Replace PCM or trade it in?

[musicmanmu]

Well, I've posted recently about my 09 Vibe GT and the check engine light.Today, the dealer told me the entire PCM needs to be replaced. Going to cost $1,100 or so. This is the first major problem I've had with the car. I drive a lot of highway miles for work and currently have 127,900 miles on it.Struggling with wether or not I should replace the PCM and keep the car (I won't have my loan paid off until Dec 2013), or trade it in (trade in value is approx equal to my loan balance, so I'd about break even).Looking for advice from any folks here who have had a similar issue, or just has more knowledge about cars than me.Thanks for your help!

[keithvibe]

Dealer is very high. The part brand new on eBay is 300bucks. 800 bucks in labor for a 30min job. Run. Run nowhttp://item.mobileweb.ebay.com...01596

[musicmanmu]

Ugh...why am I not surprised? Should I price other dealers and independent shops?

[musicmanmu]

I called another shop and they told me it'd cost them 800-1000 bucks for the PCM, and wouldnt put in a PCM I brought in on my own. Ugh.

[vibedrivermatt]

Sorry to hear about the PCM. I know its a bit risky but you could try to get a used PCM online. The only problem getting one of these could be replacing the bad part with another bad one. I assume its better to get a hold of a new one if possible. The dealership says the part will cost that much because of a crazy mark-up. Onetime I was trying to buy some very basic front brake parts (little rubber boots, bushings and brake clips) from a toyota dealer for the 09 vibe. They said the part would cost something like $300. The parts guy at the dealership was actually pretty cool and told me where an import autoparts store was where I got the brake parts $15. I've found the instructions for replacing the PCM in the 09 vibe service manuals. Its looks very easy. The only thing Im unsure of is the final step where it instructs you to program your cars VIN into the replacement module. This requires special programming tools that the dealership has. If you get as used module it should be fine because you'll PCM will just think that your car is the last car it was in. I'm not sure a brand new one will or will not have a VIN programmed in it so it might have to get a VIN programmed by someone.

[trb]

That is highway robbery! Insane. Reminds me of the ABS module that went out on our Yukon. Going rate to replace it at the dealer was about $1,500. At least we could drive it no problem with it out. I found a place online that repairs them for less than $175. If it were me, I'd just buy a used one and hook it up yourself. Can't be too hard to do, and the plugs only attach one way so it's not like you could hook it up wrong. Maybe pull yours out to confirm the part number first, that way you know how to get to it and everything. Looks like used ones on http://www.car-part.com run $100-200 or so.

[musicmanmu]

Yes, it is a ridiculous price, but I'm not surprised. This is how dealerships operate. I definitely don't feel confident enough to attempt to replace it myself. Not sure if there are any shops in the area that have the expertise (other than dealerships and Firestone) to perform the work.If I did get it done, at least getting raped by the dealer would give me peace of mind should something continue to be wrong with it.My other question to you fine folks is - SHOULD I even look t get it replaced at all? Or should I consider getting rid of it? Like I said, the car runs great and is fine otherwise, and I don't want to get rid of it, but would a malfunction like this be a precursor to further problems? That will help me greatly with my decision.Thanks!

[trb]

I don't see how it could relate to other problems. It is kind of like a hard drive crashing on a PC. It starts to give you errors and notices, and then one day it stops working. Everything else on the PC is working OK, but because the HD is dead, the PC is useless. Get a new HD and load it up then it is all working again.I'll look at mine and see how hard it is to get to. I can't imagine it taking any skills at all to change it, maybe just a few sockets or screwdrivers. I'm sure you can find someone that can install it if you have no desire to try.

[keithvibe]

The auction I listed was for a brand new one. Do a eBay search and ask the sellers if they offerProgramming for your car at an additional fee so all you need to is unplug it and plug in the new one. Ask your friends on facebook if they know anyone in your area that could help program it. Installing it is easier than putting in a cold air intake.

[musicmanmu]

Thanks for the info, guys. I appreciate it I figured I'd try the dealership in the town where I work, since it's right down the street. I called them and didn't give them any info - just told them my check engine and VSC lights are on. They'll look at it Monday. I'm curious to see if they can fix it, or if they have another opinion besides it needs to be replaced. If that doesn't pan out, I'll have to figure something else out.

[vibenvy]

Sorry to hear you're having all these issues.Like everyone else said, I would get a brand new PCM online and install it myself or find someone who could install it for a fair price.It will be interesting to see if the second dealer comes up with a different diagnosis.Keep us updated!

[zaxellord]

Quote, originally posted by musicmanmu »Yes, it is a ridiculous price, but I'm not surprised. This is how dealerships operate. I definitely don't feel confident enough to attempt to replace it myself. Not sure if there are any shops in the area that have the expertise (other than dealerships and Firestone) to perform the work.If I did get it done, at least getting raped by the dealer would give me peace of mind should something continue to be wrong with it.My other question to you fine folks is - SHOULD I even look t get it replaced at all? Or should I consider getting rid of it? Like I said, the car runs great and is fine otherwise, and I don't want to get rid of it, but would a malfunction like this be a precursor to further problems? That will help me greatly with my decision.Thanks!I guess you'll be "bending over" if you want to keep this car, sorry. Since you still owe on it, it makes sense to fix it and enjoy it (Vibe is still a fine car) Besides, the dealership will put you in their database so that you can receive coupons and other money saving offers from the dealership

[trb]

I just noticed Matt's comments on programming the VIN. I bet that is just so when anyone hooks up the OBDII port to a computer, it will automatically display the correct VIN. I can't imagine there would be any special programming needed to operate the car especially if you get a PCM for a Vibe 2.4 GT automatic. Not like there are a lot of options on the car that would use the computer to control. They all have ABS, stability control, etc. But it is your money. I guess I'm too much of a beancounter to pay a penny more than I have to in order to get my cars running, if I can avoid it. I've only paid for major mechanical work a few times, auto trans rebuild, timing chain replacement, and I bought a new manual trans for my Mustang & paid to have it installed only because I was too busy with school and work and no other car to drive. Worst case scenario as I see it with a new PCM, I bet the car runs fine and no check engine light, just the wrong VIN when you take it in for service. And then the dealer can reflash the PCM with the new VIN.It would be worth it to ask the sellers about the VIN and if it NEEDS any programming before using it.I would also be curious to know what the OBDII codes it is showing are.

[jake75]

Do you wonder what caused that PCM to fail? Could it be an electrical issue? If you put in a new/used pcm will ti be destroyed as well?

[jimincalif]

Dealers are quick to tell you expensive parts are bad when you are out of warranty.Just for grins, go to an Autozone or maybe another auto parts store and get them to read and give you the CEL code. If you do need a new one, agree buy one online and swap yourself or find someone to help.

[musicmanmu]

Don't know why I didn't think of it before. Going to O'Reilly's at lunch and will have them read the code. Will report back.Thanks for all the help and advice!

[Salsa Guy]

If you buy a new/used PCM off ebay or wherever I pretty sure you'll need to flash the VIN into the new PCM otherwise it won't run. Most dealership will only charge between $100-$200. So basically you'll need to drive the car to the Dealership, turn it off, disconnect the battery, remove the old PCM, install the new PCM, reconnect the battery, go inside tell the what you need (make an appointment first), they should be able to walk out with their computer hook it up OBDII port and reflash the your VIN into the new ECU. Start the car and see if it works. If not don't pay them and put the old PCM back in.

[musicmanmu]

Well, went to the auto parts store and had it read. The code that came up was P0793:Intermediate Shaft Speed Sensor AFrom what I read online, this corresponds to why I have been feeling intermittent sluggishness sometimes when driving from a stop, as if it doesn't want to kick into gear.My question is, does this code mean my PCM is shot? I'd like to think the dealership isn't try to screw me.Monday I have an appt. with another dealership. Should I tell them about this code or just let them do their thing?

[trb]

That sounds more like it. I would have expected some kind of PCM failure, limp home mode code if the PCM was bad. Or a totally dead car like when the PCM went out on my son's 06.Now you have some info to go on. I'd just take it to the other dealer and let them know what you found out. Then you are going in as an informed customer and not just someone off the street. They will have to explain it to you if they find something else, not just " Pay $1,000 and we'll fix it". It could just be a loose wire or something.

[trb]

You probably saw this one if you did a Google search, but this guy has the same code on his 09 XRS and has shifting problems. Looks like Toyota has a TSB on a possible cause in some vehicles with a certain transmission. Might help to take this info with you.http://www.toyotanation.com/fo....html

[musicmanmu]

Great advice. That's exactly what I will do.If this turns out to be the dealer trying to shaft me, I will cease doing business with them.I'll let you know what happens with the other dealer Monday.

[jimincalif]

Good job and as trb says, you've got some info to go on now. I agree with him too about the limp home mode or just a dead car. Let us know what dealer #2 says. Good luck.

[musicmanmu]

Well, I brought it to the other dealer this morning. They told me that the sensor in question (the one that corresponded to the code when I had it read) was the problem. They ordered one and should have it by Friday. It'll cost about $150 + labor.I hope this fixes the problem! If it does, I think I'll have a word with my main dealership.interestingly, I read a column by Click & Clack (Car Talk) Sunday talking about a similar problem, and they wrote that dealers will often immediately jump to the conclusion that the entire PCM needs replacing when in fact just a single sensor is at fault.Thanks to everyone for their advice!

[Persephone]

Definitely have a word with them. I love to watch them squirm when you've caught them trying to screw you over.Good luck!!

[Salsa Guy]

Well that's good news. Yea making them squirm is always fun.

[headcold]

There was a recall for the PCM on 03-08 Vibes, I don't know if your PCM has a similar issuehttp://gmauthority.com/blog/20...ecall/I had mine replaced by the dealership for free.

[trb]

Hopefully that simple sensor will fix it. I can't imagine their thinking that the whole computer is bad if it gives a sensor code. That's one of the functions of the PCM, to help diagnose the problems!!!

[jimincalif]

Almost certainly it is the sensor. That's what the codes are for, after all! Good news.I think your "main dealer" should be your "former dealer". Ask friends, family, coworker, you should be able to find a good independent shop that will save you money and keep your car running well. My daily driver is a '93 Lexus. I take it (and the other cars) to a local shop we've used for years. I wouldn't drive a 19 year old car if I had to pay dealer rates to keep it going!Good luck.

[musicmanmu]

Not sure, but I hope not! Mine is an 09, so if they haven't issued a recall for that year, I imagine I wouldn't have a leg to stand on with that argument.I imagine that my main dealership will call me when they get a shipment of PCMs to try and schedule an appointment. If they do, I will definitely tell them what I've done and ask why they thought it necessary to replace the entire thing.Otherwise, though, my car is in good condition (other than some paint chips, wheel scuffs and some cracked plastic on the front from hitting a dog). I've got a good 129,000 miles on it and hope to put at least 200k on it.With gas prices the way they are though, I'm going to have to consider my next car carefully.

[musicmanmu]

Just wanted to give an update to this...

So, as I said, I had the second dealership look at the car, and they told me it was the very sensor that showed up on the code reader. They ordered it and put it in a week later. Total cost: $186 and change.

Car has been perfect ever since! Hoping it stays that way, but this seems to have fixed it.

Now, I have the interesting task of confronting the dealership where I bought the car about why they didn't look closer at things (they only had the car 20-30 min tops before they came back with their "diagnosis").

Thanks to everyone here for the advice! You may have very well saved me a lot of money!

[Salsa Guy]

Good Deal!!! Glad it all worked out!

[jimincalif]

Thanks for letting us know, glad it worked out.

[jake75]

Not sure, but I hope not! Mine is an 09, so if they haven't issued a recall for that year, I imagine I wouldn't have a leg to stand on with that argument.I imagine that my main dealership will call me when they get a shipment of PCMs to try and schedule an appointment. If they do, I will definitely tell them what I've done and ask why they thought it necessary to replace the entire thing.Otherwise, though, my car is in good condition (other than some paint chips, wheel scuffs and some cracked plastic on the front from hitting a dog). I've got a good 129,000 miles on it and hope to put at least 200k on it.With gas prices the way they are though, I'm going to have to consider my next car carefully.

It probably won't do any good but I would also write to GM about this incompetent dealer service dept. Seems to me that if the pcm is bad then it wouldn't even be able to throw codes.

[vibedrivermatt]

Nice! Glad it worked out.

I think a lot of us including myself thought the PCM needed to be replaced. It just goes to show that sometimes it's best to follow your own instincts or at least listen to car talk when in doubt.

Bravo musicmanmu!

[zyzyix]

I'm glad this worked out for you

[crazytrain]

I too am glad it worked out for you, musicmanmu. I think this goes to show that additional opinions can be very valuable.

[ColonelPanic]

Good deal!

Might have missed it but did that original dealer charge you a diag fee? If so go back and demand a refund.

[musicmanmu]

Good deal!

Might have missed it but did that original dealer charge you a diag fee? If so go back and demand a refund.

No, there was no charge for the diagnosis at the original dealer.

I decided it would be fruitless to pick a fight with that dealership, so I did not contact them. Haven't gone back to them since. I figured that they'd call me asking if I was coming in to address the PCM issue, and that's when I'd tell them what I thought of them. But, no use in it.

[zyzyix]

Good deal!

Might have missed it but did that original dealer charge you a diag fee? If so go back and demand a refund.

No, there was no charge for the diagnosis at the original dealer.

I decided it would be fruitless to pick a fight with that dealership, so I did not contact them. Haven't gone back to them since. I figured that they'd call me asking if I was coming in to address the PCM issue, and that's when I'd tell them what I thought of them. But, no use in it.

You still have the original dealer decal on your Vibe, right? Are you going to try to remove it?

[MannyL]

My dealer said the PCM had to be replaced also. I called Pontiac and they paid for half the repair. My problem then returned the day after repair. After further diagnosis they said one of the two 02 sensors failed. They replaced both sensors for free. If your problem comes back call Pontiac.

[musicmanmu]

Good deal!

Might have missed it but did that original dealer charge you a diag fee? If so go back and demand a refund.

No, there was no charge for the diagnosis at the original dealer.

I decided it would be fruitless to pick a fight with that dealership, so I did not contact them. Haven't gone back to them since. I figured that they'd call me asking if I was coming in to address the PCM issue, and that's when I'd tell them what I thought of them. But, no use in it.

You still have the original dealer decal on your Vibe, right? Are you going to try to remove it?

Ha ! No, there was no dealer decal on my Vibe, believe it or not.
Just hoping I can get through 18 more months with her. After that, she'll be paid off, and I will either trade it in, or give it to my wife who only drives in town.

[zyzyix]

You still have the original dealer decal on your Vibe, right? Are you going to try to remove it?

Ha ! No, there was no dealer decal on my Vibe, believe it or not.
Just hoping I can get through 18 more months with her. After that, she'll be paid off, and I will either trade it in, or give it to my wife who only drives in town.

[/quote]



That's good You'll make it the next 1 and a half with it, It really is a nice car. Good luck

[jimincalif]

Last week I was having a sandwich at my local Quiznos, at the next table were three service techs from one of the local car dealers. They were quite animated in telling each other stories about various screw ups and the lies they told to the customers. Pretty much confirmed everything I've come to expect from dealer service depts.

[trb]

Last week I was having a sandwich at my local Quiznos, at the next table were three service techs from one of the local car dealers. They were quite animated in telling each other stories about various screw ups and the lies they told to the customers. Pretty much confirmed everything I've come to expect from dealer service depts.

Another reason why I usually stay with my car in service, and let the tech know I am there by loitering around the service bay just outside the work area. I usually try to have some small talk with him if I can, so he knows I'm not just anyone and that I know about my cars.