Check Engine + SensaTrac + VSC OFF *flashing*

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:07 am

Hello!I am not new on these forums, not very old either, and I don't know much about my Vibe 2009's mechanic and electronic. I didn't had to do much in under the hood since I got it (April 2011).This morning everything was fine... but after work, I got into the car, drove for 2 minutes and then I noticed that the VSC OFF was flashing... I went to press the button on the left of the steering that can turn off the VSC module, but I realized that it was non-sense because when you start the vehicule, this module will always return to the ON position...THEN I also noticed that the CHECK ENGINE and SENSATRAC lights were lit... ?!?I pulled over in a quiet street to turn off the engine... I let it stand for 1 minute and I started the vehicule again, but the 3 lights were still there.I went for gaz, it took 3 minutes, and after that, the light were still ON.I got home, hoping for the lights to turn off on the drive home, but no.I got home, turned off the car, poped the hood open, and I started to take a look... and since I don't know this car, I had the same look on my face than people on the side of the road have when they have a car breakdown and pop open the hood and have no clue what they are doing under the hood...!BUT, one pair of connectors attracted my attention: it's on the right side of the car (driver's side) and it has 2 connectors, one being twice as long as the other one. I'm convinced it's the car's computer. The connectors are attached by a grey arm that you lift to unclip the bigass connectors.I unplugged both of them and I replugged them... then I went in the car, turn the ignition ON: the lights went ON as usual on the system boot-up, and then they went AWAY! I turned the engine ON and the lights remained shut.I fixed it? Or is it a simple coincidence?Is this issue "common"?Today we had a 24-25Â°C day with sun and windy, but all of a sudden, for about 20 minutes, we had huge rain, then it all went away and the sky came back sunny and blue.Could it be something related to humidity? Could it be related to these connectors? Could it be a mix of both?I couldn't notice any water or condensation in the connectors housing.I was very disapointed that my car had a severe problem... I know that VSC and SensaTrac problems can be expensive to fix, expecially if you need to replace electronic components. Now, I hope it won't come back. Else I might need to buy an ERROR CODE READER in order to have a better comprehension of what's going on.But if anyone here have any clue of what could have happened, feel VERY free to join the conversation... I have mixed feelings right now. Was sad on the way home, then I got the lights to go away with the first thing I tried.. I should be proud, but I'm unsure about it being fixed forever!Thanks a lot to everyone!

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:16 am

I had this same issue with my 09 GT not too long ago.It has been a few weeks since I took it to the dealer and so far the lights have not come back on.

ou.grizzly · Post by **ou.grizzly** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:28 am

Same happened to me and it ended up being my PCM as it failed... I waited 30 days for the part, and with a week and a half, the lights came back on again.

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:06 pm

I went for a 30 minutes trip to get some stuff for the upcoming baby (I probably will post this in the "Vibe can haul" thread), and the lights never came back.I wonder if the cables I unplugged simply rebooted the computer... all I know is when the lights were flashing, I was able to spin the wheels since it had just rain, which I can never do when the lights are off.I should try to make a patch with the lights off tomorrow to see it the systems are all working properly.I read your thread about the same problem and heard about the ABS... which was my first thought when I first saw the lights. I hope there's nothing wrong with the sensors... I just don't want to put money on the car right now! I just got rid of my Golf because it wa scausing too much problems! And I got a Vibe because all the people I know never had to put a dime on the car.:SI'll keep looking on this thread and on yours and put updates as I have them.Thanks!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:06 pm

GF took the Vibe this morning... we had a good rainy day and night yesterday and this morning, about 15 minutes away from home, the 3 lights went back ON ...I'm soooo pissed.

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:39 am

Quote, originally posted by alex_nrv Â»GF took the Vibe this morning... we had a good rainy day and night yesterday and this morning, about 15 minutes away from home, the 3 lights went back ON ...I'm soooo pissed.Hmmm... maybe try giving the MAF/IAT sensors and air filter a good cleaning...When I re-installed my CAI after the last trip to the dealer, I cleaned the MAF/IAT sensors and air filter really well and the lights have not come back on since. Just an idea.

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:13 pm

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY Â»Hmmm... maybe try giving the MAF/IAT sensors and air filter a good cleaning...When I re-installed my CAI after the last trip to the dealer, I cleaned the MAF/IAT sensors and air filter really well and the lights have not come back on since. Just an idea.CAI? MAF? IAT? LOL? I don't know most of these abbreviations, sorry!BTW, I went out tonight and checked if the lights were still on... and they were. So I did the same thing I did the first time: I disconnected both connectors (which are near the air filter) and reconnected them and the lights were then off... we'll see how long this will last.Next time, I'll see if I can get someone to read the codes... I'm not really willing to pay GM to plug a code scanner when someone else could do it for nothing!

star_deceiver · Post by **star_deceiver** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:19 pm

Quote, originally posted by alex_nrv Â»CAI? MAF? IAT? Cold Air IntakeMass Air Flow sensorIntake Air Temperature sensorThe sensors themselves are pretty easy to clean. There's various threads here that show you how!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:22 am

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver Â»Cold Air IntakeMass Air Flow sensorIntake Air Temperature sensorThe sensors themselves are pretty easy to clean. There's various threads here that show you how! Cool, thanks, I'll have a look on the forum to find those threads about how to clean those sensors.

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:25 am

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver Â»Cold Air IntakeMass Air Flow sensorIntake Air Temperature sensorThe sensors themselves are pretty easy to clean. There's various threads here that show you how! Here's a how-to for cleaning the MAF/IAT sensors .As far as unplugging those connectors, disconnecting the negative battery cable for 30 minutes will achieve the same result FYI .

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY Â»Here's a how-to for cleaning the MAF/IAT sensors .As far as unplugging those connectors, disconnecting the negative battery cable for 30 minutes will achieve the same result FYI .Thanks for the link!But I am really pessimist about it being the problem... I mean, what's the link with the Stability Control of the vehicule? I really wonder...I hate to unplug and replug the battery wires. Sometimes it produces unexpected sparks and I really hate it! lol! And it resets all your settings. My ex-Golf 96 had a built-in alarm system and when you would reconnect the negative pole, the alarm would suddenly ring out loud since the alarm horn is right under the battery. I always got scared to replug that car's battery wure!Anyways, disconnecting those connectors on the Vibe only takes 2 seconds to unplug, no tools required, and you replug them back on right away and the lights are gone... no need to wait 30 minutes... though I wonder if you really need to let the car sit 30 minutes with the negative wire disconnected for the ights to reset. A couple seconds/minutes shouls do the trick.Thanks!

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:36 am

Quote, originally posted by alex_nrv Â»Thanks for the link!But I am really pessimist about it being the problem... I mean, what's the link with the Stability Control of the vehicule? I really wonder...I hate to unplug and replug the battery wires. Sometimes it produces unexpected sparks and I really hate it! lol! And it resets all your settings. My ex-Golf 96 had a built-in alarm system and when you would reconnect the negative pole, the alarm would suddenly ring out loud since the alarm horn is right under the battery. I always got scared to replug that car's battery wure!Anyways, disconnecting those connectors on the Vibe only takes 2 seconds to unplug, no tools required, and you replug them back on right away and the lights are gone... no need to wait 30 minutes... though I wonder if you really need to let the car sit 30 minutes with the negative wire disconnected for the ights to reset. A couple seconds/minutes shouls do the trick.Thanks!You're welcome for the link! Well, cleaning the MAF/IAT sensors wouldn't really have any effect on the Traction and Vehicle Stability Control lights, but it may take care of the check engine light. Cleaning the MAF/IAT sensors definitely won't hurt anything, so it's worth a try. I used to hate disconnecting batteries too, but as long as you're careful and you don't let the cable touch any metal, you'll be fine . It's totally normal for the terminal to spark a bit when disconnecting and re-connecting the cable/s. As far as losing settings, etc., the only thing I lose is having the auto text enabled for XM. All my presets and other settings are still in tact. Of course, you will also have to re-set the clock, and date if you so desire, but that takes all of a few seconds.I'm sure it doesn't take long to disconnect those two connectors, I just figured I'd post about disconnecting the negative battery cable as well. I have always read to let the vehicle sit for 30 minutes with the negative battery cable unhooked, so that's just what I do. I don't know whether it's truly necessary or not, but it's not a big deal, so I just go ahead and do it.

joshuaeb09 · Post by **joshuaeb09** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:35 pm

If you are popping an emission code it will throw all 3 lights on and sometimes put u in limp mode. Sucks when it happens on the freeway. I would check for the dreaded p0420. I would borrow a code reader so you can see what code it is throwing. .

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:46 pm

Thanks J_TO_ENVY! Your input is appreciated.joshuaeb09: My car doesn't switch to "limp" mode. I still have all the power I need... in fact, like I said earlier, when all the 3 lights are on, I have no traction control and if I give too much gas when leaving a stop, the wheels spin (normally tthey're not). So I still have all the power from the engine.But I will for sure have someone read the code when they'll come back on (I just hope not...)I have a feeling this is caused by condensation/moisture... both times, they came on when it was raining. Maybe there's a "weak" connection somewhere and when the water gets in there, it causes a bug to the computer and the system fails. (I had moisture problems with my ignition on the Golf 96 and just had to put WD-40 on the ignition coil to fix it).I am thinking about having my car sprayed with Krown anti-rust... If I have a moisture problem, I jut hope spraying oil all over will shield the part from water and fix the issue... (though the real fix would be to actually know where it's coming from and address THIS problem!)Thanks!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:49 pm

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY Â»I had this same issue with my 09 GT not too long ago.It has been a few weeks since I took it to the dealer and so far the lights have not come back on. BTW, you had this problem ONCE? And it never came back since?

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:32 am

Quote, originally posted by alex_nrv Â»BTW, you had this problem ONCE? And it never came back since?Actually, all three lights came back on today and it was running a tad bit rough .

ou.grizzly · Post by **ou.grizzly** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:09 am

Like I said, with my AWD the lights came on, waited 30 days for a PCM as it failed, was replaced, within 2 weeks lights came on again, few days later lights, went off, car was GONE by the end of the week.Other 2009 Vibe dash lights been on since Spring and have not brought it in as it seems pointless... Regret trading in my 2008 Frosty as it was trouble free....

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:52 am

I did some searching on Matrix Owners and found quite a few posts regarding this same issue.One easy thing that kept coming up was checking the gas cap to make sure it's on tight. I did just get gas last week, so I thought this was as good a place to start as any. I took the gas cap off and put it back on making sure it was nice and tight, then I disconnected the negative battery terminal to clear the lights. So far so good, although I only drove it about 10 miles. If the lights come back on, my next step will be to take it to Auto Zone and see if they can tell what codes it's throwing. There were a few other things on MO about people having this issue and it ended up being a bad wheel speed sensor among other things, so we'll see what happens...

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:30 pm

Thanks J_TO_ENVY!It's been two weeks today since the lights came on and after the reset, they didn't come back. We had at least two good rainy days and the lights didn't came ON...For the gas cap, I already thought about this... plus, when I tank, you can read on the cap that a unproperly screwed cap can cause a CHECK ENGINE. But our problem is more than a simple CHECK ENGINE, it's linked with the VSC and SensaTrac.I'm almost certain my lights will come back and when they do, I will have the code(s) read and I will report them here.As for the wheel speed sensor, anything is possible. Any glitch affecting the system seems to cause the computer to act crazy and disable itself. Any sensors can cause this problem... too much electronic these days on cars. It's a nice security system to have, but at what cost?Imagine what a brand new car would cost these days if there were no electronics involved!!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:34 pm

O....K.. !So here's a new upadte (though not helpful).Monday morning, we had rain. It rained through sunday night. I went in my car to leave for work, and then exiting my driveway, I noticed the SENSATRAC was ON... and the checkengine and the VSC flashing. I pulled over to disconnect the computer and reconnected it... the lights went off, but then back on immediately after 5 seconds.I told myself that I would leave them ON so I can ask my cousin for the code reading.The rain stopped around noon.Monday night, I had a hockey game, so I drove 30 minutes to get there with the lights ON. After the game, I got back to my car, turn it on... surprise surprise, the lights are OFF.. ??? I would never had expected this! I NEVER thought the check engine would clear by itself, I thought check engine lights were to STAY until read and cleared.Until now, the lights ALWAYS came ON while or right after a rain.I'll certainly have the obvious wires checked and greased to repell humidity... I' stuck on the idea that it's humidity that causes the problems. That's VERY ironic, since my VW Golf also had a major humidity problem with the ignition coil, preventing the car from starting... a shot of WD40 would repell the water and then the car would start immediately.Let's just hope this won't be a lifetime problem!

AllWheelVibe · Post by **AllWheelVibe** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:21 am

VSC ON and CHECK ENGINE *might* have nothing to do whatever with VSC. I say this because on my 2004 Sienna, which like the Vibe, is basically a Toyota, we had an instance where VSC ON came on with check engine on a trip downhill to the Grand Canyon. This caused some concern at the time.... But when we checked with the Las Vegas Toyota dealer (nearest one) it turned out that what the computer was trying to indicate was there was a problem with the O2 sensor. Had nothing to do at all with the VSC, skid control, or other vehicle stability stuff. New O2 sensor and everything was fine and it has not happened since.Thanks, Toyota!! They call them "idiot lights" but here was a case where the lights themselves were idiotic. Again this may or may not have anything to do with your symptoms, but I would not read too much into VSC being on. Cheers, Dave

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:35 am

Quote, originally posted by AllWheelVibe Â»VSC ON and CHECK ENGINE *might* have nothing to do whatever with VSC. I say this because on my 2004 Sienna, which like the Vibe, is basically a Toyota, we had an instance where VSC ON came on with check engine on a trip downhill to the Grand Canyon. This caused some concern at the time.... But when we checked with the Las Vegas Toyota dealer (nearest one) it turned out that what the computer was trying to indicate was there was a problem with the O2 sensor. Had nothing to do at all with the VSC, skid control, or other vehicle stability stuff. New O2 sensor and everything was fine and it has not happened since.Thanks, Toyota!! They call them "idiot lights" but here was a case where the lights themselves were idiotic. Again this may or may not have anything to do with your symptoms, but I would not read too much into VSC being on. Cheers, DaveThanks for your input!I don't know if they are related, but all I know is as SOON as the VSC/SensaTrac are on, the CHECK ENGINE is also on at the same time... and it goes away at the same time.I need the codes checked, but like I said, the lights got away by themselves this time and I didn't had time to schedule a visit to my cousin.So, you're basically saying that the CHECK ENGINE came up to tell you the o2 sensor was problematic... BUT the VSC and SKID came also on for no particular reason?Maybe when there is an electrical CHECK ENGINE related problem, the computer shuts the VSC and TRAC control in case something goes bad adn affect how the stability controls reacts. I won't know until I get the code read.I hope it's something ridiculous like O2 sensor or something... maybe cleaning the MAF sensor...Anyways, I'll for sure continue to post here as I get through this.Thanks again!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:43 pm

A little update, but no news.Saturday evening, I took the Vibe for a ride to Montreal. The lights came on about 30 seconds after I turned on the engine, while driving. As usual, it WAS RAINING saturday! So I didn't worry about the lights, I'm starting to be used to it... lol. And I don'T care if the lights come on, I need them to lit up to be able to read the code!! So I drove around a bit in Montreal... and after my last stop at a shop, I noticed that the lights were now OFF...! Yet again, I failed to have the lights ON to go to my cousin and have the code read.As soon I'll see him, he will lend me his code reader so I can read the code(s) when they occur.He told me he was almost certain the problem was humidity related. It's common for ABS connections to become damp and send a bad signal to the PCU. When I will see him. he will check the connections and put some grease on them to make them water resistant/repellant.The only thing funny... sometimes it rains like HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE, and the lights never come on during that time! It's not every rains the lights will come on, but it never happens when it's nice and sunny...T.B.C.!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:43 pm

Yesterday, we had a massive thunder storm with a lot of aggressive rain, and the 3 lights came back on.
Since I had problems with the other car and my cousin had to come home fix it, he brought his code reader to check the codes on my Vibe.
His code reader cannot read ABS codes, but he had some interesting codes to start with:

P0607 - Control Module
P0138 - O2 Sensor - Bank 1 Sensor 2

I would like to start by checking the O2 sensor, but I have no idea where it is. Anyone knows? (Don't forget, it is a Vibe 2009).
Also, where is this Contorl Module? (PCM? ECM?)

Thanks!!!

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:53 pm

AllWheelVibe wrote:VSC ON and CHECK ENGINE *might* have nothing to do whatever with VSC. I say this because on my 2004 Sienna, which like the Vibe, is basically a Toyota, we had an instance where VSC ON came on with check engine on a trip downhill to the Grand Canyon. This caused some concern at the time.... But when we checked with the Las Vegas Toyota dealer (nearest one) it turned out that what the computer was trying to indicate was there was a problem with the O2 sensor. Had nothing to do at all with the VSC, skid control, or other vehicle stability stuff. New O2 sensor and everything was fine and it has not happened since.Thanks, Toyota!! They call them "idiot lights" but here was a case where the lights themselves were idiotic. Again this may or may not have anything to do with your symptoms, but I would not read too much into VSC being on. Cheers, Dave

I just re-read the latests posts, and found this... I would also try to replace this sensor, if easily do-able by myself.

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:21 pm

I would like to start by checking the O2 sensor, but I have no idea where it is. Anyone knows, on a 2009 Vibe?

OwenMeany · Post by **OwenMeany** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:11 pm

I have had the same issue happen a couple of times with my 2009 Vibe with the LAX (2.4L engine). GM has a bulletin out to the dealers on what may be the identical issue. I have yet to check my vehicle according to the instructions but will do and will post an update if I remember to...hehe. The bulletin number is #10-06-04-010. Here is an excerpt:
Subject: Intermittent MIL/Check Engine Light On, DTCs P0607 and/or P0138, Vehicle Stability Control Lamp On, Driveability Concerns in High Ambient Temperatures with A/C On (Clean HO2S Connector and Inspect/Unplug Evaporator Drain Tube)

Cause

This condition may be caused by water leaking from the evaporator onto the electrical connector in the center IP area. The evaporator drain may be restricted, causing water to drip from the evaporator case onto the post HO2S connector. This creates a path for current to flow from the heater circuit to the HO2S signal circuit. There may not be carpet wet from this leak, only the connector.

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:19 pm

OwenMeany wrote:I have had the same issue happen a couple of times with my 2009 Vibe with the LAX (2.4L engine). GM has a bulletin out to the dealers on what may be the identical issue. I have yet to check my vehicle according to the instructions but will do and will post an update if I remember to...hehe. The bulletin number is #10-06-04-010. Here is an excerpt:
Subject: Intermittent MIL/Check Engine Light On, DTCs P0607 and/or P0138, Vehicle Stability Control Lamp On, Driveability Concerns in High Ambient Temperatures with A/C On (Clean HO2S Connector and Inspect/Unplug Evaporator Drain Tube)

Cause

This condition may be caused by water leaking from the evaporator onto the electrical connector in the center IP area. The evaporator drain may be restricted, causing water to drip from the evaporator case onto the post HO2S connector. This creates a path for current to flow from the heater circuit to the HO2S signal circuit. There may not be carpet wet from this leak, only the connector.

Please do keep us updated. I too have had intermittent issues with the Check Engine, Traction Control and Vehicle Stability Control lights coming on on my 2009 GT with 5-speed auto and am curious to know whether this TSB would solve the problem.

OwenMeany · Post by **OwenMeany** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:14 am

Well I have not had a recurrence of the P0607 or the P0138 code for a couple of weeks now (and it has only happened twice in the last year). Per the service bulletin this issue appears to be linked to hot ambient conditions so I decided to follow the instructions in the service bulletin anyway to check for moisture in and around the HO2S connector on a hot humid day with the A/C running. Well, I did not detect any moisture below the evaporator and actually could not find the HO2S connector in the area where the bulletin said it should be (maybe because I have a manual trans?? dunno). I guess I will need to find the HO2S connector in my car to see if there is any water in it but have yet to do so. The symptoms I am experiencing are exactly as described in the bulletin so at least it has me pointed in the right direction. Here is a full version of the bulletin (The HO2S connector in question is supposed to be directly behind the side IP panel which is the trim panel directly to the right of the gas pedal):

#10-06-04-010: Intermittent MIL/Check Engine Light
On, DTCs P0607 and/or P0138, Vehicle Stability Control
Lamp On, Driveability Concerns in High Ambient
Temperatures with A/C On (Clean HO2S Connector and
Inspect...) - (Jul 22, 2010)
Condition
Some customers may comment on an intermittent MIL/check engine light and/or an illuminated
vehicle stability control light. They may also comment about driveability concerns in high ambient
temperatures with the A/C on.
Upon further diagnosis, a technician may find DTC P0607 and/or P0138.
Cause
This condition may be caused by water leaking from the evaporator onto the electrical connector in
the center IP area. The evaporator drain may be restricted, causing water to drip from the
evaporator case onto the post HO2S connector. This creates a path for current to flow from the
heater circuit to the HO2S signal circuit. There may not be carpet wet from this leak, only the
connector.
Correction
Note: The drainage from the HVAC case may not be extensive enough to cause wet carpet or
other damage.
1. Remove the side IP panel then move the carpet back to gain access to the HO2S
connector.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... FNodGlMOHM
2. Locate the HO2S connector. Clean the connector with compressed air and apply a
small amount of silicone grease to the connector.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... GhMaS0yY0U
3. Locate the HVAC core box. Inspect for moisture in that area. If moisture is present, it's
possible that a plugged evaporator drain tube may be the issue.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... W5VNHZORTA
4. Install the carpet back and reattach the IP side panel.
5. Inspect for a plugged evaporator drain tube. Force compressed air up the drain hose to
remove excess water. Drain until a steady flow is achieved and the blockage is cleared.
6. Test drive the vehicle then inspect the evaporator drain tube to verify if it is operating
correctly.

vibenvy · Post by **vibenvy** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:04 am

OwenMeany wrote:Well I have not had a recurrence of the P0607 or the P0138 code for a couple of weeks now (and it has only happened twice in the last year). Per the service bulletin this issue appears to be linked to hot ambient conditions so I decided to follow the instructions in the service bulletin anyway to check for moisture in and around the HO2S connector on a hot humid day with the A/C running. Well, I did not detect any moisture below the evaporator and actually could not find the HO2S connector in the area where the bulletin said it should be (maybe because I have a manual trans?? dunno). I guess I will need to find the HO2S connector in my car to see if there is any water in it but have yet to do so. The symptoms I am experiencing are exactly as described in the bulletin so at least it has me pointed in the right direction. Here is a full version of the bulletin (The HO2S connector in question is supposed to be directly behind the side IP panel which is the trim panel directly to the right of the gas pedal):

#10-06-04-010: Intermittent MIL/Check Engine Light
On, DTCs P0607 and/or P0138, Vehicle Stability Control
Lamp On, Driveability Concerns in High Ambient
Temperatures with A/C On (Clean HO2S Connector and
Inspect...) - (Jul 22, 2010)
Condition
Some customers may comment on an intermittent MIL/check engine light and/or an illuminated
vehicle stability control light. They may also comment about driveability concerns in high ambient
temperatures with the A/C on.
Upon further diagnosis, a technician may find DTC P0607 and/or P0138.
Cause
This condition may be caused by water leaking from the evaporator onto the electrical connector in
the center IP area. The evaporator drain may be restricted, causing water to drip from the
evaporator case onto the post HO2S connector. This creates a path for current to flow from the
heater circuit to the HO2S signal circuit. There may not be carpet wet from this leak, only the
connector.
Correction
Note: The drainage from the HVAC case may not be extensive enough to cause wet carpet or
other damage.
1. Remove the side IP panel then move the carpet back to gain access to the HO2S
connector.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... FNodGlMOHM
2. Locate the HO2S connector. Clean the connector with compressed air and apply a
small amount of silicone grease to the connector.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... GhMaS0yY0U
3. Locate the HVAC core box. Inspect for moisture in that area. If moisture is present, it's
possible that a plugged evaporator drain tube may be the issue.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... W5VNHZORTA
4. Install the carpet back and reattach the IP side panel.
5. Inspect for a plugged evaporator drain tube. Force compressed air up the drain hose to
remove excess water. Drain until a steady flow is achieved and the blockage is cleared.
6. Test drive the vehicle then inspect the evaporator drain tube to verify if it is operating
correctly.

This definitely is not what I have experienced with my 2009 GT as I never use the A/C, even when it's really hot out and the codes I have had do no match those listed in the TSB. Great info nonetheless. Thanks for posting it

!

OwenMeany · Post by **OwenMeany** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:47 am

My P0607 and P0138 codes have become a regular annoyance as of late (once a week the vehicle sets the codes). Well I got past the confusion I described in my previous post. It seems that the TSB only applied to AWD versions of the Vibe (although it did not state that). In the AWD the post-cat HO2S wires routes into the passenger compartment where they connect into another wiring harness and hence the issues with water intrusion into the connector if the evaporator drain tube clogs.

In any case since the symptoms were so similar for my FWD I located the connector for post-cat the HO2S. The connector for the FWD is located outside the passenger compartment very close to the HO2S (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2PjrD ... kNUVVFydGs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I disconnected the connector and blew it out with compressed air (although it did not appear to have been compromised with moisture) and applied silicone grease to the seal and to the terminals and reconnected it. I have not had a recurrence in a couple of weeks and will keep people posted. Hope this means the end of my P0607 and P0138 codes.......

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:58 am

Yeah, thanks for the post!
But on my side, it's not A/C related. It always/mostly happens when I leave in the morning, after a night of rain, or if it rains a lot during the day when my car is parked at work and I leave after work.

My codes are indeed P0607 (Control Module) and P0138 (O2 Sensor).

I am sure it is moisture related, but it's definitively not A/C related. I use the A/C a lot when it's hot, and I never have problems when it's hot and sunny. And to add to this, when it's sunny and hot, the problem goes away (water/moisture evaporating away).

I will have my cousin raise the car on a lift and see what could be done with the O2 sensor (the code refers to sensor 2 on bank 1... so it should be the sensor that is NOT under the hood, but most likely the one later on the exhaust line).
My cousin explained to me that if moisture gets into the connector and makes a short circuit, the sensor will report a bad reading, mismatching the data in the computer, and it will report an error, and some cars might stutter/rough idle.

So I will see if grease or anything similar can be added near the connection of the O2 sensor, making sure no moisture can enter the connector, trying to isolate the problem.

If I want to test things out, now would be the time because during winter, I never/mostly don't see the problem occuring, even if I drive in large amount of snow (melting snow should create moisture though..?...).

Fall will be a great time to see if greased O2 connectors work.

I'll post back later with news.

OwenMeany · Post by **OwenMeany** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:21 am

Well it has been close to 2 months and I have not had the P0607 and P0138 re-occur. Not sure if the "fix" I described in my last made the difference or not but in any case it did not cost me anything so I'm just happy to be code free.

alex_nrv · Post by **alex_nrv** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:32 am

I was looking at the "small" diagram that you posted in your previous post. The "post-cat H2OS" that you grased is the "#7" one? NOT the one in the blue square, right?

Because like I reported from my codes, the H2OS error was about the "sensor 2, bank 1". Sensor 2 should be the one that is NOT in the engine compartment.
So I might just unplug my sensor too, clean it and try to isolate it from moisture.

dvgb173 · Post by **dvgb173** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:05 am

My 09 GT is doing this now. Yesterday we had a halacious hail storm. Still have spots of accumulated hail on the ground outside of Albany ,NY. Had this happen last year. Dealer replaced a speed sensor in left rear hub. Bringing it in tomorrow . Weird.

dvgb173 · Post by **dvgb173** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:18 am

All lights out this morning! (removed)! Canceling dealer visit. Will monitor for a week.

Scwmcan · Post by **Scwmcan** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:33 am

On my 09 matrix I have had the light come on and flashing when the car has been sitting for a couple of days in hot weather, each time I have removed the gas cap and reinstalled it, and then started the car four times and the light went out.

BurnOnyx08 · Post by **BurnOnyx08** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:32 pm

My '09 currently has the VSC light flashing, ABS, E-Brake and Traction Control lights on. The garage I bought the car from told me it is due to a bad sensor in the right rear wheel bearing. They say once the part is replaced the lights will go off.

justoffthecoast · Post by **justoffthecoast** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:38 am

I'm having a similar issue with my 2009 FWD w/ 2.4 liter engine...P0138 and P0607 thrown intermittently after several days of steady rain along with a solid orange traction control light and blinking "VSC Off" (pretty sure the traction control / VSC lights are standard when the CEL light is on). Has happened twice in the past two weeks and turned off by itself the first time once the rain dried up (still pretty wet today so waiting to see if it shuts off later in the week when the forecast shows it drying up). Temperature hasn't been warm enough to run A/C (40-50F on average), so it shouldn't be related to that, but I suspect that the moisture may be a culprit.

AutoZone / Advance Auto Parts reps have suggested replacing the O2 sensor identified by the P0138 code (Bank 1 Sensor 2) as a starting point since the ECM would be a significantly more expensive replacement, and it sounds like these cars are wired in a way that can cause one issue to throw multiple codes that may or may not truly be the cause of the CEL (thanks, GM).

Aside from the lights, I haven't experienced any symptoms of a bad O2 sensor (lower than normal fuel economy, rough idle / ride), so I'm hesitant to start throwing money at parts if the light turns off again soon as I suspect it will. May try the correction recommended in the TSB and cleaning the MAF/IAF as suggested further up in this thread if I get a chance this weekend.

kittyhawk71 · Post by **kittyhawk71** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:46 pm

BurnOnyx08 wrote:My '09 currently has the VSC light flashing, ABS, E-Brake and Traction Control lights on. The garage I bought the car from told me it is due to a bad sensor in the right rear wheel bearing. They say once the part is replaced the lights will go off.

My 09 1.8 auto has exact thing. Took it in today and they ordered hub for rear right wheel as well.

mbratch · Post by **mbratch** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:33 pm

My 2009 Pontiac Vib, at just over 50K miles, contracted this problem where VSC OFF flashes, and BRAKE, traction warning, and ABS are all steady on. I let it go for a couple of weeks to make sure it wasn't something silly like the gas cap not on tight. I also tried resetting the electronics (unplugging the battery for over 30 mins). The problem persists so I took it to the dealer today. The dealer service told me I need a new sensor and a new harness (says the codes indicate both are shorted). Over 800 bucks... OUCH!

Rayven01 · Post by **Rayven01** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:14 pm

My 01 Olds Intrigue that I traded in for the Vibe had that problem as well (among others), with the same diagnosis, bad wheel speed sensor.

mbratch · Post by **mbratch** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:07 am

Can the sensor and/or the harness be user replaced at a significant cost savings, or no? My dealer told me the sensor alone is over 500 bucks so I'm thinking perhaps not...

Rayven01 · Post by **Rayven01** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:12 am

mbratch wrote:Can the sensor and/or the harness be user replaced at a significant cost savings, or no? My dealer told me the sensor alone is over 500 bucks so I'm thinking perhaps not...

That seems high, list price online (which is usually close to what Dealers charge) is $250 per sensor... Here they are at GMPartsCenter.net for $155 apiece. Maybe your quote includes labor? Still seems high at typical labor rates unless it's significantly harder than it sounds.

Edit: Took a look at the repair manual. If it's a front speed sensor it's an easy 15 minute job (don't even have to remove the wheel). If it's a rear speed sensor, it's a royal PITA. You have to loosen the parking brake cable, remove the wheel, brake caliper, brake disc and hub just to get at the sensor, put the hub in a vise to drive out pins holding the sensor in place. And if you drop anything it's FUBAR. I personally wouldn't want to tackle it.

mbratch · Post by **mbratch** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:42 am

Rayven01 wrote: That seems high, list price online (which is usually close to what Dealers charge) is $250 per sensor... Here they are at GMPartsCenter.net for $155 apiece. Maybe your quote includes labor? Still seems high at typical labor rates unless it's significantly harder than it sounds.

Thanks for the response! The dealer specifically said that it was over $500 for the parts only, then labor. The total job was over $800 (includes replacing the harness, which was also noted as shorted according to the codes they said they read). They also said they checked aftermarket prices and everything was over $500.

Edit: Took a look at the repair manual. If it's a front speed sensor it's an easy 15 minute job (don't even have to remove the wheel). If it's a rear speed sensor, it's a royal PITA. You have to loosen the parking brake cable, remove the wheel, brake caliper, brake disc and hub just to get at the sensor, put the hub in a vise to drive out pins holding the sensor in place. And if you drop anything it's FUBAR. I personally wouldn't want to tackle it.

Where can I get a repair manual? It's a rear speed sensor, according to the dealer. So looks like I might be stuck. But if I have documentation showing that a rear speed sensor is a lot less than $500, then that could be of use to me.

Does the rear speed sensor only exist on the AWD model? If so, then either the dealer misspoke, or I misunderstood. Mine is only FWD (2009 Pontiac Vibe).

Rayven01 · Post by **Rayven01** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:46 am

The Vibe repair manual can be had from http://www.helminc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for $200, or do what I did and subscribe to techinfo.toyota.com for a couple days for $15 and print off the matrix repair manual to PDF. Time consuming to save hundreds of PDFs one by one but I had the time to spare and didn't have $200 to spare.

Rear speed sensor exists on both.

mbratch · Post by **mbratch** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:51 am

Rayven01 wrote:The Vibe repair manual can be had from http://www.helminc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for $200, or do what I did and subscribe to techinfo.toyota.com for a couple days for $15 and print off the matrix repair manual to PDF. Time consuming to save hundreds of PDFs one by one but I had the time to spare and didn't have $200 to spare.

Rear speed sensor exists on both.

Great, thanks. The link you gave only associated the rear speed sensor with AWD, so I wondered. I also did a search on JC Whitney and they only showed one "standard sensor". It's a bit confusing...

Rayven01 · Post by **Rayven01** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:00 am

Oh I see what you mean, I didn't notice the rear speed sensors listed were AWD only. That's weird, the repair manual doesn't specify that there are different parts for 2WD/AWD. There's different directions for removing the hub but once you have the hub off the directions for the sensor removal/installation are the same. Perhaps the dealer is quoting you the cost for an entire new hub/bearing which would include the speed sensor. That lists for about $500. It totally wouldn't surprise me because removing and installing the rear speed sensor involves a vise and a couple of special punches.

mbratch · Post by **mbratch** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:08 am

OK that makes sense. If you went to dealer service for a new pair of socks, they'd also sell you a new pair of shoes because the shoes have to be replaced to get to the socks.

I think I'll go back and ask them specifically what they're quoting on changing.

Thanks for all the help!

johnnymac3169 · Post by **johnnymac3169** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:11 am

Hello....

I had the same problem on my 09 GT. The pins and plug had corrosion on them. I put toilet bowl cleaner on a cue tip and applied to both...I let set for a few minutes then sprayed water to clean out along with blowing out with air. I then applied die electric to protect from possibly happening again.... I drove down the steeet, the lights went out and everything works perfect.... The shop I took it to wanted $1014.00 to fix it......I fixed it for free...... didn't even have to take the wheels off...... This worked for me.....I hope it works for you. Good Luck......