High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

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Salsa Guy
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High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Salsa Guy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:03 pm

Been fighting a high idle issue in the 03 VGT after warmed up. It will rev as high as 3K and if I tap the pedal it will back down to 1.2k-1K. Here's what I've done.

Cleaned the IACV, and TB. Didn't help
Replaced the IACV with one from MWR. Didn't help, Also popped P0505 code occasionally.
Replaced the IACV , under warranty, had MWR rebuild a TB. Didn't Help and still will get a P0505 pending occasionally.
Cleaned the MAF and AIT. Didn't help.
Replaced 90% of the Vac lines and tested every intake and Vac connection for leaks and found none.
Backed the TB stop set screw out as much as possible and adjusted the Throttle cable to be slack. Unfortunately the TB feels like it's stuck when first pressing the gas pedal.

3 weeks ago while on a 200 mile trip the car popped p0505, p0420. I reset both codes and had bounced it off the rev limiter about 2 times while passing in 3rd gear. On the return 200 mile trip it popped a p0446 and p0420 and again I had bounced it off the rev limiter 2 times. Reset them also.

This pass weekend on the same trip no codes not even pending. I bounced the rev limiter once.

Also once in awhile it will do the bouncing between 1K and 2K rpms.

Looking at real time data all the temps, pressures and etc look normal.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
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Tmontague
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Tmontague » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:22 pm

sounds like a tough problem to figure out.

Have you checked the evap system for leaks?

How old is your cat converter?

It may be possible that one of your O2 sensors is faulty, but doesn't seem too likely.
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Salsa Guy
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Salsa Guy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:32 pm

The CAT is aftermarket Magnaflow replaced about 2.5 years ago.
Rear O2 sensor should be fine, no fault codes regarding it's health. Front O2 was replaced the same time as the CAT.
Had several random EVAP codes but found a problem with a VSV.

Yea it makes no sense.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
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Tmontague
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Tmontague » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:02 pm

P0420 can be thrown due to A faulty secondary oxygen sensor, although you don't want to change it unless you know for sure as they aren't cheap.

P0420 could also be due to the high performance cat and not because of the other issues codes you're getting

I'm out of options unless it's a bad wire somewhere that controls the IAC.

Either way it seems intermittent
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Salsa Guy
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Salsa Guy » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:16 pm

Tmontague wrote:P0420 can be thrown due to A faulty secondary oxygen sensor, although you don't want to change it unless you know for sure as they aren't cheap.

P0420 could also be due to the high performance cat and not because of the other issues codes you're getting

I'm out of options unless it's a bad wire somewhere that controls the IAC.

Either way it seems intermittent


Rarely a bad O2 will cause a P0420. There are codes that will point to a faulty O2 but P0420 isn't one of them. But thanks for your input the biggest problem is the high idle.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop

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ImUrOBGYN
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby ImUrOBGYN » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:28 am

TPS?
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korax234
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby korax234 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:21 pm

Your throttle cable could be getting stuck, if the wire is frayed it could be sticking, or the plate in the throttle body is getting stuck.
My bet is the throttle cable is messed up.

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Salsa Guy
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Salsa Guy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:59 am

I've been researching high and erratic idle on the 2zz engines on different sites over the past 2-3 years and the common thread seems to be cleaning the TB and IACV. What I believe is happening these TB wear, the butterfly will shift on the horizontal axes and dig into the side of the TB. During this same period of time dirty and oil buildup on the TB and IACV. The wear and buildup counter act each other and in my case the idle was perfect 1000-800 rpms when warm. So one day I see the TB is a mess and cleaned it, that's when the problems started and idles 1800-2000 rpms. Again I've read the same issue on other car forums pertaining to the same TB and engine. Here's a list things that have been done to correct this.

Replaced the IACV twice: No help
Inspected and/or replaced every Vacuum Line attached to the TB: No help
Tested for Vacuum leaks all around the TB and IM found nothing: No help
Got a 2nd TB and had the butterfly shaft bushings replaced by MWR: No help
Adjusted the butterfly stop screw: It helped but then the Butterfly was sticking when fully closed.
Replaced the metal TB gasket: No help
Polished the Butterfly where it was hitting the TB and adjusted the stop screw. It helped and got the Idle down to 1200-1400 rpms warm.
This was duplicated on both TBs.

So where to next? Getting another used TB would be a crap shoot. The direction I'll be taking is sending the original TB to Maxbore. According to the website they will polish out the wear areas, replace the Butterfly and shaft bushings then adjust the idle screw for about $130. There's another outfit, streetwerks, in Great Britain that does the same service but it's $300 (after shipping and all).

My suggestion to everyone do not clean your TB or IACV unless there is an obvious problem. Like me you may think it will help but again others have confirmed this. If it's not broken don't fix it.
I'm open to any suggestions, questions or comments.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop

Cowtown
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Cowtown » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:22 am

Hey SG.

I am having the same issue with the high idle and P0505 codes, (05 Matrix XRS)

Vacuum leak checks were done. (none were found)
TB and IAC were cleaned. (no help)
IAC has been changed twice (mechanic thought the first one was bad out of the box) and the mechanic has now given up (wasting to much unbillable time)
Other than the high idle, everything checks out okay, fuel ratio is within spec.

Just this silly high idle and the P0505 code without any improvment (actually one of the IAC's made it worse)

Have you been able to get to the bottom of things?

jolt
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby jolt » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:56 pm

Here is some info I ran across which is generic P0505 info ; I cut some of it out to get to the troubleshooting part:

P0505 IAC Malfunction
OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description
Article by
Dale Toalston
ASE Certified Technician
IAC (Idle Air Control) System Malfunction
What does that mean?
The IAC (Idle Air Control) valve controls the idle speed of the engine. At idle the throttle plate is closed, of course. The IAC is computer controlled and allows only a certain amount of air around the throttle plate. This metered air controls the idle speed. The IAC has a "plunger" or "shutter" that moves to open or close the bypass air passageway.
~~~~~~~~~~
Possible Solutions
This should be a fairly straightforward diagnosis. Start by clearing the fault codes. Then unplug the IAC and start the engine (This may cause other IAC codes to set. Just ignore them for now). If the P0505 code doesn't reset, replace the IAC. It is internally shorting one of the IAC circuits. If the code DOES return after unplugging the IAC and starting the engine, then you know it isn't the IAC motor. Visually check the wiring harness all the way back to the PCM. You may need to visually inspect the harness by removing all the insulation off the wires. It is possible that the wires could be shorting to each other or to other wires in the harness. If there are no wiring problems, and the code keeps returning with the IAC unplugged, you can check the PCM by removing the IAC wires from the PCM connector (or clipping the wires in a location where they can be repaired easily) and then start the engine (If you're not sure, don't do it. Take it to a qualified professional). Now if the code doesn't reset there is a problem with the wiring. Check for continuity on all the IAC wires. Any resistance points to a problem. Check for voltage on any (At this point there shouldn't be any voltages on the wires because they're clipped at one end and unplugged at the IAC). Repair as necessary. But if the P0505 code DOES reset after removing the IAC wires from the PCM connector (or clipping them), replace the PCM, there's a problem internally on the IAC control circuit.

Other related DTCs: P0506, P0507


More info and watch video: https://www.autocodes.com/p0505_toyota.html

See section 05-264 of manual posted here for help with wiring pin outs: http://madstyle1972.com/Repair/

Besides the above with wiring and connection to check and with all that you have done, I would plug all vacuum ports at the engine, on the engine including the power brake booster. Start engine and see if idle is better. You are going to get other error codes from the ECM/PCM, and you can clear these later, but if the idle speed is better then you have a vacuum leak. Hook the lines back up one at a time until the idle goes wild again and you will then know what system has a vacuum leak once you trace that vacuum line down.

Is the engine sealed? Meaning no internal vacuum leaks on motor. Oil fill cap tight and sealed? Any motor oil usage? A high amount of engine blow by past the piston rings could overwhelm the PCV system and force air into the throttle body that the IAC can not control. Do you have the proper PCV valve in engine? Any vacuum leaks or un-metered air entering the engine will cause a P0505. And what all these sources say and you have not gotten to is the ECM/PCM being bad. It looks like you checked about everything else but do not guess. Verify, verify, and if all else fails, verify again that you are checking these things properly. Just because you checked it in the past does not mean it is good now. This looks like a real puzzle and the nasty ones to figure out can be the ones that have more then one component bad. Good luck and I hope you can get this nagging problem figured out.

Cowtown
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby Cowtown » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:16 am

Finally got it beat. It was the throttle body.
One thing to note about the IAC is that it only controls the cold idle. So, if the idle lowers when warm then the IAC is infact working.

What the issue was in my case was that the throttle body no longer closes (and seals) properly (300K KM will do that I would think)
So the ECU detects the lean condition (at idle) and tries to rectify the situation by adding fuel, the outcome is the high idle and the P0505 code being thrown.

The bad news is that a new throttle body set me back $1K the good news is it runs (and idles) like new now.
HTH.

JanetsVibe
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby JanetsVibe » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:08 pm

Glad to hear you figured it out. It seems that it was an unbeatable problem for the 2zz engine. I just replaced the IAC, TP, and cleaned the throttle body. The IAC definitely needed it as it was stuck, TP I did because the code told me to do it. It is a little better but not good as new as yours is.... I am not getting any codes after I replaced the IAC, but I still have high idle.

Question #1: when I was replacing the IAC, I held the throttle body up to the light. There was a sliver of light between at the edge of the plate. Is this normal, or is it a sign that I need to replace the throttle body?

Question #2: Are decent throttle bodies at junk yards that hard to find? I can't see spending $1000 on a new one...

Thanks.
:) Janet

jolt
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby jolt » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:55 am

Question #1: when I was replacing the IAC, I held the throttle body up to the light. There was a sliver of light between at the edge of the plate. Is this normal, or is it a sign that I need to replace the throttle body?

Question #2: Are decent throttle bodies at junk yards that hard to find? I can't see spending $1000 on a new one...

Thanks.
:) Janet


Seeing light is normal. The butterfly plate should not contact the throttle body bore. If it does the throttle body will be damaged and you will also end up with a sticky throttle pedal as it will hang. There needs to be a small amount of clearance hence the light. Some people use the plate stop screw as a idle speed adjustment and it is not. You should never have to adjust the plate stop screw.

They can be hard to find as some places will not sell just that part. Also the throttle plate shaft and bore wear out over time and if someone played with the stop screw and had the plate contacting the bore then it is junk too.

OccasionalLarry
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby OccasionalLarry » Mon May 15, 2017 9:08 pm

I'm having the same issue (high revving idle) with my 06 Base. My situation seems a little different than this one though. To start with, I'm using a 1zz. I'm not the most mechanically inclined or savvy individual, so I'm not sure if there's any difference in throttle bodies between the two. I also only really noticed this all occur in the cold, but this may be coincidence.

Most worryingly, though, is that the issue isn't just idling; I once, through creative gearing, made it home from work (averaging 50km/h) without touching the gas pedal. I'm not sure if this is an exact issue you guys have seen, but I'm happy to see that there seems to be a solution... I just wish I hadn't spent so much trying to fix this already :cry:

mturrieta
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby mturrieta » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:15 am

I think I found the answer, seems to be a design flaw in throttle body.

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/thr ... dle-98214/

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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby lannvouivre » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:19 am

I'm relaying that lotustalk link to the genvibe Facebook page, thanks.
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tpollauf
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Re: High Idle 03 Vibe GT 2zz

Postby tpollauf » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:07 am

mturrieta wrote:I think I found the answer, seems to be a design flaw in throttle body.

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/thr ... dle-98214/


Nice find. And to think this was discovered almost SEVEN years ago and just now making it to GenVibe :o
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