Misfires on all but one cylinder

1.8-liter VVTL-i (2ZZ-GE) and VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) engine, transmission, exhaust, intake, and performance tuning discussions
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tkiley
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, but not new to the Vibe. I actually also owned a Geo Prism before that and multiple Corollas back to 1976!

My current issue is a recurrent barrage of dash lights including the abs traction and ses lights with the following codes:

P0300
P0301
P0303
P0304

Note the specific absence of P0302

I have done as follows over the last few months each time it would return.
  • Replaced rear abs sensor harnesses (before I read the codes, I was following up on a dealer report of corrosion on the connectors causing common failures)

    Replaced air filter

    Changed battery and cleaned battery terminals

    By this time I got my OBDII reader

    Replaced iridium spark plugs

    Replaced ignition coils

    Cleaned mass airflow sensor

    Cleaned fuel injectors

    Removed and cleaned throttle body and reinstalled with new gasket

    Sprayed carb cleaner around intake manifold (no effect)

    Replaced fuel injectors

    Put dielectric grease in EVERY connection I disconnected and reconnected
Meanwhile, between instances, the car would often run fine for weeks and exhibit no apparent signs of any issues. The lights would sometimes appear at idle or other times at random, but most often during harder acceleration with RPMs over 4,000 (nowhere near redline).

Today I'm putting on a new gas cap, but I doubt it has anything to do with the misfires (especially because it always excludes cylinder 2). Same symptom which makes me doubt a MAF sensor, throttle body, or any other system that should not normally affect all but one cylinder.

I have read about some other possibilities which also seem unlikely, like O2 sensors, timing chain "stretch", etc. I did have some concern about valve issues, but why would it run normally most of the time if there was a mechanical issue? The valve timing and clearance can't change back and forth on their own.

I would appreciate any other ideas before I crack open the head cover or pay money to a professional to diagnose a mystery problem like this.

Thanks

2009 Vibe Base 1.8
5 speed manual
108,000 miles
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vibrologist
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Location: Iowa

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by vibrologist »

That's a tough one considering everything you have done. I guess we are left at shooting in the dark.

Next I would check the alternator and battery. A parts store can do that for free. A faulty alternator can play havoc with the computer.

I am thinking it could be something in the wiring going back to the computer or the computer itself. Maybe there is an intermittent wire to wire short.

You probably already checked (cleaned) all ground connections between the engine and the body.

Is there any oil in the plug tunnels? That would indicate the need for a new valve cover gasket.

Another relatively rare but expensive failure mode is a failing timing cover gasket. If there is any oil leaking form that gasket you may assume that air manages to get in.


Good luck!
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

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tkiley
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

I did not clean other ground connections. I will do that today. I will also go get an alternator test and check again for oil in the plug wells.
andrewclaus
Posts: 481
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by andrewclaus »

Since I have the tools, next thing I would check would be engine vacuum and compression.

I also have a scan tool that will get freeze frame data and I would try to analyze that. I might suspect crank and cam angle sensors.

The one time I had a misfire code new plugs took care of it, so my experience is limited.
Zimm
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by Zimm »

did you replace your plugs with denso single tip iridium plugs or something else? i remember stories here from people who replaced with autolite or even the denso laser iridium with 2 tips and they having problems with codes being triggered. i just replaced mine this weekend and man did i wait too long (10 years, 135,000.) fwiw, you can often save a bit if you buy ACDelco iridium because they are the same denso plugs (even labeled "denso" on the plug, but put into an ACDelco box (ACDelco does not make any of their own parts.)
'10 Black w/1.8L AutoAir/PW/PL/PM
tkiley
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

They were Autolite brand iridium spark plugs. I may have to try putting in Densos again. That would be confusing to have misfires on all but one of the cylinders though.
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vibrologist
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by vibrologist »

Did you buy genuine coils or aftermarket?

Consider replacing the intake manifold gasket just for the heck of it. It's not expensive and not hard. It allows you to look into the manifold and into the intake canals. Sometimes you will find oil on the manifold (get a new PCV valve) and I seem to remember that some manifolds had a piece of a baffle coming loose.
Check the exhaust system. Maybe there is a hairline crack in the header or somewhere towards the cat.

Drive with the OBDII reader connected. Does something show when the symptoms occure?
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

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Jbenrod
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by Jbenrod »

Swap the coil from the good cyl. (#2) over to another cyl. and see if the miss changes with the coils.

Aftermarket coils can cause problems as vibrologist is asking.
2005 Base - 220k
Zimm
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by Zimm »

tkiley wrote:They were Autolite brand iridium spark plugs. I may have to try putting in Densos again. That would be confusing to have misfires on all but one of the cylinders though.
my money is on the plugs. somewhere on this board are some old threads about people having misfire issues when using autolites specifically. switching to the denso iridium single tip eliminated the issue.
'10 Black w/1.8L AutoAir/PW/PL/PM
tkiley
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

Just this weekend I changed my oil and replaced the Autolite plugs I had put in a few months ago, with new Denso plugs. So far no codes, and the engine seems more responsive. I'm cautiously optimistic.
tkiley
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

Unfortunately, the misfires returned, and I ended up taking it to an actual mechanic who confirmed my suspicion that rockers had indeed thrown from 4 valves. Repairs are under weigh, but I am concerned it will happen again.

Why would they just jump off like that? :(
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vibrologist
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by vibrologist »

rockers had indeed thrown from 4 valves

I seem to recall that the owner's manual talks about the occasional need to adjust valve clearance - yes, adjust valve clearance even though the lifters are of the hydraulic self adjusting type. Apparently they are able to go out of range. If that happens there should be increased valve clatter. ----It may even allow the rockers to slip off.

The above is somewhere between educated guess and speculation. Let's see what your mechanic says.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

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andrewclaus
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by andrewclaus »

Something causing the valve to stick in the open position allowing a gap for the rocker to shoot out:
Poor fuel
Debris in oil
Bent valve
Valve seat coming loose and dislodging

I just copied that from a web search. Since it happened on four, and it doesn't appear to be a common problem with this engine, my guess would be a systemic problem like lubrication or cooling.

Hopefully your mechanic is good enough (and you have funds enough) to find the root cause. It may require valve work as well.
tpollauf
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tpollauf »

tkiley wrote: rockers had indeed thrown from 4 valves.
I'd like to see pictures of this :?
tkiley wrote:Why would they just jump off like that? :(
Only way would be if something came loose to where they no longer were tight in place, OR that enough wear & tear made them sloppy to where they could no longer stay in place. Are all four on the same rail? Or randomly scattered?
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2009 Vibe GT (manual), 2009 G8Gt, 2009 Vibe GT (auto)
2014 Silverado, 2004 Vibe GT

"everything is modifiable"
tkiley
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

He said 3 on cyl 4 and one on cyl 2
jolt
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by jolt »

tkiley wrote:Unfortunately, the misfires returned, and I ended up taking it to an actual mechanic who confirmed my suspicion that rockers had indeed thrown from 4 valves. Repairs are under weigh, but I am concerned it will happen again.

Why would they just jump off like that? :(
A common cause of rocker arms being thrown off the 1.8L with a manual transmission is over revving the motor. This can be done by missing a up shift or by missing a down shift. Down shifting from 5th gear to 2nd, instead of 4th, will over rev the motor and throw rocker arms off.

Why did you have a "suspicion" about the rocker arms? Are you not telling us the whole story?
tkiley wrote:The valve timing and clearance can't change back and forth on their own.
The valve timing changes all the time on newer cars. That is part of the VVT you see on some of the valve covers. VVT = Variable Valve Timing. In the timing socket on the camshaft are hydraulic ports that the ECM controls to advance and retard the camshaft for better power at both low and high engine rpm's.
tkiley
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

I was suspicious because I had heard it had happened to other Toyota 1.8 engines, and I had personally eliminated virtually all other likelihoods apart from opening up the head cover. I am concerned it could happen again, but hopefully it was an isolated incident.

The mechanic I used is charging a fraction of what I expected to pay. It's ready to pick up tomorrow.
tkiley
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by tkiley »

Here's an example...

https://youtu.be/BLdMWkzSwXk
jolt
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Re: Misfires on all but one cylinder

Post by jolt »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLdMWkzSwXk

and a tool that can work for this job if properly modified.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Hooks-Style- ... :rk:7:pf:0

The top thing that needs to watched out for in this job is that the valve does not hit the piston or another valve when you are compressing the spring to install the rocker arm. As you compress the valve spring, the valve opens into the cylinder. If the head of the valve touches the piston or another valve, it will be bent and you will have to pull the head to replace the valve.

On a side note: I have never seen or heard of a 1.8L with a automatic transmission that had rocker arms thrown off. It has always been with a manual transmission. It does not mean that it could not happen, just that a person has to work a lot harder to get it to happen.
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