Cold Weather Startup Noise

1.8-liter VVTL-i (2ZZ-GE) and VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) engine, transmission, exhaust, intake, and performance tuning discussions
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Caretaker

Cold Weather Startup Noise

Post by Caretaker »

I have been posting for years that the second generation Vibe has unusually noisy valve tappet, especially when the engine is cold. During this past week, in 20 degree (F) morning temperatures, I have been getting a metal grinding noise upon startup which continues for about 5 miles until the car is fully warmed up. The noise sounds like I am doing damage to the engine. At first, I checked the oil level and put about a quart of oil in, since these Corolla engines all burn oil. I am nearing my oil change interval so a quart is totally normal for my car. The added oil did not affect the noise upon the next cold air startup. I do not believe the noise is the bendix gear noise of a failing starter since it was just replaced a year or so ago, and given that the noise continues for many miles after the car is started and moving on the street. At the time GM replaced my Denso starter, they first had replaced the timing gear actuator. This is the first part I thought might be causing the noise. I am now coming to you to determine if a failing water pump would also cause such a noise for up to 5 miles until the car reaches normal operating temperature?
In summary, the metalic noise sounds like VERY loud valve tappet and diminishes as the car reaches normal operating temperature. Filling the crankcase with one quart of oil did not stop the noise. The noise is evident the moment the car is started and is idling and does not seem to get louder as you engage the transmission and run the car faster. As the car warms, the noise is less evident at a stop/idle and is made loud again when stepping on the gas and going faster. I'm taking the car to my mechanic today so he can start it in the cold tomorrow morning. I just wanted to get your thoughts as well. I know that the Vibe's intake/exhaust valves are not supposed to be adjusted. Nonetheless, given how noisy the valves are on these cars, I can't dismiss it either. Thoughts?
Last edited by Caretaker on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
gtv237
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 6:21 pm

Re: Cold Weather Startup Noise

Post by gtv237 »

Could you get a video? The VVT controller is usually responsible for this but it goes away after a couple seconds.
sideshowalan
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:27 am

Re: Cold Weather Startup Noise

Post by sideshowalan »

Bad water pump noise wouldn't go away, they sound like a low growling.
2008 Pontiac Vibe
2008 Toyota Sienna XLE
(Former 2003 5-speed Vibe owner)
Caretaker

Re: Cold Weather Startup Noise

Post by Caretaker »

Survey says: DING: It was the water pump. Don't be fooled by the fact that normally it is the older generation Corollas that only have this problem. At 89,000 miles, mine was making what appeared to be a heat shield rattle until the car reached normal operating temperature. A water pump that is failing typically keeps making noises and is not affected by the warming coolant. My mechanic did not believe me initially, but I turned out to be right. When he could not hear the noise I was describing for over a week, even after a 15 degree morning startup, he hand turned the spindle after removing my serpentine belt. Alas, the metal on metal noise was evident. The bearing inside the spindle must have been failing. With the new water pump installed, coupled with my Pirelli tires, the car is incredibly quiet tonight. No leaks and no constant noise was apparent; just a water pump that decided that it was time to die.
gtv237
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 6:21 pm

Re: Cold Weather Startup Noise

Post by gtv237 »

Caretaker wrote:Survey says: DING: It was the water pump. Don't be fooled by the fact that normally it is the older generation Corollas that only have this problem. At 89,000 miles, mine was making what appeared to be a heat shield rattle until the car reached normal operating temperature. A water pump that is failing typically keeps making noises and is not affected by the warming coolant. My mechanic did not believe me initially, but I turned out to be right. When he could not hear the noise I was describing for over a week, even after a 15 degree morning startup, he hand turned the spindle after removing my serpentine belt. Alas, the metal on metal noise was evident. The bearing inside the spindle must have been failing. With the new water pump installed, coupled with my Pirelli tires, the car is incredibly quiet tonight. No leaks and no constant noise was apparent; just a water pump that decided that it was time to die.
That is certainly a possibility as well. I've done several water pumps on even low mileage 2ZR-FE motors.
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