2003 AWD Catalytic Converter?

[ergalthema]

For a few years, it has had an oil leak which appears to be getting in the spark plugs and coming out the exhaust.

Yesterday, the car started losing power rapidly. I'm at a mechanic who says the converter appears to be clogged and I will need a new one.

They are having trouble finding a replacement converter. Anyone have any info about this situation, and possibly a lead on a part number? It's AWD.

The mechanic suggests replacing the cat on the pipe with a universal, but I'm wondering if the problem might be located in the manifold. (Edited to update)

[SeattleJeremy]

Has the oil leak been fixed?

There are two Catalytic converters in the AWD Vibe/Matrix. One is inside the exhaust manifold (#1), the other is a "normal" one (#8)

There are no universal ones that will fit the #1 location, but the #8 one can be replaced using a universal one.

The manifold can be purchased from toyota parts vendors cheaper than the Gm vendors.
Here is a link to a Toyota vendor, I have no first hand experience with this vendor.
http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2003/T ... am=8440205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ergalthema]

Thanks seattlejeremy! That is very helpful. I'll called the mechanic to ask about the manifold cat and he is looking into it. I don't want to pay to switch the other cat only to find that the problem is in the manifold.

The oil leak is tricky and I don't plan to fix it. I'm moving across the country and I just want to get the car across so I can trade it toward a new car. I'm sure that having a car loaded with all my stuff contributed to this issue.

[ergalthema]

SeattleJeremy, or anyone:
Earlier, the mechanic tested the pressure somewhere and determined that the cat was plugged up. Now that he knows there are two cats, he suggests that he takes off the exhaust and tests the pressure before the pipe, as well as looking at it with a small camera. That way, if the pressure is okay there, we can determine that the problem is with the pipe cat and I only need to replace that one for around $500. However, if the pressure reads bad with the pipe off, then it means the manifold cat is bad (and possibly the pipe cat as well). In that case, the whole thing would need to be replaced to the tune of around $1000.

Does that sound right?

[Salsa Guy]

Yes it sounds right. Those down pipe cats systems are not cheap because they require all the piping.

Solution: Gut the CAT material out of the down pipe cat and install a quality aftermarket for 2nd CAT. Your O2 will never know the difference if it does install a defouler.

Guys have done this to gain some power but it really didn't help.

Good Luck!

[ergalthema]

Solution: Gut the CAT material out of the down pipe cat and install a quality aftermarket for 2nd CAT.

I'm guessing this is something the mechanic won't do because they could be fined?

[Salsa Guy]

Well I'm not sure of the laws regarding this in your state. Certainly it falls into a grey area. You are replacing 2 small CATs with one larger one like the other FWD Vibe/Matrix/Corollas. I'm almost 90% sure your engine won't throw a code and will pass any sniff tests (some states just check the OBDII others put a sniffer in the tail pipe). As long as the aftermarket CAT works as well the stock cats there shouldn't be an issue.

An OBX Matrix 1zz header will also fit with some minor mods, if you can deal with the noise. There has been a few gutted AWD exhaust manifolds floating around for sale.

I've considered cat-less on my car or gutting my 1st cat and putting a hi-flow cat on #2 but don't want to deal with all that right now.

[ergalthema]

The mechanic is afraid of being fined for removing any of the cat.

They pulled the pipe and did some tests at the manifold, and it showed that the pressure is bad there, so before the cat on the pipe. They quoted me a little over $700 to replace it with a Matrix manifold and gaskets(Pontiac's are discontinued and hard to find). I decided to get a second opinion at a Mieneke, and they said the same thing and estimated around $1000 to fix it.

So I'm scheduled to have it fixed (hopefully) tomorrow.

[Salsa Guy]

You must have some strict laws there. None the less it's good you are having it repaired. You may want to consider replacing the 1st O2 sensor if you haven't already. There has been reports of the engine running rich causing the CATs to plug. There is also a TSB regarding a P0133 and the AWD Vibe/Matrix that should be a free ECU reflash.

[Salsa Guy]

I've been reading some posts about some issues with the pre-cat. They fail rarely but when they do it will trash the engine and the other cat.

[jasonvibe]

YOU WERE TOLD THE CAT WAS IN THE MANIFOLD...THAT'S VERY ODD... The first cat is clearly visable on the 1st down pipe FROM the manifold. And easily swapped out. I suspect you need to find someone who really knows how Toyotas are put together. It's in part #6 on the diagram. And you say you have an oil leak into the spark plug area that causes smoke out the exhaust.. What... you have a loose spark plug ? Otherwise your engine is worn out And the oil smoke clogged the CAT up. Which was not from the "leak" you describe.

[Salsa Guy]

There is a "Pre-Cat" on the AWD. Not sure about the FWD.

[jasonvibe]

I was sure the manifolds are the same. Precat they all have, but in the 1st down pipe...can be seen as an obvious BULGE. It's not big bulge. So I may be wrong. BUT Cat in the manifold. I hope not. As that would make it only available from Toyota or GM. I think that is known as a consumable part like any other part of the exhaust, O2 sensor, etc., and thought that was not legal that you must run back to the OEM for it. I will look again at mine. And if desperate...that cat can be drilled out once the exhaust is disassmbled. Then it will really run. I do see the AWD toyota part is available ONLINE discount for $181., retail $226...which is not a lot of dough. But GM retail is $538. ONLINE GM parts direct wants $335.....So also gaskets would be needed for joints and manifold....and I suspect 3 hours labor. Few months ago I tried to get an exhaust down-pipe gasket #9 replaced. Turns out the Toyota item did not fit. Or the Toy- parts guy did not know how to look up parts. I had to go to GM for the correct gasket. NOW looking at both GM and Toyota online sites there is a huge difference in price of the MAIN CAT pipe #8. GM retail is approx. $400 where Toyota wants almost $1000. *** Is everyone SURE these two AWD cars are same drive train etc. mechaically the same? Can the exhaust be different ? Seems possible comparing prices...

[ergalthema]

The pre-cat from Toyota seemed to fix the problem and the car ran okay until I traded it a few days ago. It was a good 11 years and 225k miles.

[jasonvibe]

The pre-cat from Toyota seemed to fix the problem and the car ran okay until I traded it a few days ago. It was a good 11 years and 225k miles.

WOW...225K... Also this exact AWD model was built to 2006 . So they must have parts available for a min. of 7 years from whomever sells it Toy or GM.Yours is a Vibe...but the Toyota part fit properly, YES ???? and how much did they charge for just the part ?

[jasonvibe]

You must have some strict laws there. None the less it's good you are having it repaired. You may want to consider replacing the 1st O2 sensor if you haven't already. There has been reports of the engine running rich causing the CATs to plug. There is also a TSB regarding a P0133 and the AWD Vibe/Matrix that should be a free ECU reflash.

The free ECU reflash I think is only on Toyotas. Does anyone have the bulletin # from GM to do this ?

[ergalthema]

I'm thinking the part was around $500. The total was around $700. I was moving from the west coast to east coast and the car broke down about half way, so it was worth it for me to fix the cat and trade the car opposed to ditching the car and using a rental or something to finish the move.

[jasonvibe]

THE TOY DEALER BY ME REALIZED the exhaust may be differnt because exhaust gasket #9 Toyota did not fit...at least the one they ordered. I had to order from GM. The Toy maifold fit a Vibe...good to know

[Salsa Guy]

Bulletin No.: 09-06-04-008B

Do a search on Google and it pulled up a docx on Genvibe.