The Battery Issue

vibe-04 · Post by **vibe-04** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:36 am

Just got mine changed here in Ottawa at the dealership -- no problem. When I talked to the service manager, he understood the 310 CCA battery wouldn't cut it in this winter and I think he knew about the problem (I also mentioned the service VME). I called GM earlier but their attitude was "you could always buy a new battery." And what, keep the old one as a door stop!What I did was describe the "exact" conditions as outlined in the service bulletin -- slow crank hard to start -- then they load tested and replaced the battery. I think a supportive dealer is what everyone needs.Thanks for all the informative posts. Keep them coming.... A

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:19 am

I got tired of fighting w/my dealer about the battery. Last winter, the car had to be jump-started twice. Took the car to the dealer after each episode, and they said nothing was wrong. They kept it overnight once, then informed me that "yeah, it started really hard, but it started."Bought a 720CCA Optima RedTop last month. Screw the dealer. I've had nothing but issues since I bought the car from them. It's rare that they have fixed anything I've taken the car in for.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:37 am

Well I'm having a battery problem, just got back from a week up in Alaska to find my car would not start, battery was COMPLETELY dead, but to top it all off it was loose, though I know it was tight when I did my oil change 2 weeks ago... I'm suspecting foul play from my room mates... cause they went through some of my stuff while I was gone but I'm pissed about that but this is not the forum for that. Anyway, battery and car are on the charger, had normal draw with the tester what I got it to the shop, will find out more later.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:07 am

aww, your damn roomies going thru your stuff and taking your things w/o permission again! makes no sense why your battery would be dead when i know they installed the newer 560 cca at the MI meet. plus it wasn't that cold last week while you were gone! hmm...... something is certainly fishy!

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:20 pm

Seems it maybe harder now to get a new battery, I was looking in the system yesterday for any updates and came across this bulletin:Warranty Admin. - Midtronics Code Generated by J-42000 or J-42000EU Battery Tester Required for Claim Processing on Labor Operation N0110 #03-06-03-004A - (Nov 10, 2004)Midtronics Code Generated By J 42000 or J 42000EU Battery Tester Required For Claim Processing On Labor Operation N01102005 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks2003-2005 HUMMER H2This bulletin is being revised to add the 2004 and 2005 model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-03-004 (Section 06 - Engine).The out-of-vehicle Midtronics code generated by the J 42000 or J 42000EU battery tester is required for claim processing on labor operation N0110, Battery-Replace. The code must be entered into the Failure Code (FC) field on the warranty claim (refer to the Claims Processing Manual, Section IV, Warranty Claim Data, page 6, Item G). This is a revision from past requirements when the test code was placed in the "comments" field.Important: Enter only the first five digits of the Midtronics code. The Failure Code field accepts up to five digits and will not accept more. â€¢ Example: The J 42000 tester generates an out-of-vehicle code of 1N1PN-RH. Enter only 1N1PN into the Failure Code field. â€¢ Example: The J 42000EU tester generates an out-of-vehicle code of 0090L-HJ-B9. Enter only 0090L into the Failure Code field. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-03-006B for diagnostic assistance and a worksheet in support of the claim. The worksheet has been designed to eliminate Trouble Not Found claims for batteries and generators. Please retain the worksheet with the repair order and enclose a copy with all Corporate Parts Return requests.eClaim UsersDealers who process their claims through eClaims will be required to include the first five digits of the Midtronics code in the DIAGNOSTIC CODE field on their eClaim submission.Special Cases â€¢ Clear hydrometer eye - If the hydrometer eye is clear, indicating a low electrolyte level in the battery cell, replace the battery per the diagnostic procedure as outlined in Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-03-006B. Enter CLEAR into the Failure Code field. â€¢ Damaged or leaking batteries - It is not necessary to test leaking batteries with the J 42000. Enter LEAKS into the Failure Code field. For batteries with side terminal stripped threads, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-04-015. â€¢ Voltage too low to activate tester - When the battery state of charge is too low to activate the J 42000, charge the battery and retest. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-03-009A. If, after recharging, the battery will not activate the J 42000 tester and diagnosis per Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-03-006B indicates a battery replacement, enter TOOLO into the Failure Code field. â€¢ Cadillac Roadside service claims - Test the battery with the J 42000 after return to the dealership. Enter the first five digits of the Midtronics code into the Failure Code field on the claim. If the battery is found to be good, enter BATTERY GOOD-ROADSIDE REPAIR in the comment section of the claim. â€¢ Customer reimbursement cases - Existing policies on customer reimbursement apply. If the customer's battery is available, enter the Midtronics code into the Failure Code field on the claim. If the customer's battery is not available, enter REIMB into the Failure Code field on the claim. â€¢ Approved GM Fleet and Commercial in-shop warranty stations- If the Midtronics code is available, enter the first five digits of the code into the Failure Code field. If the Midtronics code is not available, enter FLEET into the Failure Code field.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:25 pm

As you can read, it does not state Vibe like the first bulletin I found and was posted on page 14 or 15 of this thread. This new bulletin has an 'A' but with the same number, meaning it has been revised. Plus the above states to disregard the 03-06-04-004 bulletin.I searched and searched yesterday and could not find the first bulletin 03-06-03-004 in the system. Unless someone else can find it, this issue maybe harder to prove now.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:46 am

see the vibe battery at full strength will not give one of those fail codes they require to replace it just because its not strong enough when its very cold.GM so far has not seen it their problem to warranty a fully charged battery thats just not strong enough in the cold. keep up the fight guys but don't hold your breath...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:07 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»see the vibe battery at full strength will not give one of those fail codes they require to replace it just because its not strong enough when its very cold.GM so far has not seen it their problem to warranty a fully charged battery thats just not strong enough in the cold. keep up the fight guys but don't hold your breath...That is exaclty right and probably why they changed the bulletin...

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:49 am

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy Â»That is exaclty right and probably why they changed the bulletin... probably, so unless your battery is leaking or actually fails, OR GM decides to replace the battery, I don't know how you guys can get replacements.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:14 am

Over the last sixteen years I've bought several GM vehicles from my dealer and they've always done me right. On this Vibe battery issue, though, they wouldn't budge. I got a Sears DieHard, I'm staying with this dealership, though, because, by and large, they've done me well.Everybody is entitled to be wrong every now and then. GM is sure wrong with this one.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:10 am

Quote, originally posted by Houston Â» Everybody is entitled to be wrong every now and then. GM is sure wrong with this one.Oh definatly no argument there from me what so ever. I'm sure even the tech heads at GM agree verbally. A clown even knows under 400CAA is not good enough in the cold on anything with more then 2 cylinders.

cindi2 · Post by **cindi2** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:09 pm

I just got my Vibe monday, havent even finished the paperwork, lol. I already said something to my salesman about the battery problem you guys told me about. He said if I have a problem they will take care of it. This is a new dealer for me so I hope they will. I am a pain in the but when I think I am getting screwed (squeeky wheel). We shall see, if I have problems I will be bugging them till they can't stand it no more and give me whatever I want. Thanks to all of you for the heads up on the battery. Also, what is the exahst problem someone mentioned? (rotten eggs), is that with the 04's too? thanks, cindi

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:07 pm

If yours is a manual (standard) transmission then don't worry about it, otherwise if you have automatic transmission, some develope a problem with the pcm and catalytic converter, there is a special bulletin out on that which the dealerships have.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:44 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»If yours is a manual (standard) transmission then don't worry about it...Don't know if it's only because we are talking about this (rotten egg) smell but mine (manual) begun smelling this recently... is this caused by summer/winter gaz transition at gazbar or what? Anyway, I won't call GM 1-800, they will tell me again: Never heard about it, it's the first time we see that... so, I won't complained unless someone else tell me, it not my imagination

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:59 am

Quote, originally posted by SCTM Â»Don't know if it's only because we are talking about this (rotten egg) smell but mine (manual) begun smelling this recently... is this caused by summer/winter gaz transition at gazbar or what? Anyway, I won't call GM 1-800, they will tell me again: Never heard about it, it's the first time we see that... so, I won't complained unless someone else tell me, it not my imagination well the technical service bulletin was for automatic transmission equiped Vibes... if the Manual transmission Vibe has the same issue, its not recieved any printed investigations.

slingblade · Post by **slingblade** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:28 am

I just had my battery replaced yesterday. Grove Pontiac Buick, in Spruce Grove AB replaced it no problem. I phoned them, and they ordered it in, they used the VME to replace it. But now I noticed I have a headlight switch that is defective, my lights come on when it's cold out. Any one else have this problem?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:58 pm

I recall hearing about similar problems in the matrix...caused by a bad relay or something...

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:21 pm

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish Â»I recall hearing about similar problems in the matrix...caused by a bad relay or something...This applies to certain Vibes, too. When I took my Vibe to the dealer to see about replacing the battery (they wouldn't), they did change the headlight switch, or something related to it, because they had a TSB or whatever on it.

bckersey · Post by **bckersey** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:31 pm

I'm getting my battery replaced by the dealer on Tuesday. It would barely turn over yesterday in the cold. I'm not sure that the dealer would normally do the replacement, but my dad works there so.....

rubberman · Post by **rubberman** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:45 pm

Yesterday it was -28c and the Vibe barely started.My other car a honda civic with 580,000km fires on the first try go figure The Vibe goes in for a O&F Wed so i will scream murder at the service guy.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:24 am

I finally broke down and bought a battery today... Mine was still working, but it was turning over slooow when cold. Checked around for prices, and ended up just going to Pep Boys and bought one, slapped it in myself out in the parking lot.... Picked up a 540 cca Delco, $64. I didn't think that was too bad of a price...

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:56 pm

Once again GM won and saved few $ on customer back. Another owner forced to buy from his pocket a new battery to replace this tiny crap 310CCA and... may be I'll be next to do the same, we got -25c last morning and almost had to get my cables out and be boosted with my Suzuki Swift '98 original battery !!!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:50 pm

I'm out of factory warranty by almost 4,000 miles - currently the car is under a GM Major Guard extended warranty good until 87,000. But I didn't think it would be worth fighting with them to get a new battery under warranty, they probably wouldn't have covered it under the bumper-to-bumper, let alone the extended warranty... So I decided it was worth it to me to spend a couple bucks, fix it myself and not have to deal with any crap...

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:09 pm

well as I mentioned before... GM does not see a fully charged 310CCA battery to be defective if the car does not start well or at all in the cold. Some dealerships will be nice and just out of common sense and customer good will, do replace the battery for you. No argument from me that the 310CCA battery is pathetic in cold weather, I got chewed out by a customer yesterday cause his brand new sunfire with factory filled washerfluid froze in monday's -23C weather. Like somehow its MY fault the factory put in all season washer fluid. "They should know the car was being shipped to canada so they should just have put in winter fluid." yeah and stock winter tires and blades to... come on lets be realistic here.Same is true for the battery, I'm sure its strong enough in Califorina...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:17 pm

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»well as I mentioned before... GM does not see a fully charged 310CCA battery to be defective if the car does not start well or at all in the cold. I do see their logic behind that... Now for those who have been stranded, I would like to see them do something about those customers out of common decency.... While it isn't technically a defect of the battery, it kinda is at the same time since it can't stand up to the cold temps. As a whole, I didn't really have any problems other than slow cranking, and it always fired up on the first try. But I just didn't want to risk it, since it's worse this winter than it has been for the last.Quote Â»Some dealerships will be nice and just out of common sense and customer good will, do replace the battery for you. A freebie would have been great, but... I never bothered to bring it up to the dealer, since I knew that GM probably wouldn't allow them to replace the battery under warranty. I could have, but I felt like I would be screwing them over if they paid for the battery and not GM, and I don't like to do that for all the times they've hooked me up. I'm in there so darn much,I don't want to be a whiny customer and make enemies... Granted, they probably wouldn't have missed the money that much, but still, the principle behind the thing. I'm just too nice of a customer for my own good... lolOnce I was able to get into the car this morning (have sleet/snow/rain/freezing rain going on right now) it started up just fine with the new battery. Here's a pic of it.... Woah, look - it's a battery! hahaha

wagon lover · Post by **wagon lover** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:17 pm

"GM does not see a fully charged 310CCA battery to be defective if the car does not start well or at all in the cold."Like I said before; if the car is not suitable for its intended purpose (i.e. driven in a COLD weather climate, as much of North America is), it should not be sold here. If they want to sell it here, they should make it suitable for the climate. Otherwise, it's just a $15,000 paperweight, isn't it?As far as the washer fluid; well, shouldn't a dealership either change fluid themselves or advise the client that perhaps, given the car is prepped for California and not Canada, have changed it themselves? Oops, that would be too much like customer service.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:11 pm

Its not any dealerships responsibilty to change any fluids in a new shipped vehicle unless there is a GM documented bulletin like Optras with coolant temp to strong and not allowing the engine to warm up. Washer fluid as long as its full and if not is filled with ALL SEASON washer fluid here at the shop. What it comes with is the same stuff we put in it, Winter washer fluid is OPTIONAL, just like winter blades and tires.So no, I will provide the best customer service but you won't find me out there changing all the washer fluid in every car coming off the truck. GM battery replacement warranty REQUIRES a failure code off the battery tester. a 310CCA fully charged battery even if your car does not start will NOT give a failure code so the dealership has no proof to GM there was a fault to then get paid for doing the warranty work. GM pays us to repair your vehicle and if they won't pay us to do a repair, either the customer pays or the repair is not done in most cases and this battery issue is such a case. It may not be correct but thats how it is for now.

vibe-04 · Post by **vibe-04** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:59 am

I've got to agree Mavrik, but... If your purchased a car in summer, then winter rolls in and you didn't change the fluid, well you can't blame the dealership. If you buy a car in January, then the dealership should know.As for the battery, a smart dealership understands the problem. I explained to my dealer that a call to the GM Roadside Assistance from 2 hours north of Ottawa was going to be more costly than a replacement. They understood and did a check and I had 110 CCA on the old battery. I think they made up the results because that's really low but needed for the warranty replacement. Good dealers are hard to find... pain in the a@@ owners are a dime a dozen......A

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:16 am

oh you will get some good dealerships that will "white lie" a failer issue with the battery test but with that required failer code now its getting harder to do. Now out of all the Vibes in this area, I can honestly say NONE of them have come back yet for a poor start in the cold. My first winter with the Vibe started fine with that 310CCA battery though some mornings I worried.I hear you on the "shipped in winter" but the washer fluid shipped in the cars is all season which on the rest of the cars we get has not froze. I can only think the factory had a poor batch of washer fluid go through. the rest have been fine. But we got that customer all fixed up, dumped out the bottle, blew out the lines and refilled it with straight -40 washer fluid at no charge to him even though he has 12,000km on the car now... factory wash fluid should have been gone by then.

rubberman · Post by **rubberman** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:00 am

Went for my O&F today told the dealer about the car not starting in the cold& showed the service bullitin and they are replacing the battery.Maybe after I told them that my Honda with 580.000kms started they felt guilty.....lol.They are also fixing my passenger front seat.The dealer is Lauria in Port Hope.

bud_one · Post by **bud_one** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:36 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»I'm out of factory warranty by almost 4,000 miles - currently the car is under a GM Major Guard extended warranty good until 87,000. But I didn't think it would be worth fighting with them to get a new battery under warranty, they probably wouldn't have covered it under the bumper-to-bumper, let alone the extended warranty... So I decided it was worth it to me to spend a couple bucks, fix it myself and not have to deal with any crap... Mr. Panic - you're 100% correct - Your GMPP Major although a very goodwarranty- will not cover a battery. Battery warranty is 3year 36k miles.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:58 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»...good dealerships that will "white lie" a failer issue with the battery test but with that required failer code now its getting harder to do. There's no need for "white lie" if they read the VME the way I do (I may be wrong but...) VME says: You should first follow normal diagnostic procedures for stater and emission systems. If no codes are stored and no other concerns are noted it may be necessary to replace the ome battery with a higher cca battery.... When submitting your warranty claim please use REIMB for the failure code. This code shoud be place in the failure code field on the claim. So, there's no need to lie, dealer should write "REIMB" in the right field (if none been found on test) and that's it. No?Reading back on the first post of this tread (19 pages so far) I don't considered pain in the a@@ owner anyone complaining about this. Remember we've paid $25K for this and it should be properly builted for the region delivered. Otherwise why is there any VME or TSB issued - may be someone should ask the guy who wrote these notes...

rubberman · Post by **rubberman** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:11 am

Got my new battery today,now i can drive to work when its cold and know now it will start when go to leave.

spyder · Post by **spyder** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:30 pm

Hey folks today was an awsome day for me to own a Vibe GT. If it were not for this site I wouldn't have enough knowledge to get the proper repairs done (under warrenty I must add). I informed my dealership of the battery issue and believe it or not, they identified the Doc. ID# 1458972 and! a TSB for the battery switch to a 560cca TSB# 03-06-03-004 and! without even an argument or questioning me they orderd the cladding replacement under the revised TSB for my two tone 2003 silver vibe GT and! they replaced the cig lighter housing under TSB# 04-08-014. If that weren't enough, I mentioned the pitting and corrosion on my 16" OEM rims and they are going to take my rims and machine them and re-finish them as there is a TSB on that too but I wasn't able to ask for that one....I felt that I was getting enough out of them. Anyway, I just wanted to share my small private victory with all of you as they have shafted me in the past for my last car which was a grand prix gtp.Spyder=)

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:58 pm

TSB on the wheels is news to me...Are you sure your dealer isn't just doing it for you as a gesture?

bud_one · Post by **bud_one** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:01 am

No he's correct.... the document # 1458972 is actually a PI or a preliminaryto an actual bulletin.. meaning that GM is aware of the problem and this is a fix that might work, whitch does. It's also known as PI01711.Verified with the local Pontiac dealership, it's legit. New battery part # 19001602, has 560 cca.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:35 pm

Great for you Spyderpost. Now I wish I leave in Toronto !!!I still don't understand GM Canada, or it's just a dealer's different story depending where you bought your car. Anyway, when you'll get the job done, scan a copy of your working sheet on this forum, may be it could demonstrate to a non-cooperative DSM/dealer/GM management that this is real problem and sometimes somebody somewhere satisfies the customer as it should. Wake up GM

champcaracing · Post by **champcaracing** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:19 am

some please lock this post!!!!! 19 pages on the damn battery, yeah its a low CCA but this is out of hand. please lock this, let it fall down the list and drift away.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:17 am

I agree. Some got the better battery from the dealer and some, like me, didn't. We got tired of the runaround with the dealer and got it on our own from somebody else. This thread is way too old to still be floating around. Lets end it now.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:05 am

January 18 is a day to remember.... at least for my litlle vibe'history..My dealership had replace my battery... It was about time. After a few test (and nearly 2 hours of work) they call the GM service and they tell them to replace the battery...I'm really happy about it !I'm gonna see in the next day (week) if it's really make a difference.

POLO · Post by **POLO** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:16 am

How you convince them to replace the battery?

rubberman · Post by **rubberman** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:35 pm

The new battery works great.The last few days here have been -20 to -27c,the old ****ty battery would have never started the car.

simon · Post by **simon** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:20 pm

Did the earlier Vibes have a better battery or do the GT's have a higher compression ratio and so are harder to turn over? I've never had a problem. -30?C and it turns over a little more slowly but always starts first time. I have a 2003 Base.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:33 am

Quote, originally posted by simon Â»Did the earlier Vibes have a better battery or do the GT's have a higher compression ratio and so are harder to turn over? I've never had a problem. -30?C and it turns over a little more slowly but always starts first time. I have a 2003 Base.Take your time and read back few pages of this long long story about battery...2003-2004 original battery 310CCA only !2005 finally upgraded around 540CCA (not a big deal but better...)You'll read back, some of us got their replaced after long fight with dealer and some not (I am) yet !___Dan, just great for you my friend. With today's -28c this new battery should be helpful. ___Let this topic continues... to show GM how ridiculous this situation is.Over 14,000 views and the show is still running.Youhou GM... are you still there?

camthecanuck · Post by **camthecanuck** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:00 am

Well, I am going to my dealer to-morrow to have my battery checked. I phoned them and they indicated that they had to check it out. I also phoned GM Canada as well. Nobody comes bounding up to offer a replacement though I alluded to this site and the long list of woes. We will see what happens tomorrow. So far I haven't seen much support from this dealer other than they are good at charging full tilt for all service. I still like the Vibe but ti is not without some irritations (paint problems as well).

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:31 am

If everyone who has had a battery problem prints out this entire thread and mails it to GM Customer Service....

vibe-04 · Post by **vibe-04** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:34 pm

I mentioned this thread and all the people that had problems to GM service and they didn't care. They told me I could buy a new battery -- . You could take this thread to a dealer and with a polite but firm voice ask to get a new battery. Your front line to get a new battery is your dealer, not GM. Good luck

camthecanuck · Post by **camthecanuck** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:05 am

Just an addenda to advise that I got my new battery provided today thanks in part to the fact that I took in numerous quotes from this thread! Was supposed ti hear back from Gm Canada but haven't so far. Don't know the ins and outs yet but at least I have my battery! Thanks all.

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:37 am

guess its not locked yet...hehehehnow 20 pages!!!

slowvibe · Post by **slowvibe** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:31 am

do you ever have problems with the engine stumbling under full throttle? I've started a thread just for Gt issues if you want to post there.