We have LIFTOFF !

1.8-liter VVTL-i (2ZZ-GE) and VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) engine, transmission, exhaust, intake, and performance tuning discussions
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lobi
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We have LIFTOFF !

Post by lobi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:41 pm

Weee, just took her for a test spin and got the thrill if hitting 'lift' for the first time.
Slow down dude, who? what?

Hi, I've been lurking here for a while and finally registered. I bought my third Vibe about a week ago, my first GT. Had a 5-speed base 2005 for my first and a 2003 5-speed base for my second Vibe. Liked em both. Had to put a clutch in the 05 right away and replaced a trashed 5-speed in the 03 base. Finally found a GT at a reasonable price. Needs plenty but it is a running and driving 03 GT. Tires were so bald that they looked like balloons. Ran but idle was all over the place between 800 and 3000 rpm. Has a crashed up right front corner (bumper, fender, and headlight needed) but I'm driving it as is for now.
Did a lot of late night reading here on genvibe , in bed on the cell phone, about lift n such. I had already made my 6-speed happy with new Amsoil and the engine got synthetic as well. Today I finally tore into it a bit. Cleaned the lift oil screen. It was horrendous. I'll try to put pics up. Cleaned the idle air control valve and the throttle body. TB to intake got a new gasket as well. Mass air flow sensor looked almost as bad as the oil screen, cleaned that too. I did not get to the other side to clean the vvt oil screen. Another time since requires moving the alternator etc. The crud on the lift oil screen was pretty tough stuff. Lots of carb spray and brushing. The pics tell all.

Question for GT guys, does your lift add a lot more kick than when vvt kicks in at 4k? I'm pretty sure the vvt is working but it isn't a big pull like lift kicking in. Maybe my vvt isn't doing what it should. I'll be addressing that oil screen soon anyways but just wondered.

I was a grinning fool screaming up and down the backroad when lift kicked in. Hit lift 4 times and brought her home to give her a well deserved rest.
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I spent most of my life hunting and fishing, the rest I just wasted.

gtv237
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by gtv237 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:43 pm

What in the world is lift..?

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lobi
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by lobi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:52 pm

sorry, just couldn't help myself...
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I spent most of my life hunting and fishing, the rest I just wasted.

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lobi
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by lobi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:58 pm

gtv237, please forgive me for that previous post. I'm nothing but trouble (according to my wife).

The GT's had, in addition to variable valve timing, variable lift as well that kicked in at higher rpm. The Yamaha designed head would engage a higher/longer lift on the valves if certain parameters were met. On my '03 it requires 6200 rpm, '04+ needed 6500 rpm I think. When it kicks in it jumps the power up considerably. The 03 was rated at 180 horsepower vs the 130 hp base engine. AWD was a little below the 130 due to exhaust restrictions and subsequent year GT's dropped a little as well with a different rating.
GT Vibe owners live for hitting 'lift'
I spent most of my life hunting and fishing, the rest I just wasted.

gtv237
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by gtv237 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:48 pm

Very interesting. What is the redline? Seems odd to have a power boost right before a shift.

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lobi
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by lobi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:04 pm

gtv237 wrote:Very interesting. What is the redline? Seems odd to have a power boost right before a shift.
Power boost is way before the shift point if you want to run it. It has an 8200 rpm red-line (fuel cut off) I think. It doesn't make 180 horse power until 7600 rpm. It is a high rpm loving (Yamaha style) cylinder head. Kinda freaks people out who have no idea what you got or what you can do with it. I was riding in a friends GT a couple of years ago and we were pulling his little aluminum fishing boat. I asked if this little vibe had enough power to even tow a boat.
He said "Power? Watch this" then he down shifted from 4th or 5th to 2nd gear and the engine was screaming and we were launching forward.
Fun little buggies.
I spent most of my life hunting and fishing, the rest I just wasted.

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tpollauf
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by tpollauf » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:15 pm

gtv237 wrote:What in the world is lift..?
Don't feel bad .... I had no idea what it was either until I became a Vibe owner :lol: Now if only our 2.4L GT engines has special powers like that, the driving world would be in serious trouble :o My fuel economy would be horrendous. They say it's almost as good as having an orgasim :o
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2014 Silverado, 2004 Vibe GT, 2003 Vibe GT (project car)

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trb
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by trb » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:32 pm

Congrats on joining the "Lift" club! :D I admit, it is fun to drive, especially when those front tires break loose as the HP peaks and the engine screams. Regarding your comment, Tim, I don't think it really compares, but it is close enough that you want to do it again, and again, and again.... :lol:
Thomas
the "Mustang Guy"
1987 5.0 LX Mustang
2016 Mustang GT - current daily
2004 Satellite Vibe &
2009 Red Vibe GT -twin's cars
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Salsa Guy
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by Salsa Guy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:45 am

I had the same issue with my filter after buying 03 Vibe GT. Didn't think it hit Lift in 10 years. It took me about 6 months to get all the sludge out of the engine so the filter wouldn't clog.

Lift is AWESOME! Welcome to the club. Oh fuel cut off is about 8300 Rpms.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop

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lobi
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by lobi » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:05 am

tpollauf wrote:
gtv237 wrote:What in the world is lift..?
They say it's almost as good as having an orgasim :o
Ha, if that was true I'd never get out of the car till I lost my license from too many tickets.

So Salsa, you think I should be watching for lift to quit again and assume filter again? This car certainly lacked good maintenance before I got it. I'll be willing to bet a donut that the previous owner knew nothing about lift. She's purring happy as of now with cleaning and all new synthetics. Dropped to third gear today on the freeway at just under 75mph (I think) and was just under lift. Hit lift at 6200 and ran it up to just a hair over 8k. Wanted to see if shift into fourth kept rpm above 6200 to keep it in lift. Pretty sure it did.
I spent most of my life hunting and fishing, the rest I just wasted.

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ImUrOBGYN
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by ImUrOBGYN » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:28 am

lobi wrote:
tpollauf wrote:
gtv237 wrote:What in the world is lift..?
They say it's almost as good as having an orgasim :o
Ha, if that was true I'd never get out of the car till I lost my license from too many tickets.

So Salsa, you think I should be watching for lift to quit again and assume filter again? This car certainly lacked good maintenance before I got it. I'll be willing to bet a donut that the previous owner knew nothing about lift. She's purring happy as of now with cleaning and all new synthetics. Dropped to third gear today on the freeway at just under 75mph (I think) and was just under lift. Hit lift at 6200 and ran it up to just a hair over 8k. Wanted to see if shift into fourth kept rpm above 6200 to keep it in lift. Pretty sure it did.
I have an 03 GT on the stock aluminum 16's. I can land in lift on every single shift. The 1st to 2nd is, of course, the trickiest but can be done with the proper combination of hand speed and rev matching. With a low inertia flywheel and a high revving motor, momentum is HUGE. If you can launch the car into lift and hold through all gears you'll be shocked just how much faster the car will be, to both your "(removed)" times and actual times at a track.

This is the single, biggest reason why I refuse to run a larger diameter wheel than what's on there. Even though it would look better aesthetically, it would effectively lower the final drive making it even harder to land in lift between shifts.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
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Salsa Guy
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by Salsa Guy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:52 am

Yea the Lift will sputter sometimes or not work and then it's time to clean it. It's was clean about 4 times, the last time I pulled it for giggles and grins and it was clean. There's a code but not sure what it is, P169x or something like that. You may want to check the VVti filter also.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop

trdVibe
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by trdVibe » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:58 pm

gtv237 wrote:What in the world is lift..?
Basically Toyota's use of Honda VTEC by using oil pressure to switch the engine over to much larger camshaft lobes but also still integrating their VVT.
I have a 1992 Acura Integra GSR B17 engine that has VTEC from 5800(5000 if i use the VTEC tuner) - 8250rpm and my Vibe GT 6200 - 8300rpm is a much more noticeable kick in the pants due to the VVT being used in conjunction with the VTEC. Both cars get insanely loud in "lift" with the SRI and are a blast to drive. I really wish Toyota would use VVTLi on US spec engines more, its such an amazing way to make power without sacrificing economy that comes with a camshaft swap on other engines. Now if only there was a cheap and easy way to change the "lift" engagement and raise the fuel cut on these Toyota ECU's.
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Salsa Guy
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by Salsa Guy » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:07 pm

^^Very True

Lift is like s e x but only different.
05 Matrix XR 4WD and 03 Vibe GT
"If you want Government to solve your problems, then you are the problem!" BMSR
Trix MODS: SRI w/ AEM filter, Vibrant/Magnaflow Cat-back, Alutec Lightweight Crank Pulley
GT MODS: Cosmo SRI, DRL, Auto Stop

troyguitar
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Re: We have LIFTOFF !

Post by troyguitar » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:07 am

ImUrOBGYN wrote:I have an 03 GT on the stock aluminum 16's. I can land in lift on every single shift. The 1st to 2nd is, of course, the trickiest but can be done with the proper combination of hand speed and rev matching. With a low inertia flywheel and a high revving motor, momentum is HUGE. If you can launch the car into lift and hold through all gears you'll be shocked just how much faster the car will be, to both your "(removed)" times and actual times at a track.

This is the single, biggest reason why I refuse to run a larger diameter wheel than what's on there. Even though it would look better aesthetically, it would effectively lower the final drive making it even harder to land in lift between shifts.
First: Final drive and tire size have absolutely nothing to do with RPM change from one gear to the next. The only thing that affects the relative drop is the difference between the two gear ratios. For example, 1st gear is 3.17 and 2nd gear is 2.05. If you shift from 1st to 2nd instantaneously at 10000 RPM, your new RPM is 10000*2.05/3.17 = 6469 RPM. If you put a 15" tall tire and a 10:1 final drive on the car and shift at 10000 RPM from 1st to 2nd instantaneously you still end up at 6469 RPM.

Second: It is physically impossible to land every shift in lift on a stock motor. Depending on who you ask, stock rev limit is between 8200 and 8400. Let's assume it's 8400 to give your claim a fighting chance. Let's also assume that you are so skilled that you can shift instantaneously without losing any speed whatsoever and you can do that instant shift precisely at the rev limit. Your 03 lift engagement point is 6200 RPM. Your gear ratios are 3.17, 2.05, 1.48, 1.17, 0.92, and 0.73 for 1st through 6th.

A perfect 8400 RPM shift from 1st to 2nd lands you at 8400*2.05/3.17 = 5432 RPM. That's nearly 800 RPM short of staying in lift - and in reality you will not shift at exactly 8400 nor will you lose zero speed in the process.

A perfect 2nd to 3rd shift lands you at 8400*1.48/2.05 = 6064 RPM. Again short of staying in lift...

3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 all land at 66xx RPM with perfect redline shifts. Those are the only possible times you can stay in lift after shifting - all at highly illegal speeds.

What does it take to actually stay in lift during shifts at legal speeds (1-2 and 2-3 shifts)? Aftermarket beefed up valvesprings and a piggyback or standalone engine management system. By increasing the rev limit to 9000 and decreasing the lift point to 5800 it becomes theoretically possible to stay in lift after all shifts. A 9000 RPM shift into 2nd lands you at 5820 RPM, just into your newly lowered lift zone. (2-3 lands you at 6498, well into lift)
2005 Vibe GT
2004 Z06

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