Super black carbon buildup in tailpipe

[heathersharmony]

I am a new Vibe owner of a 2003 AWD automatic with 97000 miles and when researching reviews on it I found many complaints about engine problems and excessive burning of oil. So, I went and checked my tailpipe and ran my finger in it and it came out pitch black. My 2001 Chevy tracker with 120000 miles has hardly a smidge compared to it. Is this normal or should I be concerned? Is there anything I should get serviced on it now to prevent engine trouble later? Thanks for any help and I hope I posted this in the right place Heather in Northern Michigan

[mac99d]

Do you need to add a little oil all the time? If you are then maybe that is your problem. Another thing that can create lots of black soot is if the engine is running rich. Is the check Eng light on.

[heathersharmony]

Just got the car so don't know about having to add oil. No check engine light, thank goodness. I'll keep a close eye on the oil.

[Charles (in GA)]

It sorta sounds like your car may be a victim of the low oil level problem.In this thread http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=45577 I document the installation of a new dipstick for the base Vibe engine, that has different markings that raise the oil level by one half quart. Others here provided the basic information and I took it and ran with it. It seems that the engine's piston skirts run too hot, and the oil control ring becomes coked with oil and sticks, unable to do its job of scraping the cylinder walls of excess oil. Raising the oil level allows more oil to flood the bottom of the piston, cooling it and preventing the ring coking.One Toyota service letter documents the new and improved dipstick.....http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...8.pdfBut this doesn't explain why the higher oil level is needed. The explanation is found in this this Toyota letter........... http://www.scribd.com/doc/4793...ptionWhile this letter does not specifically mention the Matrix, it does cover vehicles with the 1ZZ engine, including the Corolla, which is the same mechanicals underneath as the Matrix and Vibe, and this letter does cover the time period (2000 to mid 2004) that your vehicle falls into.Its interesting that GM never attempted to correct the problems that Toyota did, via Service Letters. Guess they are hoping the cars will simply go away.You will have to get a handle on your oil consumption and gas mileage before you will know what is causing the sooted tailpipe.Also be aware, the elevated oil level does cause a slight decrease in gas mileage due to the crank whipping the oil. This I found during my tests of gas mileage with both the high and low oil levels.I had to establish a spread sheet to track gas mileage, as the Vibe is so difficult to fill the same, consistently.If I can figure out how to create a blank copy of it, I will post the file here. It is Excel 2010.Charles

[heathersharmony]

Thank you soooo much for this info! I will order a new dipstick today. Is it also a good idea to use the oil they recommend? I was going to use Valvoline Synthetic blend like I use with my Tracker which is 125000 and I drive it 420 miles a week on my mail route. Do you think it would be a good idea to have my pistons and rings checked for buildup?Thanks!Heather

[sideshowalan]

I Agree with the oil problems. Most likely the previous owner went too long between changes. Did you purchase it private party or from a dealer? There's no way to really be sure unless you can contact the previous owner.

[zaxellord]

So, 2003-2004 Vibes should be avoided, due to this oil issue?

[Charles (in GA)]

Quote »So, 2003-2004 Vibes should be avoided, due to this oil issue?I would say it all depends on the mileage on the engine, type of oil run in it, If and when the new dipstick was installed, how the car was operated, and several more.I bought a '04 base model. It had 50K mi on it. When I saw the improved dipstick info, I bought it, ran it 5000 mi, pulled it back out and put the old one in for a couple of tank fulls of gas, saw that it did affect mileage (about a half mpg I think), but then found out about the Gen7_oil_consumption letter and after seeing it, decided to stop the gas mileage test and reinstall the "new" dipstick and maintain the higher oil level.I run Amsoil full synthetic. I don't think you can get the stuff to coke up, no matter how hot you get it. The blends are just that, blends of conventional oils blended with synthetic, how well it works, I'm not sure.KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW, I would have to look real hard at a '03/'05 model if it were pushing 100K or more.Quite frankly, I didn't realize Toyota had so many design issues. I'm just used to a car running and running and given regular maintenance, and a little TLC, nothing weird ever crops up.Charles

[Charles (in GA)]

Quote, originally posted by heathersharmony »Do you think it would be a good idea to have my pistons and rings checked for buildup?Thanks!HeatherI would first put some miles on it, to get a real idea of oil consumption and gas mileage. If your oil consumption is reasonable, say 1½ qts or less in 5000 mi, I would not do anything. If it proves to be sucking oil, then you will need to pull the head and pan and get the pistons out to see what is going on.I've attached my gas mileage spreadsheet. I left a few entries so you can see how it works. To delete them, just click on the top most date and hold the left click while you scroll down to the bottom most date and all the way to the right, then release and hit Delete and the spread sheet data will be cleared. The columns are formatted thru line 150. You can reformat the date if you don't like the way I did it. The average in the top LH corner is a mathematical average of all of the gallons consumed and the miles driven done by totaling the two columns involved and dividing. At the top on the far right out of view unless you scroll over to it, is a MEDIAN average which done by arraying all the individual gas mileage numbers from high to low and picking the one in the middle or averaging the two in the middle if an even number of entries. You will probably need to change the printer settings, I assume mine carried over, not sure how to get rid of them.Not sure why it says "read only" at the top after the file name, it appears that you can make entries in it, edit, delete, etc. BE SURE AND SAVE or SAVE AS the spreadsheet, changing the name if you so desire. I know very little about Excel as I rarely have to mess with a spreadsheet. I need to add to this, Line 5 of the spread sheet, DOES NOT calculate into the gas mileage. You would get an artificially low mileage if it did Make your first entry on line 5 and then, beginning with line 6 it will take the miles driven on line 6 (since the fillup on line 5) and divide by the gallons of the fillup on line 6 to get an accurate mileage. At that point, the MPG for that fillup and the Average MPG will be the same. Continue making entries. The car is (to me) difficult to fill consistently and that is why I did the spread sheet, the mileage was all over the map and I needed some good hard numbers to see how the car was doing.If for some reason, you do not fill the tank, still make an entry for that, with the gallons and miles driven. The MPG will be wrong, but the next fillup, the Average MPG again becomes accurate, as it is still the total miles driven divided by the total gallons consumed....... You just need it full in the end.Charles

Attached files PontiacVibegasmileagespreadsheet.xlsx (15.5 KB) 

[circuitsmith]

Quote, originally posted by zaxellord »So, 2003-2004 Vibes should be avoided, due to this oil issue?Yes, and also weak 5-speed manual transmissions.

[heathersharmony]

Thanks Charles for all the info. I ordered a new dipstick and will get it on Monday. I think they thought I was crazy for ordering it for my Vibe though

[zaxellord]

Thanks so much, Charles and circuitsmith for the heads up.

[heathersharmony]

I have a question regarding the bulletin by Toyota on why more oil was needed. Why isnt the Matrix mentioned when that is the sister car to the Vibe?

[Charles (in GA)]

Quote, originally posted by heathersharmony »I have a question regarding the bulletin by Toyota on why more oil was needed. Why isnt the Matrix mentioned when that is the sister car to the Vibe?I wondered the same thing. Cannot give you a good answer. Its apparent that 1ZZ engines of this time period were affected, and the new dipstick bulletin DOES apply to the Matrix of these years, yet they ignore the Matrix in the Oil Consumption bulletin, even though it is pretty well known that Matrix and Vibe models also suffered this malady to some extent.Put the new dipstick in, keep the oil level up, and keep close track of consumption, then go from there.Charles

[SWC2003Vibe]

So how did it end? Did the upgraded oil dipstick make a difference?