2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

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JohnnieMo
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2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:25 pm

I've had my car for about 4 months, and recently I've discovered a very un-nerving issue. The car is a 2009 Vibe GT Auto with 77,000km.

When I have to stop quickly, the brakes do the job well and the car comes to a stop. Just as the car approaches a velocity of zero, the car lurches forward a slight bit. My first thought was that the brakes were sticking and then releasing. However I tried the same test with the car in neutral, and the problem did not occur. So this tells me the car is applying power in this situation when it shouldn't be.

It is so bad my wife doesn't even want to drive the car anymore. She is afraid of it. It is quite an aggressive lunge and it makes you think something is wrong with the brakes. The RPM doesn't noticeably increase when this happens.

I did find at least one mention on the internet of this being prevalent with the Vibe, but I can't see how this wouldn't be a recall. My assumption is it is a problem with the torque converter, throttle (somewhere), or right in the computer itself. This problem could have been around for a while but I only noticed it once the roads de-iced.

Any wisdom would be appreciated.

JohnnieMo
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Caretaker
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Caretaker » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:07 pm

Nope, it is not your brakes. It is your automatic transmission. I recommend getting a reflash of the computer from the dealer to see if that corrects the problem. If not, check the fluid to see if it is still cherry red and has no burnt smell or foam on the stick. If it is an actual transmission failure, I would expect it to exhibit other signs than just the lurch at stop signals, such as "slamming" in between gears, RPM lurches with no measurable increase in speed, and a several second delay in getting the transmission to activate reverse gear once you shift the lever to R. Nonetheless, if the transmissions control module (computer) is not playing well with the components, the lurch is very common, and a reflash would be in order. Best of luck.
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
** 2009 Vibe: 1.8 liter automatic **
** 2010 Elantra Touring **
** 2007 Honda Fit Sport **

JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:02 pm

I am taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Does this sound like a power train warranty related issue? I would say yes but I'm biased.

Transmission fluid looks perfect.
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Rayven01
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Rayven01 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:23 pm

JohnnieMo wrote:Does this sound like a power train warranty related issue? I would say yes but I'm biased.

Yes, sounds like a transmission issue to me.
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JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:10 pm

Thanks. I will let you know what they say. I have noticed the initial shift into drive or reverse is a bit more abrupt than I'm used to. But my last car was an Acura TL.
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Caretaker » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:52 am

....and I apologize about my misleading statement about the transmission fluid. Since we are dealing with all used Vibe's now, it is important that I clarify my comment. I doubt the following involves your car since you only have 48,000 miles on it, but it is worth throwing out there for other readers nonetheless. While it is true that you want to see tranny fluid that is a nice cherry red, finding cherry red fluid in a used Vibe could be a warning sign for two reasons:
1. If the fluid was never changed at a proper interval and someone decided to do a full on FLUSH of the tranny, particles (dried varnish essentially) could dislodge, making the transmission a hazard. This is why you will see some on this board oppose ever flushing a transmission out. When in doubt-drain it out - is the mantra to follow on used vehicles with an unknown vehicle history.
2. since you have an '09, your transmission has World Standard fluid in it from the factory. It is good for upwards of 100,000 miles. You will see a WS on your dipstick to confirm this. The first generation Vibes had Toyota type IV fluid, not WS. Our '09 GM owner's manual incorrectly states that our '09 Vibe has T-IV fluid. Should your fluid look brand new and the owner/dealer followed the owner's manual, you could have the wrong fluid in your transmission as a result of a drain/flush and a technician blindly following the owner's manual.
I personally don't know how to tell the difference between the two (visually). I just wanted to amend my comment in case you were aware that a drain/flush was done to the car at some point. Since you only have 48,000 miles on the car, it is HIGHLY unlikely that the fluid was ever changed. That would be way too early of an interval. I changed mine out only because I got a great price, and that was at the 60,000 mile mark.
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
** 2009 Vibe: 1.8 liter automatic **
** 2010 Elantra Touring **
** 2007 Honda Fit Sport **

JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:22 am

Wow. That is really important data. I was going to do my own transmission fluid change with the T-IV. I read it in the manual. The fluid looked very clean, almost too clean. I don't think it is original. The dealership said it was due to be changed but I told them no as the manual says it is pretty much good for life. That irked me.

As a side note apparently my warranty expired two weeks ago. I have no idea how a 2009 model car has already expired a 5 year power train warranty. ????
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Rayven01
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Rayven01 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:36 am

JohnnieMo wrote:I have no idea how a 2009 model car has already expired a 5 year power train warranty. ????

It's the "model year" thing. My 2009 was actually built in February '08 and sold as a fleet vehicle pretty much immediately, so my warranty is also up.
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JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:09 am

Rayven01 wrote:
JohnnieMo wrote:I have no idea how a 2009 model car has already expired a 5 year power train warranty. ????

It's the "model year" thing. My 2009 was actually built in February '08 and sold as a fleet vehicle pretty much immediately, so my warranty is also up.


I think that is pure garbage. Unsuspecting buyers like me end up buying a car that is potentially 2 years older than it could be. And we run out of warranty. It is great for re-sale value, but crap for the poor buyer.
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT

JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am

Well I took it in and naturally they were unable to reproduce the problem. So I tried it afterwards and sure enough, the problem is completely gone. I have no idea why it was happening ALL the time, then stopped as soon as the car hit the shop. So far it hasn't happened since. All they did was a multi-point inspection of the vehicle and swap out the master window switch from a recall. I don't see how any of that would have affected the power train.
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Caretaker » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:09 pm

yeah, sorry for that. I play the same game with my dealer. They have had my car in for the bendix gear starter motor issue for well over 15 full days over the past year. They only replicated the problem once and then performed the wrong repair. The other day, I brought the car in for the window panel grease job, and wouldn't you know it, the bendix gear gives out its twice a month screech in my driveway enroute to the dealership. It is pure torture. I have the car in again tonight so they can apply the Toyota grease which they had to order. I asked them to be cognizant of the starting of my car tomorrow morning, just in case we get lucky and the starter decides to reveal itself.
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
** 2009 Vibe: 1.8 liter automatic **
** 2010 Elantra Touring **
** 2007 Honda Fit Sport **

Dairgo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Dairgo » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:19 pm

WAAAAAAAAAY late to the party here...

I've got the same problem with my 2009 Vibe GT. On some pretty aggressive brakes, and on some normal ones like from 15mph to a stop. it'll come to almost a complete stop and then lunge a little. I was able to get the mechanic shop that is go to, to reproduce it. They believe it to be the torque converter. only one way to know for sure, and that'll cost an arm and a leg to do ($1800), still calling around to see if I can get a better quote and get a confirmation on a replacement part. The GM part is 19205518, I can get if anywhere from just under $300 to around $500. The DACCO part, I can't confirm whether it's TO75 or TO42LS, or neither. DACCO says it's TO42LS, but everywhere I put the number in, says it's not compatible with my car, same for the TO75 (hint: it's for the AWD).

I'm keeping the car as trade-in value is likely not worth it (148,000 miles on a 8 year old car). So it comes down to do I live with it, or get it fixed before the parts become more scarce.

JohnnieMo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby JohnnieMo » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:50 pm

Thanks for posting your experience. I am convinced it is the torque converter. It is the only thing that makes sense. A transmission flush could cure it also, but most folks say that can cause as much harm as good. However if you are going to replace it anyways what does it matter?

Mine is still doing this at 122,500km. It only quit for a few days when I took it to the dealer. Now it is back and I assume it will do it forever. Since I expect the car to do it, I brake accordingly. It's funny as I now drive all cars (rentals etc.) like they will exhibit this same problem.

Shabby Toyota engineering I say.
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT

Dairgo
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby Dairgo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:45 am

Well, I'll be able to tell you exactly what my problem is next week Friday. As I was getting a quote from a dealership, I described my problem to the service guy, he didn't think it sounded like a torque converter problem, but rather a transmission pressure solenoid problem. I said I was open to a second opinion if they had a transmission guy (not looking to put $2K into the vehicle). So I have a diagnostic appointment next week Thursday at 10am.

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tpollauf
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Re: 2009 Vibe GT lunges during aggressive braking

Postby tpollauf » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:55 am

Dairgo wrote: he didn't think it sounded like a torque converter problem, but rather a transmission pressure solenoid problem.


Makes me glad my Vibe has the 5-speed manual transmission 8-) My son's though, which is an automatic, does not have signs of this problem yet! Keep us posted when you get the diagnostic report :D
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