Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto

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POPPAJ
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Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto

Post by POPPAJ »

Since about 1000 miles when coming to a stop, sometimes the trans shift into first is violent. the car will actually leap foreward unless heavy brake pedal pressure has been applied. I've had it back to the dealer once for this problem and of course could not duplicate the problem for the service consultant. I was told that it was my driving style "spirited" that was the problem as the no codes were thrown. I've drained the 3.8 quarts of stock fluid and replaced it with AMSOIL trans fluid with some improvement, but when it happens it's scary particulary if you are close to the vehicle in front of you. Anybody else? Any ideas?
vintagegz
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Post by vintagegz »

New bulletin to address that point, do not think it is wise to change trans fluid to non GM spec during warranty period#09-07-30-010: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) - (May 13, 2009) Subject: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) Models: 2009 Pontiac Vibe Equipped With 5-Speed Automatic Transmission -- RPO MVD ConditionSome customers may comment that they experienced a harsh downshift feeling when coming to a stop after the transmission has been in 4th or 5th gear. CauseThis condition may be caused by the PCM calibration for the 2-1 downshift not being optimized.CorrectionImportant: Before proceeding with the reprogramming procedure in this bulletin, the Vibe Programming Application MUST be downloaded and installed on the PC. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-006. A revised calibration has been developed to address this condition. Transmission Calibration InformationVehicle Type Old Calibration Revised Calibration Base Vibe 30280000 30280200 Base Vibe 30280100 30280200 Vibe GT 30282000 30282200 Vibe GT 30282100 30282200
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by jake75 »

Amazing what you can find out here isn't it.
2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."
Caretaker

Re: (vintagegz)

Post by Caretaker »

the only thing I question is the 5 speed automatic. I am having the same problem with my 1.8 liter 4 speed automatic. The easiest way for the dealer to replicate is to put the car in 2nd gear and leave it there. Drive a short distance and come to a stop. The car will lurch forward harshly as it comes to a stop and downshifts into first. I'm sure there are more of you out there who are experiencing this, no???
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Re: (Caretaker)

Post by Caretaker »

I'm taking mine in for the PCM flash next week.
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vibenvy
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Re: (Caretaker)

Post by vibenvy »

Well, I am taking my GT into the dealer tomorrow morning. It has been shifting weird for a while and now I know it's not just my imagination.Question: my mom has an '09 GT as well and hers has been shifting fine, would it hurt to take it in and have the PCM re-flashed anyway or will the dealer not do it if it's shifting fine?
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Caretaker

Re: (J_TO_ENVY)

Post by Caretaker »

My service rep practically read me the riot act over the phone stating that....blah, blah, blah......technician will attempt to duplicate the blah, blah, blah.....then we will assess the need for a computer hook up....blah, blah, blah......Sounds to me like they won't do a bloody thing if they cannot repllicate it. My question to you all is this: since the condition is considerably worse when you have the car (automatic) in second gear position and come to a stop, will they simply put the car in Drive mode and try to replicate it and make the claim that having the car in second gear when the car comes to a stop and lurches into first gear is not the "natural driving condition"?? Since this car does not have manu-matic, I'm assuming that whether I am in D or 2 does not matter, although I do acknowledge that the 1.8 automatic tranny does not lurch as much when in D and the car downshifts to first gear at a stop sign.
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by POPPAJ »

THANKS!!!!!!!!!
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Post by vintagegz »

llet us know if it helps
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vibenvy
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by vibenvy »

I typed up and printed out the Technical Service Bulletin that vintagegz posted. I put it into the envelope with my key when I dropped the Vibe off this morning at the dealer. I wrote on the envelope that the transmission was not shifting properly, but it was intermittent. I also wrote on there to see the enclosed paper. When I picked it up this afternoon, the work order said the tech couldn't duplicate it but they re-flashed the PCM anyway so I am satisfied. So far I have only driven it a couple miles and it shifted fine, we'll see once I drive it further if it's fine or not though.I am going to be taking my mom's '09 GT in to get the PCM re-flashed as well, although so far her's seems to shift fine, but I figure it's free and it annoys the techs and dealer so why the hell not .For anyone having this problem, I would seriously recommend printing out the information that vintagegz posted and taking it to the dealer. Basically ***** and complain until they re-flash your PCM.
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VforVIBE
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (POPPAJ)

Post by VforVIBE »

I'm glad they got a bulletin out on that, it was starting to get annoying.
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vibenvy
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (VforVIBE)

Post by vibenvy »

Well, after driving back and forth to work today the transmission is shifting fine. Yay!
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Vibe2009
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by Vibe2009 »

I printed this below and schedule to have it check out this thursday! Good thread! I always felt the downshift surge but didn't brother taking it in, as I am afraid they will rip my car apart and not being about to resolve the issues... with this reprogramming of the PCM, I am crossing my finger that it will work!Quote, originally posted by vintagegz »New bulletin to address that point, do not think it is wise to change trans fluid to non GM spec during warranty period#09-07-30-010: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) - (May 13, 2009) Subject: Harsh Transmission Downshift When Stopping After Transaxle Has Upshifted to 4th or 5th Gear (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)) Models: 2009 Pontiac Vibe Equipped With 5-Speed Automatic Transmission -- RPO MVD ConditionSome customers may comment that they experienced a harsh downshift feeling when coming to a stop after the transmission has been in 4th or 5th gear. CauseThis condition may be caused by the PCM calibration for the 2-1 downshift not being optimized.CorrectionImportant: Before proceeding with the reprogramming procedure in this bulletin, the Vibe Programming Application MUST be downloaded and installed on the PC. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-006. A revised calibration has been developed to address this condition. Transmission Calibration InformationVehicle Type Old Calibration Revised Calibration Base Vibe 30280000 30280200 Base Vibe 30280100 30280200 Vibe GT 30282000 30282200 Vibe GT 30282100 30282200
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Vibe2009
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Re: (Vibe2009)

Post by Vibe2009 »

One more thing...Why is the base vibe calibration different from the GT?? They are both referring to the 5sp auto correct? Shouldn't it be the same than??
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POPPAJ
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by POPPAJ »

Took the Vibe in last week for the PCM flash. No problem from the dealer. Trans seems to be working O.K.THANKS vintagegz!!!!!!
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Post by vintagegz »

glad I could help
thepachman
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Re: (Vibe2009)

Post by thepachman »

Quote, originally posted by Vibe2009 »One more thing...Why is the base vibe calibration different from the GT?? They are both referring to the 5sp auto correct? Shouldn't it be the same than??I believe the gearing ratios are different for the base vs. GT, so they'll need to use different specs when calibrating the GT's PCM.
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Re: (thepachman)

Post by vibenvy »

Quote, originally posted by J TO ENVY »Well, after driving back and forth to work today the transmission is shifting fine. Yay!Well, it's been a little over a month now and the transmission is not shifting right again. It's weird because it does it in the exact same spots everyday on my way to and from work. I am going to take it to a different dealer because I get the feeling the one I took it to might not have re-flashed the PCM like they said they did.
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2009 Liquid Platinum Metallic Vibe GT - 5-Speed Auto – Garage
2009 Steel Blue Metallic Vibe GT - 5-Speed Auto – Garage
Caretaker

Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (POPPAJ)

Post by Caretaker »

well, here's a post from Edmunds:i bought an 09 2.4L automatic and have been experiencing a hard downshift from the transmission. as well as hearing it you can actually feel it when it drops into the lower gear. i brought it into the dealer a couple days after i purchased it and they said there was an upgrade on the computer to address the concern. unfortunately it did not resolve the problem. then i was told by the dealership there is another temporary fix until the engineers at GM figure out the problem. however they said there is no guarantee this next fix will take either and it may not be worth trying it? now GM has told me it is the shift adapter and it will resolve itself after 5,000-7,000 KmsSo this person's story seems to mirror others in that the PCM reflash is only temporary. So, other than the obvious, what's a shifter adapter??
Leed
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (Caretaker)

Post by Leed »

that was my post on edmonds awhile back. i have filed my complaint with GM in the event this trans issue does not get corrected. i recommend everyone who has this problem file a complaint with GM so its on file. if the flash works for some you are fortunate. From what i have read it does not resolve the problem on most cars with this issue. My understanding is GM is waiting for Toyota engineers to come up with a solution as it is a Toyota tranny. the Matrix form posts similar complaints and the problem is rampant.i strongly urge people to file a complaint with GM as maybe it will put pressure on this issue so we get on with it. lets face it its been over a year since the 2009 2.4L have been out and still no resolution. i love everything else about my car but can't live with the tranny harsh downshift not being resolved.
MajorAD
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Re: (vintagegz)

Post by MajorAD »

I wonder if the 2010 models have the same problem? If not whats the difference b/t the 09 to 10 since the only thing I can think of is the month they were assembled.
Caretaker

Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (Leed)

Post by Caretaker »

Hi Leed. Thanks for pushing the envelop on this one. I hope your efforts result in something positive for you Camry Vibe owners. My shifting problem with my Corolla Vibe is less noticeable, although today when I did several manual downshifts to 2nd to assist the brakes, the car did surge forward once or twice. So on the Corolla Vibe it does not do it all the time, but it is there. Best wishes my northwest friend.
dragon64
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (Caretaker)

Post by dragon64 »

There is a possibility that some of these issues are not transmission related at all. I've been involved in a product development with an aftermarket company. We have found that with some Toyota models that the Traction Control, Stability Control, DBW throttle, engine mounts and tires can interact creating issues that even affect cars with a manual transmission. Basically the the ECU freaks out and applies braking force and adjust the DBW throttle making the car harsh and jerky.Have any of you tried driving with the T/C and S/C turned off yet to see if there is any noticeable change?
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (dragon64)

Post by vibenvy »

Quote, originally posted by dragon64 »We have found that with some Toyota models that the Traction Control, Stability Control, DBW throttle, engine mounts and tires can interact creating issues that even affect cars with a manual transmission.This problem affects automatic transmission vehicles, not manual.Quote, originally posted by dragon64 »Have any of you tried driving with the T/C and S/C turned off yet to see if there is any noticeable change?This will be kind of hard considering the traction control automatically turns back on once you get above 35 mph (on the '09s).
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gimmegimme
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (J_TO_ENVY)

Post by gimmegimme »

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »This will be kind of hard considering the traction control automatically shuts off when you get above 35 mph (on the '09s).I read a post here that said if you hold down the button for a few seconds, it disables both T/C and S/C and they stay off. It only turns back on if you don't disable both. (I have not tried it myself though.)
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (J_TO_ENVY)

Post by star_deceiver »

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »This will be kind of hard considering the traction control automatically shuts off when you get above 35 mph (on the '09s).Oh no it does not!!! I've spun the tires at 120km/h hydroplaning and the traction control reigns them in!
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (star_deceiver)

Post by vibenvy »

Quote, originally posted by gimmegimme »I read a post here that said if you hold down the button for a few seconds, it disables both T/C and S/C and they stay off. It only turns back on if you don't disable both. (I have not tried it myself though.)I've tried holding the button down for a few seconds and nothing happens.Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »Oh no it does not!!! I've spun the tires at 120km/h hydroplaning and the traction control reigns them in!Sorry, that was a mistype. What I meant was you can turn it off using the button but once you get over 35 mph the traction control turns back on automatically (not shuts off like I said ). Edited my last post so it made sense.
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dragon64
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (J_TO_ENVY)

Post by dragon64 »

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »This problem affects automatic transmission vehicles, not manual.I realized that we are taking about automatic transmission vehicles but some of the same unrelated mechanical systems that may be leading to the issue of the automatic transmission shifting also seem to be causing similar issues with shift issues with Manual transmisson vehicles as well, just that most will chalk up the problems to the driver rather than the electronic control of the transmission. Although I personally am '09 1.8L manual driver there are a couple issue that I've notice that may seem unrelated to the Automatic transmissions issue but may be worth looking into. Even with the Manual gearbox from time to time can be difficult to get the car rolling smoothly or shifting up or down between gear without harsh engagement, lurching or almost stall. I've driven vehicles with everything from a Eaton/ Fuller 18 speed transmission to Hewland Sequential shift tranny and even one my previous car with a 4 copper puck unsprung hub clutch was more consistant to go between gear as a daily driver than my Vibe can be. As mentioned previously I am working on contract with an aftermarket automotive company in product development. This gives me the opporunity to see certain issues on different platforms across product lines and in some cases accidentally create ones that interact with existing ones. From what we have seen Toyota's algorithm for T/C and S/C is so sensitive that PCM starts to freak out over any little bump and shake that it doesn't see as normal according to the factory tech. We artificially created a stability issue in several other models of cars with similar drivetrains to the Vibe/ Matrix just by change tire profile (softer sidewalls) and/or inflation that is so minor that as the driver you don't even notice it but the Toyota algorithm started applying unnecessary corrections (brake, throttle, ATX) making the car harsh and jerky. After seeing some of these ATX shifting issues on the test platforms then getting into my own car for the drive home and realizing that there are similar issues that can't be related to the tranny makes me think you guys are also dealing with interactions with other sub systems in the car.BTW as I found out from the Toyota manuals if you push and hold the TC button while at a stop until both the T/C and S/C lights are illuminated both systems was remain off at any speed until either the button is pushed again or engine is turned off.
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto (dragon64)

Post by star_deceiver »

Quote, originally posted by dragon64 »BTW as I found out from the Toyota manuals if you push and hold the TC button while at a stop until both the T/C and S/C lights are illuminated both systems was remain off at any speed until either the button is pushed again or engine is turned off. Works the same in the Vibe, but you have to be completely stopped. If you're moving you can't get the VSC and TC to permenantly stay off.
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JohnnieMo
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Re: Transmission troubles,2009 GT Auto

Post by JohnnieMo »

After dealing with this lurch issue for 6 years, I stumbled across this thread. I took my car into a Toyota dealership and they re-flashed the ECM with the newest firmware. The lurch is now gone. It cost me $42. I couldn't be happier. I can't believe I put up with this for so long. For the record, they installed ECM Version 30282400.

Thanks to those who did this research! GM was clueless.
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