he wanted to throw parts at it instead of diagnosing it properly.

If I had to take a internet guess I would say the clutch master cylinder is leaking internally. The hydraulic clutch linkage works through fluid pressure right? So imagine when the pedal is all the way up, there is 0 psi in the lines. Then when the pedal is half way down there is 10 psi in the lines. Then when the pedal is all the way down there is 20psi.. Say the master cylinders rubber piston o-rings are worn and can only hold 15psi before they leak fluid back into the fluid reservoir. In that situation the hydraulic linkage would only hold 15psi and thus only allow the clutch to open up to a maximum of 75%. The clutch would basically react as if you were shifting with the pedal 3/4 of the way down.

Although if you are ONLY having the problem in third gear you may have an issue with the shifter linkage. Is the shifter sloppy at all? Is there any amount of free play in the shifter?

[StevenC]

Thanks for the reply. Since January we've switched
the transmission twice. They just checked the linkage
and they still don't know what it is. Super frustrating. We took it to the dealer and they want to charge 2k for
Inspecting the clutch and transmission. Mechanic doesn't want to give us our money back either. Any pointers on what we should do?? Out of ideas what to check. We also just replaced the clutch last year. Thanks for all your help gents.

Steve

[tpollauf]

Steve. I too have a 2009 with the manual 5-speed tranny BUT coupled to the bigger 2.4lk engine (not sure what yours is) but irrelevant at this point. Need lots more info from you. Why was the clutch replaced in the first place? Immediately after the clutch job was done, did the car shift flawlessly through all gears? When this "grinding" became apparent, was is gradual or all of a sudden? Did the car experience any sudden shock or trauma (severe pothole, crazy out of control driving) or any other mechanical work done to it?

I too would be inclined to think that the linkage of shifter lever got bent or not properly set once the clutch job was done. Even more so knowing that a completely unnecessary tranny job was done to it. At this point someone needs to be in the car and actually shift the car in & out of 3rd gear, then unbolt the shifter arm to verify that it traveled the full distance. I'm not sure how these font drive trannys adjust BUT the older Muncie & Saginaw gearboxes that GM used were easy to adjust and this was exactly how you did it. Good luck

[jolt]

The shift linkage to the transmission are cables. The cables are attached to the shiftier by plastic adapters over a ball, something like older cars had for carburetor linkage. The adjustments are on the top side at the shiftier. If one of the plastic adapters for the cables is cracked and/or the shiftier is worn out, then the shifts in and out of gears may not be timed properly because of worn shiftier parts. More information is needed as tpollauf has asked for...was this the cause of the clutch replacement in the first place? What kind of noise is it? Can you feel anything in the shiftier? What does it feel like going into 3rd gear and what does the shiftier feel like when pulling it out of 3rd gear? Is it only 3rd gear or is it just that 3rd gear is the worst? It is the little details that are needed to diagnosis any problem so that parts of the system can be confirmed good or bad.

[StevenC]

Hey All,

Finally got our money back and switching mechanics now.
We brought it to the dealership after the shady mechanic.
They looked at all the linkage. Looks good they said, not the problem. Verified the transmission was changed by the previous mechanic. Clutch was changed because it was worn outs according to my wife and it was hard to shift through all the gears the year before. Dealer wanted to take apart the tranny. Quoted 5k. Ouch. We're taking it to another mechanic.

It only has problems shifting up into 3rd from 2nd *not* down from 4th to 3rd. Almost gives a little bit of resistance and then makes grind noise. Similar noise to when you don't hold down the clutch all the way. Only 3rd and usually only when the car is cold.. when you first drive it for the first time that day. Doesn't matter if weather is hot or cold. Just first couple drives and shifts of the day up to 3rd does it do it. The original mechanic said he changed the fluid. My buddy said he may have used junky fluid and to put better full synthetic fluid in it.( any recommendations on what type and if we should go for it). Does this help give any insight on what it might be? Let me know if I can provide any other info.

Thanks for your help again guys!
Steve
Steve

[StevenC]

..Also to add to my post above- we changed the clucth last July and it happened in December. The problem happened suddenly.

[jolt]

It sounds more like a shift or linkage problem when it only makes noise up shifting to third but not down shifting into third gear. Try this as a further test when shifting from second gear to third; push clutch pedal in, shift from second to neutral, let clutch pedal out and move shift lever back and forth in neutral. Now push the clutch pedal in and shift to third gear as the car is moving down the road. Does it still make noise?

This is also called "double clutching" and was done in the thirties, forties, and fifties before manual transmissions had synchronizes in the transmissions. Back then, if you were good at shifting, you did not need to use the clutch to shift. As long as you had the vehicle at the proper speed, the engine at the proper rpm, and were shifting into the proper gear, with just a costing load on the drive train, you could up shift to the next gear with no clutch and have no grinding from the transmission. Now a days, you see NASCAR road course drivers making shifts all race long without using the clutch and that is possible because of the massive development done on the synchronizers, transmission gear ratios, and drivers watching what rpm they shift at.

Your description sound like it could be not completely moved out of second gear when it is trying to engage third gear. By moving the shift lever to neutral first and moving the shift lever back and forth in neutral, your making sure it is out of second before putting it into third gear. You had the same problem with two different transmissions, so it is highly unlikely that the transmission is the problem. That is my guess for now, as everything over the internet is a guess here. I can not see it, hear it, feel it, to know what it is doing, it is a guess.

[StevenC]

Thanks Jolt! I'm swapping out the tranny fluid one more
time. Will try the double clutching tomorrow. Any idea why it only has the grind problem when it's cold? Once you drive it around a while the same day it's good. Then it reverts back to grinding into third the next day until you drive it around a while

[trb]

That does sound odd that it is only grinding when cold. My first thought is a lubrication issue, but since you've changed it a couple of times, that might not be it. But it is a relatively cheap thing to try. On my Mustang it would grind when I had water contaminated fluid, and once I changed it, it worked great. FWIW, I always skip gears, 1,2,4,6 in my 6 speed, and 1,2,5 in my Mustang on normal driving. I would just skip 3rd for the first 10 min or so of driving for now until you can figure it out.

[jolt]

The cooler the transmission is; the thicker the gear lube is. A cold transmission shifts harder than a hot transmission. The gears do not slide on the shafts as easy in the cold, thick lube. More force is needed to shift the transmission gears from the shiftier and shifting cables when cold. This is where synthetic gear lube really shines as it does not get as thick as regular gear lube when cold. You are using GL-4 75w gear lube? A shiftier does wear out, linkage gets worn and things are just not as tight as they used to be. Those speed shifts you use to do just do not happen smoothly with a loose, worn shiftier. A used shiftier and cables from a salvage car would be a lot cheaper than a transmission and since you have already did the transmission swap and have the same problem, I doubt another transmission is going to fix it. The clutch master and slave cylinder could be suspect but when the problem only happens up shifting to third gear, that kind of rules that out as a problem part.

[StevenC]

Thanks for the reply gents. We just got the car back after changing the tranny fluid. As suspected, still grinds shifting up to third when cold. I did try "double clutching" as one of the posters above suggested and to my surprise NO GRIND at all! Not sure if that changes anything, but at least it's a temporary fix. Will try looking at the linkage an shifter parts.

[ktayler1]

I have had the same issue since changing the transmission fluid in my 09 vibe with the 1.8 and five speed. Grinds when cold. I've tried a few different transmission fluids and nothing seems to solve the problem. Double clutching when cold has been my life for the last two years. After two or three minutes on the highway, my problem is solved. I read somewhere that there is a tsb about a weak shift fork on third in the c59, not sure if that helps. Let me know if you've found a solution!

[ktayler1]

http://workshop-manuals.com/toyota/coro ... _3rd_gear/ Here is the TSB

[Capt.Vibe]

I have had the same issue since changing the transmission fluid in my 09 vibe with the 1.8 and five speed. Grinds when cold. I've tried a few different transmission fluids and nothing seems to solve the problem. Double clutching when cold has been my life for the last two years. After two or three minutes on the highway, my problem is solved. I read somewhere that there is a tsb about a weak shift fork on third in the c59, not sure if that helps. Let me know if you've found a solution!

What fluids have you tried and what viscosity? Make sure you are using a straight 75W Toyota GL-4. If you used the GM GL-4 75W-85 recommendation in the owners manual that oil is too thick and will cause notchy shifting and possibly grinds when cold especially in 3rd gear. That's what happened to me when I swapped to the GM spec. These are factory filled with a very thin straight 75W Toyota GL-4. Not many aftermarket supply that viscosity. Had to swap back to the original spec but had to import Ravenol 75W as the Toyota 75W goes for $60/liter in QC. I got my factory smooth shifting back.