GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Who's done it? I've done them on other cars. Just wondering if these cars are the same.Drop pan, remove gasket, pull off/down filter, push new filter back on, re-instal pan, and ad new fluid.Is that about it? How much fluid does it take? Thanks

Dropping the pan,you only get a third of the fluid or less.Take it somewhere that has a trans flush machine.It'll cost more,but the end result is better in my opinion.You change ALL of the fluid(around two gallons)and the kit we use has a flush/cleaner you put in before,and a fluid/seal conditioner you put in when you're done.No,you don't get a new filter,but it really doesn't catch much.If it has enough in it that it needs replaced,you more than likely have other problems in the tranny...

ok, so dropping the pan and letting it all drain for about an hour is still no good?? I still have to take it somewhere to flush it/relace the filter?? Had a local small shop quote $255 to do that. More than I wanted to spend at the time.In this case, it was merely a stop gap job, since I only drained the old fluid from the transmission and filter and did not replace the filter. I plan on doing that in the near future, the fluid just really needed to be changed as it reminded me of the engine oil when it was draining through the plug. I supposedly had the transmission flushed last year at the Pontiac dealer, but it looks like they didn't do much of anything, just pulled the plug and let it drain. I discovered that there is a LOT more fluid sitting in that pan that wont make it through the drain hole.BTW, the manual said change the fluid at 60K, but dows that mean change the filter as well or does that come at a later mileage?

$255.00 for a transmission flush is outrageous. I had mine done for under $100.00 and that's in Canada.

The filter does not need to be replaced, just cleaned. Take some brake cleaner and give it a good shot after you pop it out. Pulling the drain pan off and the filter off takes about 4.3 quarts of tranny fluid out of a total of 7 quarts, I think....... you can't get the stuff out of the torque convertor unless you get it flushed. I just did it this way this time but in the future I'll get it flushed. I called some places and they told me 88$ but then once I told them it needed Type T-IV fluid they said it'd cost 188$. GM dealers don't know what the hell they're doing and all the Toyota dealers i went to said they simply drop the pan and refill every 30k miles..... they never flush.

Well it was to flush it and replace the filter with a new one. Thats probably why it was so high.Guess I'll just watch the fluid and see if it gets dark again, then I will drop the pan yet another time and clean out the filter.

At one point in time from the dealer, I got a quote for $89 for a transmission fluid change, today I got a $99 quote. I certainly hope this isn't just a drain and fill. I'll find out more when I bring it in. I'm assuming they will be pulling the pan.Either way, $99 or $89, that sounds far too cheap, but I'm going to run with it. Seeing that GM Parts Direct shows the T-IV fluid GM list $12.93 or $7.37 a friggin' QUART their price, something doesn't sound right. To cover my (removed), I am going to the Toyota dealer and buying 8 quarts of T-IV and will have that in the car, and will discuss the fluid issue with them prior to them doing anything to the car. If they quoted me the price thinking it needed Dexron-III, I will ask that they use my fluid, if that price includes T-IV, more power to them - use their crap. If that's the case and I have all of that fluid left over if it is not used, I may be interested in selling it here once this is done with.I can get it done cheaper by doing it myself or going elsewhere, but that is a risk I can't allow myself to take at this point. I've got a feeling that the transmission may be on its last leg, so I don't want to have any potential warranty-related battles with GM. If that's really the case, this needs to stay in the dealers hands.I'll keep you guys updated once I get it taken care of, which will be Friday afternoon.

Ok, I think I'm going to attempt a quick 'drain and fill' this weekend. I'm at 76,000 miles on my 2003 (Auto, base). I checked the fluid at lunch and it looks more like used motor oil (not black, but not the right color) but it doesn't smell 'burnt'. It was 'red' at 34,400 miles when we bought the car in 05 so I don't know if its original fluid or not.From what I've read, you can only get about 4 quarts out of a 'drain and fill'. On other cars I've had, we've added fluid in the dipstick tube. Is the same true for the Vibe, or is there a filler cap/plug?I'm probably going to go with Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF.

Yep, did ours a few days ago (32K miles). Pulled the plug on the pan, let it drain about 20 min, put the plug back in and filled it with 124 ozs of T-IV. Dip stick looks nice and red/pink now.

Ok, quick question. What's the size of the drain plug? I plan on taking care of it this weekend (finally). Thanks.

14mm I think, but not positive......just get a cheap set of metric sockets and you s/b good to go.

Hmmm...what does the manual say (if anything)?On the Honda Odyssey, for example, you can change the tranny fluid one of two ways:1) With the machine that flushes out all the old fluid and replace with new fluid.or2) Via the drain plug. Drain, refill, drive.....drain, refill, drive....drain, refill, drive...repaat this process three times (pretty sure that's correct) to 'guarantee' that you've got all the old fluid out or at least did the best job possible.

The sticker on the tranny dip stick says it's not necessary to change the fluid under normal driving conditions. Just pulling the drain plug gets more than half of the fluid out and is very easy to do so I plan on doing it that way each year and call it good.

HI, I am reviving an old thread about trans fluid change. I understand the drain vs flush argument but am curious about the flush procedure. Does anyone know how this is done exactly? What do they flush it with? Oil, solvent, unknown liquid?What procedure to they follow?Where do they hook up the flusher?How do they get all of the flush liquid out? If they don't how does it affect the trans long term?I'm old school and leery of this procedure. There was a period of time some manufacturers put a drain plug on the convertor to enable a complete drain of the system. This seems like a much more logical choice but cannot be easily retrofit and then you create balance issues.I lean towards the drain, run, drain, run, drain run process which continually dilutes the oil until it is mostly new oil with just a tad of the old oil mixed it.labor intensive and wasteful but this may be the better option until I know a lot more about this flushing procedure.Dave

read thishttp://autotechrepair.suite101...40206makesure you read the comments as well... there is a difference between fluid swaps and flushing.

Quote, originally posted by djkeev »HI, I am reviving an old thread about trans fluid change. I understand the drain vs flush argument but am curious about the flush procedure. Does anyone know how this is done exactly? What do they flush it with? Oil, solvent, unknown liquid?What procedure to they follow?Where do they hook up the flusher?How do they get all of the flush liquid out? If they don't how does it affect the trans long term?I'm old school and leery of this procedure. There was a period of time some manufacturers put a drain plug on the convertor to enable a complete drain of the system. This seems like a much more logical choice but cannot be easily retrofit and then you create balance issues.I lean towards the drain, run, drain, run, drain run process which continually dilutes the oil until it is mostly new oil with just a tad of the old oil mixed it.labor intensive and wasteful but this may be the better option until I know a lot more about this flushing procedure.DaveAt work we call it a flush, but it's an incorrect term. We actually exchange the fluid.At work we use a BG machine. There is a cleaner that is run through first before the machine is hooked up (I don't know if I would even bother using it on my car). The machine is hooked up to the transmission cooler lines, and the fluid used to flush is transmission fluid. The machine is more of an exchanger than a flush since it uses the car's own transmission pressure to perform it's action. It exchanges the old fluid for fresh, clean fluid. There are some that use high pressure to accomplish the same thing, I would stay away from those. If you have it done, find out how they do it. Back flushing is not a procedure I would use, and it isn't what I was taught in school either - probably a reason for that. My point of view is if the fluid is already bad, or you have high miles, a flush - no matter how its done - could be bad. Clean fluids, with their new detergents, remove all the gunk that keeps the valve body and clutches operating ok. Remove all that, the transmission slips. Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie...

Hi,Thanks for your replies about the "flushing" procedures. I agree I'd run away quickly from the pressure backwash system. It just seems wrong and unnatural!I'm not even convinced that I like the solvent being fed into the trans as the old fluid is removed via the fluid replacement method. Why are we introducing foreign substances to a mechanical component that has a horrible reputation for durability across the entire spectrum of auto manufacturers?I also agree about the idea that if you have high miles and if it ain't broke don't go fixing it! I have a Dodge Caravan in my stable right now that falls into this category. (not my doing, it came under my care horribly abused).My Vibe only has 45,000 miles on it and I don't wish to have problems with it. I don't like auto trans and only have one because I love my wife who did want an auto trans! (for the first time during our entire relationship) I'm thinking of changing the trans oil at the 60,000 mile rough service threshold as recommended in the owners literature, even though my Vibe leads a much less than rough life.For the price of the "fluid replacement" service and the fact that I'd have to trust the vehicle to a "professional" mechanic (don't get me started on what I've seen "professionals" do to cars over the years) I think I'm just going to drain what I can, refill..... run it, drain what I can, refill,...... run it and then once again for a total of three cycles. It will be a mess, it will cost a few $$'s in oil but I think I'll sleep better knowing that I did what I could to prevent problems down the road. All oils break down and decay from contaminants and heat after a period of time. There is no "super" lubricant that will last forever ..... yet.FYI below is what the owners manual recommends about service and about the oils to use."Change automatic transaxle fluid every60,000 miles (96 000 km) if the vehicle is mainlydriven under one or more of these conditions:− In heavy city traffic where the outsidetemperature regularly reaches 90°F(32°C) or higher.− In hilly or mountainous terrain.− When doing frequent trailer towing.− Uses such as found in taxi, police, ordelivery service.AutomaticTransaxleUse only T-IV AutomaticTransmission Fluid(GM Part No. U.S. 88900925, inCanada 22689186). See AutomaticTransaxle Fluid on page 290. "

Solvent is not fed into a transmission as the old fluid is removed... And I have yet to have a callback on anything that has had a fluid exchange using the BG machine - maybe we're just lucky?My desire to not buy 16qts of fluid to do a fluid exchange is exactly why I do a drain/fill every 10-15k... Maybe it's overkill, but I wouldn't wait until 60k...Get the fluid at the Toyota dealer, it's a lot cheaper than a GM dealer since it is their fluid...

I JUST had this done at an oil change shop by my office, not even an hour ago. Needless to say, i was highly suspicious doing this at only 35,500 miles (I actually pulled out the manual right then and there to check the maintenance schedule!). I trust this shop, but I honestly thought the guy was taking my oil dipstick and calling it the trans fluid. Not the case.I had them dip and re-dip to show me exactly what they were doing, and sure enough, my trans. fluid was a DEEP, SOLID black. I was astonished, but I had to remember, I switched to nearly ALL city driving a year and a half ago, so my tranny has been tortured many, many months (especially with my driving style!). They had the "transfer" style of machine, and it was pretty damn cool to watch. Took about 20 minutes to do. You could actually watch the old stuff being pumped into the machine from the engine, which then creates the pressure necessary to push the new (red-ish in color) stuff into the engine (with it running, to create the pressure our engines provide normally). The guy came down a bit in price, so I got it done for $80, instead of $109. Very worth-while for someone like me who does not have the know-how or equipment to do this on my own time.I was just incredibly surprised I needed it done so quickly (IMHO), but the manager did comment that our base engines (and Toyota engines in general) are known for needing this done just a bit earlier than others. I thought that was odd, but I have been going to this shop for 3 years, so I trust 'em. Any how, it's done, and I have some peace of mind for many more miles!

Toyota T-IV fluid for $5/quarthttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ories

Is that a good deal? What does the dealer charge?

Just as a note, I had a 96 Sable. The forums I was on there was a procedure for flushing the trans at home.After you drop the pan, change the filter and reinstall the pan, you would add fluid to the trans, unhook one of the trans cooling lines and put into a bucket and start the car. Stop the engine once the fluid starts to come out clean. Hook up the hose and add the rest of the fluid.I never had to do it, but a lot of people did.

Quote, originally posted by Vibetastic »Is that a good deal? What does the dealer charge?The local Toyota Dealer in my area charges $4.85 per quart. You'll need to buy 4 quarts.I just changed the xmission fluid in my Vibe yesterday and it took about 3.75 quarts to refill. The old fluid that came out (@ 40K) was dark red. This is strictly a matter of opinion but I don't believe in "flushing/exchanging" the xmission oil/fluid. Nor do I believe it is necessary to drop the pan and change the xmission filter in these cars. At less than $20 bucks for the Toyata T-IV Oil, I'll probably do this job every other year instead of every 3 years. It's even an easier job to do than changing the regular motor oil!

Factoring in the shipping cost on that auction, It would be slightly cheaper to drop by a local Toyota dealership to buy the fluid.

I agree. Just drain and fill.

after searching the forum for something else related to transmission fluid change i am still confused. is it better to drop the pan and drain or to just drain 3 times? if you don't drop the pan, how often are you supposed to then change it?i've come to the conclusion to not flush at all. also, i thought i recalled reading that if you pull the pan you need to have the car warm before you do it but i can't find it again.

If you haven't ever changed your oil, by all means get a new gasket and a filter gasket. If you wish, get a filter though the term filter is a misnomer for it is simply a screen to keep chunks out. You can remove it and clean it, messy but saves a few bucks, just use carb cleaner and dry well.You'll most likely find a film of black on everything inside the pan. I've got my own opinions on change interval based on this but that is another topic!You want to pull the pan because you want to see what is in the pan. Ideally there isn't anything, realistically there is only a film of black and IF things are horribly wrong, you will find fairly large bits of "stuff" indicating your transmission is shot. In the black you will find what looks like gold dust, it isn't, it is wear debris, but it is normal for a small amount to be there.Clean it well, clean off the magnet which should have nothing more than metallic dust on it and put it all back together.Add your oil to the proper level, 4.3 qts?? Use ONLY THE TOYOTA TYPE IV oil!!! Don't go using universal oils, one grade fits all kind of stuff.Since changing mine I've drained the trans via the plug when I change the oil. I am renewing/ replacing 3 qts of trans oil every 5000 miles or so. I've done it twice now and will do it a few more times or I may continue doing it, I haven't decided yet. I am also going to send some of my original trans oil out for chemical analyst when I get the chance to see how bad it was at 50,000 miles and that will help me determine future change intervals.It is slightly messy but the task is made more pleasant by the drain plug. I won't drop the pan again until about 100,000 just to see what is wearing (reading the pan debris is like tea leaf reading) there is a lot to know from the residual in the oil pan.Good luck, do what YOU are comfortable with, I'm a tad (removed) with oil changes, others don't care much.Dave

Quote, originally posted by tribalman »after searching the forum for something else related to transmission fluid change i am still confused. is it better to drop the pan and drain or to just drain 3 times? if you don't drop the pan, how often are you supposed to then change it?i've come to the conclusion to not flush at all. also, i thought i recalled reading that if you pull the pan you need to have the car warm before you do it but i can't find it again.I've never heard of having to warm the car before you drop the pan. I agree that flushing is unnecessary (I know that I will take some heat for this). Just change it. You will not see a significant difference between draining it once or three times. It would be better to drop the pan, but then you will probably have to put a new gasket on which I believe the torque specs are to 76 in/lbs. NOT FT/LBS. My ideas on this come from my late f-i-l who owned his own tranny shop for 16 years and another 15 years in other shops prior.

I'm reviving this old thread... I was reading in the owner's manual that unless you drive under certain types of conditions I should not need to change the transmission fluid at all in my Vibe. Is this true? If so, why do I hear so much about people changing it then? I did check the color of it using the dipstick and it looks like motor oil (blackish rather than red). So does this mean it needs changing?Also, I've read that it's a bad idea to have a shop do what might be called a "flush," where the fluid is pushed backward through the system using a machine that actually stirs up all kinds of trouble. Aren't there some shops that use a machine to just replace the fluid where it pushes the fluid through in the right direction? If these machines operate under high pressure do they also tend to cause problems? Is it better overall to have someone replace fluid manually?Thanks!

You're going to get a hundred different opinions from a hundred different people... Reread the thread and you will see what I mean. IMO, it's your car, do what you think is right. Then you only have yourself to blame...IIRC, the fluid is darker than the traditional atf, so it will look darker much sooner. Doesn't mean yours isn't dirty though.

Quote, originally posted by nugentc »I'm reviving this old thread... I was reading in the owner's manual that unless you drive under certain types of conditions I should not need to change the transmission fluid at all in my Vibe. Is this true? If so, why do I hear so much about people changing it then? I did check the color of it using the dipstick and it looks like motor oil (blackish rather than red). So does this mean it needs changing?Also, I've read that it's a bad idea to have a shop do what might be called a "flush," where the fluid is pushed backward through the system using a machine that actually stirs up all kinds of trouble. Aren't there some shops that use a machine to just replace the fluid where it pushes the fluid through in the right direction? If these machines operate under high pressure do they also tend to cause problems? Is it better overall to have someone replace fluid manually?Thanks!First off..... WELCOME!!!! always good to have new blood here!!How many miles on your Vibe? What year is it?You need to decide what is right. There are companies that will analyze an oil sample and tell you if it is good or worn out for a fee, usually about $25.00 or so. This is your BEST way of knowing what to do. Anything else is guessing, opinions (such as you may have noticed that I have if you read my posts), and experience.Blackstone is one of these firms with a good proven track record....http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Indeed, do NOT flush the transmission, the sales pitches are slick and they make it sound great.... run away!Use the proper Toyota oil no matter what you do, the generic "one size fits all transmissions" is crap and snake oil. Use the specified oils with the proper properties for this transmissions operating needs.The exchange machine is fine..... but, and a big but it is....... they most often don't run Toyota oil in in but the one size fits all type.Statistically, change your oil 3 times in quick succession and you'll have changed the vast majority of it. It is like filtering a pool, circulate it 3 times in a 24 hour period and you will have filter almost all of the water once.It is easy, you can do it yourself and it is safe. Don't go to Pontiac to get oil. They charge too much. I get my genuine Toyota oil at my local auto parts store for $3 something a quart. Some have paid as much as $15!!!! I'm in Northern Jersey so you can find it. At the least go to Toyota, they have it.Good luck! Enjoy your car and enjoy the Fall trips that you should take this weekend and maybe next before the leaves are gone!Dave

Dave,Many thanks for the super helpful and thorough reply!!! The car is a 2006 and has just over 70,000 miles.I have started doing a bit of maintenance myself (changed brake pads last spring and will do headlight bulb today) and am pretty handy, so I thought of tackling this also. However, I don't have jack stands or any other way of raising the car. If it's just removing the drain plug, I might be able to manage being under there without raising it because I'm pretty slender. But if I need to drop the pan that's probably a little too much maneuvering for the tight space. Yes, the leaves are gorgeous right now! Thanks again for all of the great tips.

The Vibe is high enough that you shouldn't need to jack it up to drop the pan. I know you definitely don't need to if you only pull the plug. Heck, when I was lowered I didn't need to jack it up to change the oil...At that mileage you should drop the pan-you'll be amazed at what is on there. Everything else on the topic has pretty much been covered. There is nothing hard about this job, so don't be afraid to do it yourself.

Pontiac .....errrr.....Toyota was kind enough to put a drain plug on the transmission oil pan. You can easily reach under there and pull the plug. This minimizes the mess of dropping the pan.After that I would drop the pan and carefully look at what is in the pan after you get it off. You are looking for Gold, well not gold but bronze colored metal. You don't really want to see any but a little is ok. Chunks or massive piles or the magnet total covered with bits of metal will not be a good thing to see!At 70,000 you really should change the oil. Do it now and do it at the next two oil changes. Drop the pan now, just pull the plug the next two times.Drop the filter and a little mess will ensue, just be ready for it. Look at the screen in the filter and look for chunks. You can put a new one on, you don't have to, it is only a screen and not a filter. Do put new seals on it though. Also get a new oil pan gasket as well.Clean everything up, put it back together. Be aware, do NOT overtighten the pan bolts, you will want to but refrain. If you warp the pan you will have leaks!Have fun....Dave

Thanks, everyone! I think I'm convinced I can/should do the job and think I now know just about everything I'd need to know to do it! I appreciate all of the great info here--the thread on changing a headlight bulb was really helpful also.

I can't remember how fun the headlights on the Vibe are, but I've had some fun times doing that simple job.If you can change engine oil, you can do transmission fluid. Dave's advice on doing it at the next three oil changes is good, it'll get most of it changed out.

Thanks for the tips! Even though the manual says the transmission fluid doesn't need changing under normal operating conditions. I unknowingly took my vibe to a place that charged me 200 bucks to do a transmission power flush and fluid replacement about 15k miles ago when my vibe had 63k miles. The idiots over there overfilled it by almost 2 quarts. My engine is code 8 requiring 3.2 quarts of fluid and when I drained the all in one fluid crap they probably used close to five quarts came out of the pan and of course that doesn't even include the fluid still left in the transmission. I went to Toyota and picked up 4 quarts of the T-IV ATF. I was worried 3.2 quarts wouldn't be enough but once I warmed to fluid up after driving 15 miles to the recommended fluid temperature to get an accurate reading the dipstick read right in between the 2 marks on the hot part of the dipstick. Once all was said in done I ended up putting in about 3.5 quarts total. The next time I'll do a full drain, change out the filter and pan gasket and fill with Amsoil ATF . Hope having it overfilled and with the "all in one" fluid didn't cause long term damage to my tranny, I'm glad Toyota installed a drain plug on the pan it makes draining so much easier. It seems alot of "Quick Lube" shops assume because it's GM it will take GM fluids and don't know it's a Toyota engine requiring Toyota spec fluids. I experienced this first hand when I went to get a quote to change out the antifreeze and they wanted to use Dexcool. Well, I know I have the pink Toyota long life Coolant in my car, not the orange Dexcool, so I left the shop and went to Toyota the get the right coolant and do the job myself. I've heard so many bad things about Dexcool, there was no way they were putting that stuff in my car.

I know I have seen this before but I couldnt find it. When doing a drain & fill you are supposed to do it 3X to flush out all A/T fluid.....but how far apart ( in miles ) is each drain & refill untill you have reached the 3rd one? Every "x" amount of miles? Make sense?

Okay, I'm attempting to do this. I got the plug pulled and the fluid drained (containers I had weren't big enough so I've got a mess to clean up!). But I really can't fit under there to loosen all of those bolts to drop the pan. Is there a trick to this (body position, angle) that I'm missing? I have a jack, just no stands. Can I jack it up and set the tire on something solid (like a couple of 2 x 10s laid flat on top of each other) just to give me a few of more inches? Any tips?

Quote, originally posted by nugentc »Like a couple of 2 x 10s laid flat on top of each otherThat will work fine!!! Just make sure your e-brake is on!

i also make sure i put cinder blocks behind both the back tires. keeps it from rolling backwards.

Thanks, everyone. Great photo, star_deceiver. Besides my initial mishap with the overflow mess, it went great (I think). And I met lots of neighbors in the process of looking for a metric socket set! Thanks again--great forum!

I used this guide: http://www.toyotanation.com/fo...25325Works great for anyone who wants future reference. It is for a corolla but its the same trans and engine as the base 03-08 Vibes.