Engine advice, ran engine without oil.

[Adamnsheana]

I have a 2004 Pontiac Vibe base model automatic. It only has 78,000 miles. I had the oil change done a little over a month ago with no issues. While driving on the freeway I heard a very faint engine knocking noise. No engine lights came on. About 20 miles later started getting louder. Pulled off the freeway and got even louder. Finally right as I came to a stop the knocking was super loud and then the car stalled, and oil light came on. Checked the oil and it was bone dry. Next day out oil in it and it started right up but with the loud knocking noise. Car drives around the block but not sure what to do.

Do I just need to find a engine from a wrecked car and replace it? Or is there any chance I can save this engine, cause it has such low miles?

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[jayoldschool]

If you had pulled over at the first light noise, you might have saved it. Another 20 miles? It's toast. The only "saving" for that engine is to rebuild it. At a minimum, it will need crank bearings, but everything will need to be checked. Just pick up a good used engine at a yard, get a warranty, and drop it in.

[joatmon]

You said you "had the oil change done" a month ago, a logical assumption is that it was not done well. Don't know how many miles you've put on since the oil change or if there are any signs of oil leaks, but if it was done by some business, you may be able to find a way to hold them liable for the damage. Either it leaked out or they didn't put any back in. It may have happened suddenly, vibration could have loosened an under tightened drain plug or the filter.

My first vibe had an oil loss issue, which by the timw the engine was over 250K miles it was only about a quart every 1500 miles. A 2004 with only 78k miles sounds like you don't drive it much, to lose all measurable oil in a month is radically worse than what we here have experienced in these engines.

An engine from a wreck should be fine, lots of them out there from the vibe, matrix and corolla fleet. Some junkyards will do the swap for a reasonable cost. Get some warranty on the new one.I'd probably replace rather than rebuild

It is a reminder to periodically check your oil level no matter who does the oil change. Especially true in my case, since I change it myself

[samsonite]

Was it the shops fault the engine ran out of oil? Was the plug loose?

Also recommend getting a junk yard engine out of a crashed vibe/matrix with lower miles. If you call around to a bunch of shops you can usually find a small shop that will do the swap for a reasonable price. Just had a tranny swap done for $500

[triz]

It's toast. The 1zz engines don't rebuild well. My advice get a low mileage engine and swap it.

[jayoldschool]

It's not the shop's fault, look at how long it ran. If you don't check your oil, it's not someone else's fault. On my car, the oil sender failed, allowing the oil to leak, rapidly, when the car was running. No leak when sitting. This went for two days. One more day, and my car would have run dry. I caught it in time.

[samsonite]

It's not the shop's fault, look at how long it ran. If you don't check your oil, it's not someone else's fault. On my car, the oil sender failed, allowing the oil to leak, rapidly, when the car was running. No leak when sitting. This went for two days. One more day, and my car would have run dry. I caught it in time.

How do you know it's not the shops fault? One time the rapid oil bozo's didn't tighten my Dads oil plug enough. Walked out to his car the next day to go to work and there was oil all over the ground. Everything had leaked out. He made them drive to his house and clean up the mess

[jayoldschool]

The answer's in your post: it was the next day for your dad, not a month later.

[lannvouivre]

It would be really, really hard to prove the shop was negligent at this point. If you had any oil spots where you were parking your car, you should have taken note of them. 30 days is a pretty long time for anything to vibrate out suddenly with no warning.

Although you could possibly rebuild it, you'd have to check everything and have all the oil galleries in every part flushed clean, and honestly you'd probably need a replacement crankshaft, all new bearings, probably new piston rings if not oversized pistons, overbore, and hone, possibly new valve shims/lifter buckets, possibly new cams, probably replace your VVT actuator, replace the timing tensioner. You might even have damaged the crank bores on the connecting rods.

[jolt]

The big question is not who is at fault; but where did the oil go? Someone must have seen it. On the ground, in the air (smoke), all over the back of the car (leak), it just did not disappear. That does not matter at this point, the engine is gone. To do a major overhaul on that engine with pulling it and other machining cost to get it all done would be in the $3,000 range before you got all back and running. The car is 12 years old and not worth spending that kind of money on. Go get yourself a used engine from a salvage yard. At would also be the quickest way to get the car going again. Check your oil level. Once you hear noise from low oil pressure, it is to late, the damage is already done.

[joatmon]

This isn't the first time someone has reported engine failure due to no oil with no warning lights. Isn't there supposed to be some oil pressure monitoring, and why doesn't it let a driver know when such an engine killing condition exists?

[circuitsmith]

The oil pressure light triggers at a very low pressure, typically <10psi, to avoid false trigger at idle with hot thin oil.
That's not enough pressure to protect when cruising at 2500rpm.

Edit: I see the 1zzfe Service spec minimum oil pressure is 4.3psi at idle, 43-78psi at 3000rpm.

[blue_can]

Hard to believe that all the oil came out in one go without being noticed - smoke or big puddles, dribbling oil along the road etc. The shop may well have been responsible - maybe cracked something which caused a slow leak over a month. But proving that would be near to impossible. I'm also curious about the state of the drain plug, evidence of where the oil may have leaked etc. Leaking oil under the engine will tend to spray all over making it obvious there is an issue.

I found oil around the engine oil pan on another vehicle I own. After much hunting it turned out to be oil from the ac compressor which had developed a leak and was spraying oil on to the engine oil pan.

I've heard stories of quick oil change places not putting on the drain plug correctly and causing engine damage in people's cars. So I would not rule out the shop.

But as the others have said at this stage it is probably easier to replace than trying to rebuild.

[kumquat]

Keep driving it until it fails completely.

[tpollauf]

We need an update from the original poster as to the fate of this Vibe. If it is truly drivable they I agree with KQ and drive it till it dies ... BUT have a backup plan to kick in immediately if/when that day comes. Was the oil conventional or Synthetic? Although severe damage was likely done already, Synthetic would have prolonged internal damage. Need more info to continue advise/opinions.

[lannvouivre]

If it is truly drivable they I agree with KQ and drive it till it dies ... BUT have a backup plan to kick in immediately if/when that day comes.

Removal takes about 6 hours, re-installation takes about 6 hours. So remember that if it goes down, you need at least two days. You're looking at about $1200 for labor, by the way.

I think you might be able to save the bare head, the block if the mains didn't spin, the oil pan, and the valve covers. If the crank didn't get scored up, you can also save that. The cams don't really have bearing material to protect their lobes, and I'm not sure if their journals have anything either as it seems any bearing material would have to be integrated. If you have time and resources, you might be able to rebuild this.

Just for kicks, I can give you a quick rundown on what you'll need done.

Pistons are $200 for a set of good .5mm overbore OEM-quality
Bearings are about $70 for a full set on the crank.
A "new" crank is $150-600.
A bare block+main cap assembly is about $250.
Cylinder overbore (assuming mains didn't spin) is like $50 depending on the shop.
Head is $100-500 depending on how many parts are on it.
VVT actuator is like $100 new, which is the only way you really want it.
Tensioner for timing chain is $20.
Chain is $100-150.
Guides are I think like $50 apiece.