whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Discuss any problems, warranty, repair, or replacement issues you are having with your Vibe & Matrix
Post Reply
gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:58 am

2005 Pontiac Vibe / 80k miles

There is a whine/buzz when starting car that seems to go away after a while. Maybe the audio quality in the video is enough to capture it -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5EzXgPPRWo -- at the 4/5 second mark is the car shifting into reverse (noise changes).

Any quick ideas? A shop did recently change the ATF fluid several weeks ago / last month but it was not a flush. I don't know if that means anything.


EDIT:
- Still happens with belt off.
- Short recording of reverse noise (at very end, sorry!): https://vocaroo.com/d9wAzXnjldP Could a bad motor mount push the engine against some metal / etc when shifting into reverse maybe? You can tell I'm a bit clueless.

EDIT 2:
- Talked to a person at a transmission shop. He said it is possibly / likely the transmission torque converter. Also,
he optimistically said that since the noise vanishes after the transmission fluid is warmed up then maybe the new fluid they used takes longer to heat up or is thinner than what was there. I may hit up the shop that did the fluid change to see exactly which kind they used out of curiosity. It was NOT a flush by the way.
Last edited by gotreats on Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

zbyers
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by zbyers » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:33 am

Aftermarket radio? LED headlights? Any modified wiring?
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW Vanagon DoKa '91 Vanagon
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:47 am

None that I am aware of.

I was worried that shifting into reverse -- if you were able to hear that noise -- indicated something more mechanical? I suppose I should go get a voltmeter and test the alternator, etc. The headlights don't change brightness or anything when I rev the car, if that means anything. I'm obviously not the /most/ car adept but getting there!

User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by vibrologist » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:22 am

I would check the belts and pulleys. Try to take the drive belt off and run it for 20 seconds without. If the noise is gone you know for sure it is related to the drive belt and anything that's driven by it. Spin the pulleys by hand and tug on them to feel for play in the bearings.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476

zbyers
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by zbyers » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:47 am

vibrologist wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:22 am
Spin the pulleys by hand and tug on them to feel for play in the bearings.
Should i spin them while the vehicle is running? :lol:

I kid, don't do that. Bad idea.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW Vanagon DoKa '91 Vanagon
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:00 pm

With the belt off it still makes the noise. Thanks for the suggestion though!

I tried to record it with my phone but forgot to check it before putting the belt back on. I do have a short clip that may better capture the noise, especially when I shift into reverse. https://vocaroo.com/d9wAzXnjldP You can hear it at the end.

User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by vibrologist » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:55 pm

It still sounds like a bad belt or pully/pully bearing to me. You could try to narrow it down using a stethoscope or piece of garden hose. One end to the ear and the other probing around the engine.
The fact that shifting into reverse makes it louder makes me scratch behind my ear. How is the tranny fluid (level and condition)? how many miles on the car?
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:23 pm

Ha, I appreciate your responses. With luck, by Monday or Tuesday I"ll know more.

The transmission fluid and level is good. I even asked a mechanic to look and make sure I wan't an idiot. When the belt was off I played around with the pulleys but couldn't find anything that stood out to me. The noise also sounds like it is coming from https://imgur.com/a/DUxpqwP (transmission / torque converter?). I tried the whole broomstick thing and against that metal piece could more distinctly hear it, but that's obviously not definitive.
  • Goes away after the car has warmed up some (I hear nothing when shifting into reverse).
  • Increases if I press the pedal.
  • MAYBE coincides with a mechanic putting in new transmission fluid?
  • The receipt shows "MV-ATF" fluid. This was a reputable shop but maybe they made a mistake (doubt it). The manual calls for T-IV but I don't know how the naming/standards have changed. This stuff (https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-Synthe ... 4FGTY?th=1) says it works with T-IV though.
  • The car has two bad motor mounts.

Jbenrod
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:58 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by Jbenrod » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:32 pm

You say "The car has two bad motor mounts."

That probably is your problem.

Which two are bad? How do you know they are bad and is there some reason you are ignoring them?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46950

User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by vibrologist » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:16 am

The car has two bad motor mounts.
That explains why it gets worse when shifting into reverse. It's that body A and body B thing from the High School Science class. The engine needs to brace itself against the car's body and it does so via the engine and transmission mounts. When these mounts are bad the engine tips over a bit more than normal and the engine vibration gets transferred to the body.

Why does it get better when the engine is warmed up? Because when the engine is cold the idle speed is increased and that makes the engine tip over a bit harder. Once the idle speed is normal the symptoms are reduced.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:09 am

I could have sworn I listed the two bad motor mounts in the original post but obviously am wrong. If that is issue -- I hope it is -- then I apologize for wasting your time going through my responses. It is likely I'll replace the mounts today and will let you know.

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:17 am

Jbenrod wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:32 pm
You say "The car has two bad motor mounts."

That probably is your problem.

Which two are bad? How do you know they are bad and is there some reason you are ignoring them?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46950
Yeah -- It was driving fine without the noise while it had the two motor mounts which is why I may have ignored that rather pertinent detai! I feel silly for not listing it early but thought I had. I'll change them, update the thread, and will welcome any shame. Sorry for what appears to be a waste of time at the moment for those reading and trying to help.

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:32 am

It's definitely the transmission. Bad luck. Who knows if the fluid put in cleaned it up a bit and revealed an issue or whatever. Two different transmissions shops told me to drive it until it dies / can't shift, etc.

zbyers
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by zbyers » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:47 am

I'd take care of those mounts before putting the transmission out to the pasture.

You could also try another drain and fill in a few weeks to see if that helps improve it.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW Vanagon DoKa '91 Vanagon
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by vibrologist » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:23 am

zbyers wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:47 am
I'd take care of those mounts before putting the transmission out to the pasture.

You could also try another drain and fill in a few weeks to see if that helps improve it.
Exactly.
Also: it still drives. You have the option to keep driving it despite of the noise it makes.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476

zbyers
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by zbyers » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:50 am

I also just realized you only have 80k miles. It's unlikely you killed a Toyota auto trans with that low of miles by a simple drain/fill. Unless it was ran out of fluid for extended periods of times, or driven very hard, i doubt the trans is dead. Many have gone well over 200k without changing their trans fluid with no issues.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW Vanagon DoKa '91 Vanagon
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:13 pm

The good news is, as you say, the car drives and shifts fine and the noise eventually goes away. One of the many shops to confirm it's an internal noise said that another fluid change is 50/50 if it would help or further hurt the car.

I'm hopeful that toyota reliabilty will win out and optimistic since the noise does go away after the car is warmed up. I'll maybe try doing a fluid change (or full flush? I don't know) with the T-IV ATF the manual calls for. I'll consider changing the mounts too. You can see the hood popping slightly while parked, etc, but another mechanic said he thought the mounts were fine.

Oh well. I think I'll buy some of the of T-IV fluid and try a change later next month.

zbyers
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by zbyers » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:21 am

I'll maybe try doing a fluid change (or full flush? I don't know) with the T-IV ATF the manual calls for. I'll consider changing the mounts too.
Just do a drain and fill. No need to do a full flush.
You can see the hood popping slightly while parked, etc, but another mechanic said he thought the mounts were fine.
The hood bump stops could need adjusted. mine has a little jiggle at idle because the bump stops are too low, causing the hood to bounce up and down a little.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW Vanagon DoKa '91 Vanagon
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

gotreats
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Re: whine/buzz when car is warming up / shifting in reverse

Post by gotreats » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:29 am

I'll look into adjusting the hood stops and update when I have done a drain/change.

Post Reply