2005 ODD IDLE...please read

[jasonvibe]

I have owned it since new. Idle was always 700rpm. NOW, I am having an idle issue coming to a stop, and after. >>>> The idle drops low enought to be felt thru the seat, then picks up to normal a second after I stop and it's...smooth. But after 6 seconds sitting , drops 50 rpm and stays there(approx.625-650rpm) and can be felt. The low idle coming to a stop can be limited by coming to a stop quickly. Now, I have done all the known "intake leak repairs", replaced Intake manifold & throttle body gaskets. Cleaned then replaced the idle air speed control unit(not cheap). Then I found that the toyota brand hoses from the EVAP system to the manifold are poor and had cracked causing leaks. These were replaced. Then replaced all the lame clamps with EFI or better clamps on everything going to and from the manifold. Basicaly I am saying all possible intake leak areas checked used the WD40 check. Which helped me find these hose issues. If I clear the ECU. It's good for a day or so. Also no other driving issues. I can redline this AWD automatic in 1st thru 3rd gears. NOTE: the funky idle does NOT happen at night at all or much with the A/C on because the ECU kicks the idle up with these extra loads. I have approx. 100k on it but it has been doing this for over a year. Anyone have an idea or this issue before and cured it ?...Is it the ECU...? Partially clogged CAT ?

[canadave]

Any OBD2 engine codes? Has a tech hooked up an OBD2 scanner to it and come up with anything?

[jasonvibe]

NO codes now or pending. In fact , the symptom gets worse the warmer the overall temperature...60's vs. 80's w/o A/C on. Having the A/C on just bypasses the issue as the idle gets bumped up with A/C on.

[zythr]

Could be normal?

[jasonvibe]

My original post I stated I have had the car since new 2005. It used to idle perfectly under any condition.And it started doing this just the past year. It was must worse before I found 2 vacuum leaks. I have systematically eliminated all other possible vacuum leaks. Reset the ECU. But it's still there. This is not normal...warmer it gets the worse it gets to idle. I have completely scanned it with a computer program(laptop) and the O2 , temp.and MAF sensors seem good.

[circuitsmith]

FIrst, dump a bottle of Chevron Techron in the gas tank.
Next, check valve clearances.
Third, do a compression test.

[jasonvibe]

FIrst, dump a bottle of Chevron Techron in the gas tank.
Next, check valve clearances.
Third, do a compression test.

CHEVRON...DID IT....no diff.
VALVE CHECK ...DID IT... all center of specs. And I changed the spark plugs.
Since Valve check is OK done by me, and does not burn any oil between oil changes...so no compression check done.
I did check the MAF reading at idle on my PC program. It was 1.8 gm/sec. Meaning it's sucking air in past the MAF within spec. 1.4 to 2.0.

Another thing I did was check the EVAP system.When the issue happens it's warm. There is a test in the manual for EVAP system. And FACT the EVAP runs more in warm weather driving than cold weather. I did the test. It easily passed the "pressure test". Manual says give it 5 minutes. I had NO leaks pressure drop... after doing this test for 20 min.
Also a nother note: I rarely get a "swoosh" when removing the gas cap...UNLESS there is a significant change in temperatures. EX: car shut off 6pm 90 degrees and Then in the morning I remove the gas cap it's 60 degrees prior to heading out, or happen to go to the gas station 1st stop in the AM. This seems normal. aka gas cap good.

[Water boy]

FIrst, dump a bottle of Chevron Techron in the gas tank.
Next, check valve clearances.
Third, do a compression test.

CHEVRON...DID IT....no diff.
VALVE CHECK ...DID IT... all center of specs. And I changed the spark plugs.
Since Valve check is OK done by me, and does not burn any oil between oil changes...so no compression check done.
I did check the MAF reading at idle on my PC program. It was 1.8 gm/sec. Meaning it's sucking air in past the MAF within spec. 1.4 to 2.0.

Another thing I did was check the EVAP system.When the issue happens it's warm. There is a test in the manual for EVAP system. And FACT the EVAP runs more in warm weather driving than cold weather. I did the test. It easily passed the "pressure test". Manual says give it 5 minutes. I had NO leaks pressure drop... after doing this test for 20 min.
Also a nother note: I rarely get a "swoosh" when removing the gas cap...UNLESS there is a significant change in temperatures. EX: car shut off 6pm 90 degrees and Then in the morning I remove the gas cap it's 60 degrees prior to heading out, or happen to go to the gas station 1st stop in the AM. This seems normal. aka gas cap good.

Not able to help yet, but that highlighted item has me wondering what that is?

[circuitsmith]

The ECM should be adjusting the idle to spec in 6+ seconds, even with a leak etc. "pushing/pulling" it.
Check the battery voltage next time the idle gets down and dirty. DC and AC ripple.
Does turning the blower (no AC) to high make the low idle go up?
I just have a hunch...

[jasonvibe]

The ECM should be adjusting the idle to spec in 6+ seconds, even with a leak etc. "pushing/pulling" it.
Check the battery voltage next time the idle gets down and dirty. DC and AC ripple.
Does turning the blower (no AC) to high make the low idle go up?
I just have a hunch...

TURNING THE BLOWER On high idles goes down a bit. That is due to alternator load. The ECM/idle air control does compensate for it mostly. But blower motor or not, the idle drops below spec after six seconds. And more noticeable with blower on. But it's normal prior to the 6 second "time up". It surely does not go up. ALSO any vacuum leak between the MAF and the engine itself cannot be fully compensated for by the ECM. Trust me on this one. That voltage idea tends to make sense. But I did check the voltage a while back last year. I made a special connector to plug from access outlet into my voltmeter. Oh and I even bought a NEW alternator...thinking voltafge. Made no diff. And lucky they let me return it because the new one was a noisy alternator. So I still have the original in. I will check Voltage again. Also I have a new battery last year. The original battery was still GOOD. But at 7 years old...was pushing it. YES, I am able to plug into the OBDII port with my laptop and monitor many things. with the special PC program I have. I hope this clears PC program question up. But I think I may have found something. It seems when the EVAP is going -clicking( which can only be heard when hood up-normal) the idle is...poorer than no EVAP going aka- cold engine. EVAP clicks all the time once the car is warmed up . Again this has always been like this. AS stated earlier I did check for EVAP system and solenoid valve for leaks. But there is something I am missing...I think. Could the charcoal canister be wasted under the gas tank cause this ? But I have no codes thrown out...

[Chiadog]

YES, I am able to plug into the OBDII port with my laptop and monitor many things. with the special PC program I have. I hope this clears PC program question up.

Can you be more specific about the program you use and how you connect your PC to the OBDII ? I'd like to do the same thing for diagnosing my cars if it isn't too expensive.

[Water boy]

YES, I am able to plug into the OBDII port with my laptop and monitor many things. with the special PC program I have. I hope this clears PC program question up.

Can you be more specific about the program you use and how you connect your PC to the OBDII ? I'd like to do the same thing for diagnosing my cars if it isn't too expensive.

+1

[jasonvibe]

"ELMSCAN5...compact" is what I have. Got in on AMAZON about $20 I think. Very usefull. Also to whom it may concern when assisting me.... My car is the OLD EFI..NOT DBW.

[Water boy]

Website linky
http://www.scantool.net/

5 year old YouTube video of how to install it.
http://youtu.be/Qw4zdmREpMw

[circuitsmith]

here's the ScanTool I bought in 2011:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004IA ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jasonvibe]

Yes, that's what I have but not the "glowy red" look ...mine is black. I found I paid $30 also in 2011. Mine clearly says ElmScan5 on it. Is yours ElmScan5? But I see mine and yours are LISTED by Scantool. They are likely the same. Pretty useful item

[Chiadog]

Thanks Guys!
Sounds like the ScanTool 425801 OBDLink SX is more advanced and comes with free updates:
http://www.scantool.net/catalog/product_compare/index/
http://www.scantool.net/scan-tools/pc-based/

[jasonvibe]

what you are paying for is the program of the PC. But comparing the two types I see no difference of the features or capability. Except, your does CAN diagnostics. Needed on many Euro cars. I do know you can pay more for an "ACTIVE" program to do tests to specific systems and emission controls. As for free updates. I checked...mine has free unlimited software updates. I did not know they ever charged for updates ? mine has free firmware upgrades.

[circuitsmith]

For an extra $20 I got extra features that may be useful later

[jasonvibe]

other than working on the newer CAN systems...what else might be different ?

[jasonvibe]

FYI- this problem was originally was most noticeable in the day, as the ECM would kick up the idle at night due to the fog lights and rear lights on...aka electrical load compensation. So all testing was done in the daytime. I think I have found MORE vacuum leaks. I previously had thought all had been found. WELL, I think I got is figured out...the bad idle. Last year I replaced the EVAP hose from the solenoid(strut tower) to the manifold. That was a big difference.Simply...these hoses are JUNK! They are not rated for what they are using them for...gas fumes in a HOT area. There is NO rating on them. Just pre-bent junk. NOW I have found the EVAP hose from fire wall to the solenoid also leaking. There is a green test port ONLY used by the mechanic for testing. Look for it. This was also a leak source, took that out also. Basically it's not needed. You will likely find cracks in yours and everyone's dried out EVAP hoses should you disconnect them and look inside them. This bad hose explains why the idle is worse when the EVAP was kicking in. Also Remember I changed the intake manifold gasket approx 2 years ago. That required the brake booster hose to be disconnected too. Now, I found the brake booster hose leaking where it's clamped to the "metal pipe" at the engine near the tranny. One word of wisdom.. disconnect a hose on the engine. REPLACE IT with better quality stuff. I used for EVAP 5/16" Gates hose from NAPA. Goodyear is also another good brand. But the old clamps will not work. I used EFI 13-15mm clamps from IDEAL. Also sold under the NAPA brand. For the brake booster...replaced the clamp with a better one.The car still idles down after 6 seconds but it's not as much and not causing a "Vibrating" idle. My wife drives it 95% of the time. So the idle down thing I do not remember when we bought it new. Maybe it's lowering the idle to the minimum 650rpm to save gas. Anyone else notice this "idle down" after sitting still for 6 seconds or so with an auto transmission. ???