Possible oil leak

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Mark
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:26 am
Location: Cheyenne, WY

Possible oil leak

Post by Mark »

Hello Vibers, and Happy New Year!

Changing the oil on my 04 this weekend and I noticed some oil on the block just below the crank pulley. I assume that the crank seal would be the culprit, but wondering is there are other possibilities? I as best I could from above and below and didn't see anywhere else it could be coming from.

Anyone else have to replace the crank seal? And how expensive was it? Car has 166k now, so I suppose these things are bound to happen.
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circuitsmith
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Possible oil leak

Post by circuitsmith »

Make sure there's no oil above that point.
It could be running down from the valve cover, chain tensioner or timing cover.
Valve cover and tensioner are easy fixes (see the DIY section).
If it's from the timing cover or crank seal I would leave it alone unless its actually dripping on the ground.
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jolt
Posts: 945
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Possible oil leak

Post by jolt »

Clean up the area with some spray brake cleaner to get the oil off and then watch it over the next few days to see the first signs of where the oil is coming from. If it is not dripping, then do not worry about it until it does drip as it is not a cheap or easy fix to replace that seal. You can try running some of the high mileage/ older car motor oils in it as these oil are said to have rubber seal softeners in them that may help slow or stop the leak but don't aspect a miracle.
Mark
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:26 am
Location: Cheyenne, WY

Re: Possible oil leak

Post by Mark »

I couldn't spot any oil above the crank, and it's just a little bit right now. Just some oil sheen on the block below the crank. I won' t have access to the car to check it again for a few months, but it doesn't get driven a lot in between. Just the 430 or so miles each way back and forth. I didn't clean the area, just wiped it off good with a rag. We'll see when it comes back for spring break.
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lannvouivre
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Re: Possible oil leak

Post by lannvouivre »

The crank seal is actually very easy to replace, as long as you have access to a 1/2" drive impact gun and a 1/2" drive 19 mm 6-point impact socket, as well as a tool to remove the belt and the old seal. You want the 6-point 19 mm 1/2" impact socket because it will have a better grip on the fastener and if you use a non-impact socket, the socket can shatter. If you have the supercharger, the bolt may be a 12-point.

You can buy a used or refurbished electric 1/2" drive impact gun for maybe even under $100 for a cordless one, or there's one for under $70 that's corded from Harbor Freight. The seal tool is $8 from HF as well, and it's a POS but it's absolutely adequate for the crank seal. The crank seal is $10-20; I recommend Timken, SFK, or National.

You also will want some emery cloth or fine sandpaper, a rubber mallet, and some grey RTV silicone (permatex is fine and you only need a tiny bit).

How to replace the crank seal:
1. Chock rear wheels so car doesn't roll. Don't trust your E-brake for this.
2. Lift front of car at pinch weld, place a jackstand under the passenger's side frame even with the jack or just in front of it. Remove jack.
3. Grab car and try to shake it a bit to make sure it's snugly supported.
4. Remove wheel. Lug nuts will be either 19 mm or 17 mm.
5. Remove serpentine belt. Make sure you know the routing, these cars do NOT have the diagram under the hood or in the owner's manual. I don't remember the socket size for the cast-on hex head on the tensioner arm, I think it was 14, 17, or 19 mm. It needs to rotate to the right, and don't overdo it because you can snap the hex head off of the tensioner arm. You'll want a fairly low-profile and long wrench for this.
6. Use the impact gun at full power counter-clockwise with the 19 mm socket on the harmonic balancer/crank pulley bolt. You may have to sit on it for it to break loose. PULL THE TRIGGER AND CHECK ROTATION DIRECTION BEFORE YOU PUT THE GUN TO THE CRANK PULLEY BOLT.
7. After the bolt is out, grab either side of the pulley and wiggle the sides in and out. You shouldn't need a puller to remove the crank pulley. If it seems stuck, you can gently tap on the edges of the pulley's face with a rubber mallet. Don't wail on it hard, just gently hit it; if you damage it, it can damage your crankshaft because it's needed to help balance it and absorb the forces from the combustion cycle. It can also tear up the belt, but that's not as bad as losing a crank. After tapping it, try wiggling it off again. I haven't had a single Toyota need anything more than my bare hands and a rubber mallet to remove the pulley, not even the '85 Tercel that has a cast iron block, 430k miles, and an interesting amount of rust. Also try not to damage the seal, in case you have to reassemble it all and order a repair sleeve, and in case you don't want to waste the new seal while you wait.
8. Check crank pulley's base for any scoring where the seal lip sits. You may need a sleeve if there is scoring, because it will allow oil to leak out if it's severe enough. Use some emery cloth or relatively fine-grain sandpaper to smooth the sealing surface of the pulley, then clean the sealing surface off.
9. Take the seal tool (or a prybar or large flathead screwdriver) and hook it through the space between the nose of the crankshaft and the seal. Position the hook tip so that it's grabbing into the fat part of the seal. Do not hook the crank nose or the timing cover. If you damage the nose of the crank, I don't think it will actually hurt anything with it because I don't think it is a sealing surface, but you need to practice good habits and not crappy ones. If you hook the surface of the timing cover that the seal sits in, you're going to have to smooth the surface out until you can't hang a nail in the indention anymore and there's a chance that it won't be able to seal even with a film of RTV.
10. Pry that seal out. Don't put too much pressure on the timing cover; the timing cover is made of aluminum and not very thick or strong and you don't want to have to replace that because it's a huge pain with the engine in the car, and the timing cover probably isn't going to be all that cheap if you were hoping to save money doing the seal yourself.
11. Use some rubbing alcohol and a microfiber towel to wipe the inside of the timing cover flange clean. It shouldn't have any scoring, that'd be weird.
12. Clean the outside edge of the seal where it's going to be touching the timing cover, and maybe add a thin film of the grey RTV. Be careful of the spring.
13. Oil the inside of the crank seal lip where it's going to be rubbing on the crank pulley. Remain careful of the spring.
14. Turn the seal so that the lip is facing the inside of the engine. The weight of the oil will push it outward, increasing the pressure that the sealing pressure has available to help maintain the seal.
15. Gently slide the seal over the nose of the crank, still with the lip pointing inward.
16. Gently tap the edges of the seal, keeping it going inward pretty straight, until the outside edge of the seal is flush with the timing cover. Don't hit anything but the large, flat outside edge of the seal because you will probably damage it. Don't hit the crank nose because I know you can do better than that. You can use a wooden block, a large socket that fits around the edge of the seal, you can use the the flat end of a handle...pretty much anything as long as you neither drive it in too crooked, contact anything besides the thick edge of the seal, and it doesn't gouge the seal.
17. Take the crank pulley and install it so that the slot on it lines up with the key (flat rectangular projection) on the crank nose, then push it on straight. It should go on pretty easily and require no more than maybe some gentle taps with the rubber mallet. Once you have it on as far as you can drive it (should be almost all the way down with maybe 1/4" left to go at the most), thread the crank pulley bolt in as far as you can with just your fingers.
18. Run that SOB down with the impact gun at full power. Tighten it down until the gun can no longer turn it. It only needs 103 ft lb of torque, so there's no need to make this your impact gun's permanent address. If you were able to remove the bolt with the impact gun, you will certainly be able to get it back on tight enough unless your battery or air tank is low.
19. Reinstall serpentine belt. Make sure it is lined up on all of the pulleys so that it doesn't get ripped apart.
20. Start the engine. Look in the engine bay at the pulleys and belt to make sure the belt is lined up properly. Look around the crank seal and make sure it's not leaking.
21. Reinstall wheel; lug nuts need 76 ft lb.
22. Lift vehicle off jack stands, remove stands, lower vehicle back down slowly. Remove chocks.
23. I like to grab the wheels and try to shake them in and out to make sure the lug nuts are fully fastened because I am consumed by paranoia, but you can skip that step if you want and go right on to the test drive.
24. Check crank pulley area for signs of leakage again. I usually do this multiple times over the next month because sometimes leaks take their time before they show up; a poorly manufactured seal will probably take more time to leak than an improperly installed one. Badly-designed or flawed products don't help my anxiety at all, and they absolutely do happen.
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