Steering wheel shake at 60mph

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Kamikaze
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Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by Kamikaze »

Ok, of course I did a search and saw some old threads but wanted to start a new one, as I don't think it's the same issue....Just as the title says... at about 60mph I start to get a shake in the steering wheel. doesn't matter the road, sometimes it comes and goes, and usually it get's a little worse around 70mph...I work at a shop and have a tire balancer at my disposal, I have re-balanced my tires 3 times, rotated my tires, and even pulled the 18's and put my 17's with brand new rubber (and balanced) on and still have the shake (again comes and goes) I am pretty confident in saying this is not with a balancing issue on my wheels, I have exhausted all options regarding balance....Car has 37k miles on it, never hit a curb, no accidents and this problem just seemed to start in the last couple of weeks.Has anyone had a similar issue? I have some idea's but they are with the drive axels, & Ti-Rods and really don't want to go that route if that's not it
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ou.grizzly
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Post by ou.grizzly »

Need to find yourself a Hunter Machine:http://www.sandyblogs.com/tech....htmlThink this would take care of the issue... By the way, are you running your OEM Alum Rums or Aftermarket?
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lovemyraffe
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Post by lovemyraffe »

Weird cuz I recently started to have a similar issue. First thought was balancing, but you have sufficiently cover that so I have no idea but am very curious to find out what the problem and solution is.
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Kamikaze
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Re: (ou.grizzly)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »Need to find yourself a Hunter Machine:http://www.sandyblogs.com/tech....htmlThink this would take care of the issue... By the way, are you running your OEM Alum Rums or Aftermarket? I ran my OEM Alum 17's and the AM 18's with no difference (I did notice the shake a little more with the 18's but I'm positive that it is not to do with the balance)Yeah, the Hunter Machine in the link is just a hair nicer than the one we have. No computer control on our balancer, but it is still pretty accurate.Quote, originally posted by lovemyraffe »Weird cuz I recently started to have a similar issue. First thought was balancing, but you have sufficiently cover that so I have no idea but am very curious to find out what the problem and solution is.Have you looked into your issue at all? just curious because I would say it's a balance issue unless you've beaten it to death like I have. (no Not beaten Death (name of your car) to Death )If no one else has suggestions my next round is to test pulling out of gear at 70mph and see if the shake is there from 70 down to 60, if it goes away then I might have narrowed it down to a drive axel, if it's still there I'm thinking Ti-rod which will be the next thing I will check by putting it up on the hoist probably this weekend... will let you know what I find out.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (Kamikaze)

Post by joatmon »

I'd say wheel balance, or perhaps a tire out of round, but it sounds like you've done enough swapping to effectively rule that out. If it was the engine, it would happen at a particular rpm, not speed. If it was a wheel bearing you'd hear it. If it was the tranny, putting it neutral would rule out most of it. I guess it could be an axle (or CV) Does the vibration vary when you are accelerating vs engine braking? How about if you apply light pressure to the brakes while hitting the gas enough to hold the speed in the shake range? How about the unexpected. Anything loose underneath that might start shaking like crazy when hit with a 60 mph wind?
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by lovemyraffe »

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »Have you looked into your issue at all? just curious because I would say it's a balance issue unless you've beaten it to death like I have. (no Not beaten Death (name of your car) to Death )I have had my wheels balanced twice, but mine is very subtle too. Hmmm...
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Post by star_deceiver »

Try a wheel alignment!
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Re: (star_deceiver)

Post by Kamikaze »

Well, I tested pulling out of gear and letting it coast to see if the shake is still there, it is which tells me most likely the issue isn't with a drive axel.Next I will put it up on the hoist and check over the front end, I think an alignment is my next thing if nothing glaring appears when I get it up in the air.Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »Try a wheel alignment! Yep, that's pretty much next on the list, I just didn't want to blow $60-$70 on an alignment if that's not whats needed.Usually alignment issues would have to do with wear problems on the tires, a shake not so much, unless you have wear problems with the tires. Being a tire guy I check the tread depth very often in multiple places on the tires to make sure they are all wearing evenly (which they are) I'm not ruling this idea out, I'm just going to look at everything else before I pull the trigger and start dumping money into something that I don't know will truly fix the issue.
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Kamikaze
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »If it was the engine, it would happen at a particular rpm, not speed. If it was a wheel bearing you'd hear it. If it was the tranny, putting it neutral would rule out most of it. I guess it could be an axle (or CV) Does the vibration vary when you are accelerating vs engine braking? How about if you apply light pressure to the brakes while hitting the gas enough to hold the speed in the shake range? How about the unexpected. Anything loose underneath that might start shaking like crazy when hit with a 60 mph wind? Good stuff here, pulling out of gear made no difference, same as applying the brakes or accelerating, and pulling out of overdrive and letting it engine brake. Anything loose? that's my next step, I'll be checking sway bar/ control arm / suspension / ti-rod etc etc when I get it up in the air tomorrow night. if everything is tight and no play in ball joints then that leads me to my next thing which will be an alignment. I wish we had a 4 wheel alignment machine, but our shop isn't big enough to do this, so looks like I'm going to have to pay
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by joatmon »

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »Well, I tested pulling out of gear and letting it coast to see if the shake is still there, it is which tells me most likely the issue isn't with a drive axel.Putting it in neutral takes the torque off the axle but the axle still spins at the same rate as the wheel. Not sure how you'd check the axle, other than finding a way to watch it at 60 mph. No idea how likely axle balance problems are. When I've had my front wheels jacked up and ran the engine in gear I thought the axles moved about more than I expected them to but I haven't had a speed related shake like yours. Maybe you can find a dyno shop somewhere run it in place at shake speed and stand next to it looking to see what's moving. Or don't drive 60
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Re: (joatmon)

Post by Kamikaze »

I'm beginning to think the shake is there at lower speeds but just not as noticeable, I'm really leaning towards an alignment or ti-rod issue, and hopefully will know a little more tonight. The plan will be to check the ball joints, and make sure everything is tight and in place when I get it up in the air. if all goes well here... then I'll get an alignment.I just really hope that if I don't find anything that the alignment takes care of it because I really hate throwing money away... if everything 0's out on the alignment hopefully they won't charge me... I'll see if I can just get it checked without actually getting it "fixed"oh, and she's looking kind of funny with the 17's up front and the 18's out back... I'd post a pic but didn't take one...
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Post by Wolfman213 »

This is a complete shot in the dark based on an issue with another car I've dealt with, but could it be a motor or trans mount prematurely going bad?
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by joatmon »

another one, something I am sure you know much more about than I do since I'm just running the stock steelies in humble fashion. Some of these aftermarket wheels seem to need "hub centric rings" to make sure the wheels are exactly centered on the hubs. Could it be related to that? I guess when you need them and don't have them, you can have a perfectly round and balanced wheel mounted slightly off center, would behave like an unbalanced wheel or out of round tire.
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Re: (joatmon)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by Wolfman213 »This is a complete shot in the dark based on an issue with another car I've dealt with, but could it be a motor or trans mount prematurely going bad?Probably not the case, but I won't rule it out, when she's up in the air I'll make sure I check these as well...Quote, originally posted by joatmon »"hub centric rings" to make sure the wheels are exactly centered on the hubs. Could it be related to that?I thought of this as well, but the wheels are hub centric, and even if they weren't my factory wheels still produce the same shake.
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by Whelan »

I'm still down with the alignment and also finding a Hunter. The Hunter 6000 and newer 9000 machines use lasers and are incredibly accurate.
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Post by rob454 »

If you get an alignment, it would rule most suspension parts out of the equation. If there is any slight play, shops usually won't complete the wheel alignment. I would take it to a picky shop.
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Re: (rob454)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by rob454 »If you get an alignment, it would rule most suspension parts out of the equation. If there is any slight play, shops usually won't complete the wheel alignment. I would take it to a picky shop. We got 2 places we bring our cars when they need alignments since we don't do them at our shop, I'll probably just roll over there wearing my work clothes and see if they'll just throw it up on the machine for me to see if there are any alignment issues. (again after I check what I can tonight)I'll keep you posted on what I find out.
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rob454
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Post by rob454 »

When I bought my Vibe, I had the same shake aroud 60mph, it got worse at 65 and stopped at 70mph. I just took it to get the tires balanced and lined up. (They use hunter machines) and no more shake! But the car still does pull to the right a bit still. Anyone have that issue?
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Re: (rob454)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by rob454 »When I bought my Vibe, I had the same shake aroud 60mph, it got worse at 65 and stopped at 70mph. I just took it to get the tires balanced and lined up. (They use hunter machines) and no more shake! But the car still does pull to the right a bit still. Anyone have that issue?Did they do an alignment? or just the wheel balance? A pull usually is due to alignment, shake usually a balance issue or worn parts (ti-rod, ball joint etc...)Just a FYI, I took my vibe to a shop to have the alignment looked at, my toe is off (so is my camber a little) I don't want that shop to do the alignment, so now I get to play the which alignment shop do I bring it to... my #1 issue, making sure whoever it is can get the car on the rack without destroying my side skirts and front end. I'm still opitmistic that it's due to alignment, but I hope that's all it is.
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by Whelan »

Personally I don't see any issue with a Midas as long as they are reputabe. My guy has been around for years. Also check with the dealer cause if you go to them you are sure they can guarantee the work so if an issue is still present you won't get re-charged for the fix. I did an alignment at the Toyota dealer once, brought it back a week later and they re-balanced and re-aligned, no charge, problem solved.
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Post by ramenboy... »

hey kamikazedid you ever get your steering wheel shake resolved?
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Re: (ramenboy...)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by ramenboy... »hey kamikazedid you ever get your steering wheel shake resolved?Not yet, I still have to take it to an alignment shop, I work all weekend and pretty much all week this week and next week, I have the 11th of Sept off, and I might have it done on that day, then I can test it the following day when I roll down to the cities for the Vibe meet... it's not super bad, and I ride my bike pretty much everyday so the vibe just sits in the garage so I haven't been in too much hurry to get it fixed.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (Kamikaze)

Post by ToolGuy »

Have your ball joints checked...
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (ToolGuy)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by ToolGuy »Have your ball joints checked...Done.I put it up on the hoist and checked everything including the ball joints, just in case I missed something I had another mechanic check and they couldn't find anything wrong either... Still leaning on alignment, but haven't gotten it done yet, maybe next week.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (Kamikaze)

Post by LMK9232 »

Kamikaze...... I'm having the same steering wheel shake. It's still there after balancing and rebalancing tires at another shop . Even got new tires. How many miles on your Vibe ? I've got 96,000 but a quick check on the wheel bearings and tie rods found no play. Did you fix your shake and what was the cause?
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (LMK9232)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by LMK9232 »Kamikaze...... I'm having the same steering wheel shake. It's still there after balancing and rebalancing tires at another shop . Even got new tires. How many miles on your Vibe ? I've got 96,000 but a quick check on the wheel bearings and tie rods found no play. Did you fix your shake and what was the cause? I still have the shake, 37,000 miles, I'm thinking it's alignment but i lost my full time job, so I haven't really had the funds to do an alignment. Since the shake is only at hwy speeds and the tires have been wearing pretty much even so it will probably be a while before I have it done.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (Kamikaze)

Post by tubergonz »

I'm new to the forum after buying a 2003 Vibe GT and I have the same problem. I can't help but to wonder if the wheel might be out of round or the hub/stud plate isn't exactly perpendicular to the outside edges. I think a "tire balancer" can get a tire/wheel combo "balanced" even if it's not actually straight. I was thinking of raising the front end up and spinning the tires with a piece of chalk attached to a fixed but moveable object to slowly move it closer to the bead as I spun the wheel.Thoughts?
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (tubergonz)

Post by Kamikaze »

Thomas (tubergonz),If the wheels where balanced with a spin balancer then they probably watched the wheel to make sure there was no hop in the wheel.Chances of a hub being out of round is pretty unlikely. I would think if this was the case you would have the problems at low speeds and as the speeds increased it would be SOOO BAD that you wouldn't be able to take it to higher speeds. I can tell you from experience that in the winter if I get a build up of snow on my wheel the car shakes so violently that you don't dare go any faster, and ultimately you need to remove the snow from the inside of the tire before trying to go any faster (yeah you being in TX probably don't have that problem)My first suggestion after wheel balance being checked (and possibly checked again) would be to take it to a shop that can throw it on an alignment rack and tell you if it's off. I can tell you my camber is off, and my toe is off quite a bit. and I'm pretty positive that this is my problem. As stated before, funds are a little tight so I haven't been able to persue this, but I'm about 80% sure that an alignment is going to fix my issue.
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Post by DrunkenMonster »

I have the same problem with my 18's and we came to the conclusion that the wheels are bent so we just but the worse ones on the back and deal with it.
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Re: (DrunkenDixie)

Post by Kamikaze »

had my alignment finally done today, the shake is a lot better than what it was, but it's still in the steering wheel. Next stop, putting the 17's back on to see if it gets any worse or better after the alignment. Next stop will probably be drive axels, which I REALLY don't want to replace. I had 120,000 miles on my civic before having to replace them, and that was because the boot was ripped. 38,000 on the vibe and a problem starts to happen with the drive axels? doesn't sound right to me, but it's the next step in the right direction.
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Post by 04BlkVibe »

Kamikaze: I had the same problem on my vibe for the longest time. Finally changed the rotors and it turned out to be the rotors. No...my rotors weren't warped (i.e. steering didn't shake when i brake). What it was is that my rotors was rusted to the hub. So..when i change my rotors, the problem went away!!! Hope that helps.
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Re: (04BlkVibe)

Post by Kamikaze »

thanks for the info, I'll look into this before the drive axels... will let you know what i find out... won't be for a while though.
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Re: (Kamikaze)

Post by Kamikaze »

I pulled my rotors today, cleaned them up (weren't in bad shape) and put my winter wheels on. (rebalanced them yet again, before putting them on) and the shake isn't as bad, so with an alignment, balance, and cleaning up the rotors I'm minimized my shake, but it's still there just a little bit. (unless it's now just me thinking it's still there)
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Post by Digger »

I had a shake in mine. It went away after getting new tires.
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Post by cousinjerry »

Same problem here and new tires did it for me as well.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (LMK9232)

Post by singhsarabjit »

Kamikaze,I'm having the same steering wheel shake. It's still there after balancing and rebalancing tires at another shop . Did you fix your shake and what was the cause? ThanksJeet
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (singhsarabjit)

Post by Kamikaze »

It's pretty much gone, I think the 2 things that helped the most where the alignment (strange but true) and cleaning up where the rotors contact the hub. Reason I say strange but true is because 90% of the time a shake is not alignment related but rotational related (tire, wheel, rotor, drive axel, etc.)I'm thinking of test driving another 03-08 vibe on the same roads to see if they have the same characteristics or if I still have an issue.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (Kamikaze)

Post by ehoff121 »

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »It's pretty much gone, I think the 2 things that helped the most where the alignment (strange but true) and cleaning up where the rotors contact the hub.Having the same issues as you described in this old thread.Had rotors replaced and tires rotated & rebalanced 1,000 miles ago (have 65k miles now) and still get the shake at 60+ mph. I'll go get the alignment done this weekend.How do you clean the hub? Wire brush? Brake cleaner?TIA.
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mass04
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Post by mass04 »

I dont know off the bat which rims you guys are running, but I just got an 09 Vibe and the 17's do not have an outer lip on the rim. This means that tire balancing is not as easy compared to a steel rim or a rim with an inner and outer lip. I have a very slight shudder at 60-65 I will be re-balancing this week (I have access to a nice Hunter machine and changed tires in my younger days). Im willing to bet that someone static balanced the tires when they need a dynamic balance with stick on weights on the inside of the rim and a clamp on weight on the inner lip. This is just a suggestion; there are alot of ways to balance a tire on the new machines.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph (ehoff121)

Post by Kamikaze »

Quote, originally posted by ehoff121 »Having the same issues as you described in this old thread.Had rotors replaced and tires rotated & rebalanced 1,000 miles ago (have 65k miles now) and still get the shake at 60+ mph. I'll go get the alignment done this weekend.How do you clean the hub? Wire brush? Brake cleaner?TIA. I'm so sorry I didn't see this any sooner....I used sandpaper, but a wire brush would work, and then some brake cleaner wouldn't be a bad idea when all done to make sure it's nice and clean, I think I just used compressed air.Quote, originally posted by mass04 »I dont know off the bat which rims you guys are running, but I just got an 09 Vibe and the 17's do not have an outer lip on the rim. This means that tire balancing is not as easy compared to a steel rim or a rim with an inner and outer lip. I have a very slight shudder at 60-65 I will be re-balancing this week (I have access to a nice Hunter machine and changed tires in my younger days). Im willing to bet that someone static balanced the tires when they need a dynamic balance with stick on weights on the inside of the rim and a clamp on weight on the inner lip. This is just a suggestion; there are alot of ways to balance a tire on the new machines.I have the 17" factory wheels, and I had 18" aftermarket wheels.I personally rebalanced my wheels a few times, and until I cleaned up the hub/rotor and alignment the shake was still there.
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Re: (mass04)

Post by ehoff121 »

Quote, originally posted by mass04 »I dont know off the bat which rims you guys are running Stock 16" alloys on 2005 AWDQuote, originally posted by mass04 »I'm willing to bet that someone static balanced the tires when they need a dynamic balance with stick on weights on the inside of the rim and a clamp on weight on the inner lip. This is just a suggestion; there are alot of ways to balance a tire on the new machines.Was under the car last weekend and saw clamped weights on the inside of the rims, nothing outside. Some wheels had stick on weights in the rim. Was unable to get the alignment done, though.Thanks for the help, guys!
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by Derf »

Exact same issue, 55mph things are fine, go to 60mph + shake occurs, peaks around 68mph. Noticed about two months ago, but thought it was the snow, slop, heaving roads, etc. Due to Snowmagedon, did not put many miles on this winter. Put the new steelies with new Michelin X ICE 3 on in November did not notice any issues until Feb, but that may have been the first time taking the wheels over 60 going down the interstate at 70Mph. Went to tire shop today, had tires checked, balancing great, wear even, hubs and hardware great, commented on how well tires were balanced. Said checked front no play on right side, possibly something on the left side, but so minor hard to tell if it was anything out of the ordinary.

Going to check everything over real good while putting the summer wheels on. Did not notice anything in November, but with Snowmagedon and and plenty of potholes, anything is possible. Checking if anyone found something not listed above. The only additional thought, some tires do weird things depending on temperature, but this issue has occurred at 15*F up to 60*F Also, others having the exact same issue with different model tires, I would go with a rotational mass issue specific to the Vibe, rotor hub, drive axle. Seems like this problem can slowly drive someone insane speculating the possible causes.

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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by gtv237 »

I dont think an alignment would cause these issues. Unless its really bad and you can see major camber or toe issues from outside the car. Tie rod ends sometimes cause wobble when they're really bad but that is always accompanied by front end knocking. You could also feel to see if the tie rod ends are loose by trying to shake the front wheels side to side while the car is jacked up. The wheel should be very tight. If you feel any play, you have something wrong.

Steering wheel shake and vibration is a common symptom of a bad CV axle. Most of the time you can tell by looking around the cv boot. If there is ANY oily residue, you have a leaking boot. Even if the boot feels tight. And sometimes the CV goes bad even if it's not leaking any grease.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by lannvouivre »

I've had this issue with this before due to lateral runout on the rotors. It went away when I had them turned, then came back because the replacement rotors (which had been turned) were bought when I was low on cash, so they were cheap and crappy. Lots of things can cause this issue, but if you can check the runout for super-cheap, this may be one of the things I'd investigate first if nothing else had glaringly obvious issues, or if I'd checked everything else that's easy.
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gtv237
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by gtv237 »

lannvouivre wrote:I've had this issue with this before due to lateral runout on the rotors. It went away when I had them turned, then came back because the replacement rotors (which had been turned) were bought when I was low on cash, so they were cheap and crappy. Lots of things can cause this issue, but if you can check the runout for super-cheap, this may be one of the things I'd investigate first if nothing else had glaringly obvious issues, or if I'd checked everything else that's easy.
Warped rotors can certainly cause hellish vibration but only when you apply the brakes.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by Derf »

Checked the CV shafts, no wear, leaks, or damage. Checked rotors, nothing common tools were able to detect, but did clean the accumulated rust from the rotor vanes. Now with about 500 miles back on the summer tires, found the issue occurs more on concrete roadways than asphalt. Seems to be a combination of something in the car and a harmonic from driving over the concrete roadway sections. Going to drive it a bit more so see if anything sticks out, otherwise off to the shop where they can use their precision tools to hone in on the possible cause.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by lannvouivre »

gtv237 wrote:Warped rotors can certainly cause hellish vibration but only when you apply the brakes.
Mine had a S. wheel shake at 65-75 mph without brakes, then would shake the wheel way harder when braking.
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gtv237
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by gtv237 »

lannvouivre wrote:
gtv237 wrote:Warped rotors can certainly cause hellish vibration but only when you apply the brakes.
Mine had a S. wheel shake at 65-75 mph without brakes, then would shake the wheel way harder when braking.
Then you had other problems as well. The pads could have been stuck in the perches or the slides could have been frozen, or maybe even a sticky caliper.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by lannvouivre »

gtv237 wrote:Then you had other problems as well. The pads could have been stuck in the perches or the slides could have been frozen, or maybe even a sticky caliper.
Well, it was a long time ago, but I do remember the sliding pins were tacky last time I did my brakes. I replaced the caliper piston seals recently and everything inside looked fantastic and worked smoothly. I guess it's possible something else we did at the time (just cleaning things up) did it. It's hard to be sure what exactly we did because my classmates were highschool boys who worked at tire shops and so would work on my car if I walked away to get sandpaper.
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Re: Steering wheel shake at 60mph

Post by ramenboy... »

wow. gonna resurrect this thread!

ok, so the ramen vibe now has 289k miles. has been running pretty well. got the tie rods replaced at the beginning of the spring, along with new tires, so its been only a few months.

friday, i had the day off, so brought the car in for a checkup. they said i had a cracked axle shaft, so i had them replace it. wasn't cheap.

drove it to the south side to visit mama san, and noticed the steering wheel shake at 60-70mph.

mechanic suspected it needed an alignment, so i left it there yesterday (luckily its still nice enough outside to ride the motorcycle to work)

this morning on the highway, STILL exactly the same steering wheel vibration.

mechanic is committed to resolving this. he's worked on the car for a couple years, and everything's been top notch until now.

my question is, how did i not have this problem if i was driving on a cracked shaft?
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