New pistons

[Lancer]

Had some time to kill and I was in the nieghborhood, so I stopped by the tuner shop to see when in this millenia do they think they can quiet my exhaust down. After some run-around answers he finally told me to call tomarrow when his exhaust guy is there. Then I asked him for a estimate on installing new pistons, since my rings are most likely the main cause to all the blue smoke coming out the tail pipe while on the gas.He started off saying it'll cost about $1100 to pull an reinstall the engine . Another $700 for machining work . And almost $600 for the parts. Then he went off saying how he would install new head studs and do a 10 overbore, blah, blah, blah. Finally told me I'd be looking at around $3000. (Just to fix some leaking piston rings with something much stronger?)Is that all really necessary? Yeah it would be nice to all that. But I know I wont be able to come up with that much money until maybe next tax season. And honestly I don't think It would be worth it with the little s/c I have.Can't I just get the pistons from MWR and install them?Also he mentioned if I didn't have the s/c on to just take some Ajax and slowly feed it into the engine intake to fix the leak. To sorta 're-polish' the cylinder walls. He said it'll smoke a lot and run really rough for a little while, but he swears by it. Any one ever hear of doing that before?

[KNINE]

I know that Ajax really gets my bath tub clean! I've always been skeptical when it comes to putting things in my engine that wasn't designed to into one. There's a product called RESTORE that's made to seal leaky cylinders. I think it goes in your oil. it can be found in most autoparts stores. I would try that before I put Ajax in my engine.

[kevera]

I wouldn't put ajax in my engine,sounds destructive.But I would talk to another shop for better pricing.All that work he quoted you would make that motor very sweet,but if you don't have the cash,then check somewhere else.

[Lancer]

Yeah it would be sweet, but my goals for the vibe are 'almost' complete as far as the performance of it goes. Doing #3grand worth of lower end upgrades is really overkill for what I'm wanting to do with the vibe.I was thinking, do they make a better 'performance' piston ring set? Or just get oem replacments for the next 50,000 miles.The only 'big' upgrade I want to do yet to the engine is cams and valve train. Loose the fifth injector for bigger main ones, and a good tune. Then the motor will be done.

[ajconover]

Despite some people's warnings about never using oil additives, I've used Rislone (http://www.barsproducts.com/rislone_products.htm) for the past 20 years at nearly every oil change in all of my cars. (I'm also careful never to add it to an already full crank case, but when changing the oil in my '95 Lumina for example, I add 4 quarts of oil then bring it up the the full line with Rislone. yes... I'm still Vibe shopping...)I don't know if it's just been coincidence, the dedicated maintenance, or actually the Rislone... but I've had good luck with all my engines running smooth and quiet and even doing consistently well on the state emissions tests; even after 12 years and 100,000+ miles.Anyway... they do make a "Ring Seal" product as well. I've never used it (so I can't vouch for it at all), but -- if you suspect the rings -- it seems like it might be worth a try... certainly better than Ajax, IMO. Even if it only solves the problem temporarilly, you can at least have some added assurance that the rings are really the problem. If you are paranoid about oil additives, the Castrol "high mileage" oil seems to have the same type of additives... you could always try that at the next oil change. I've been using it for about the last year or so in my '95 Lumina; it seems to be working out ok. My millage and power are still just as good as they've ever been. (If only my suspension wasn't falling apart... but that's a separate issue.)

[djb383]

It's been my understanding that if oil was getting by the rings, it would be smoking all of the time, not just when you're on the gas. Have you done a cylinder leak down test, not a compression test? If performed correctly, a cylinder leak down test will tell if you are loosing compression by the rings or valves, etc. Oil can also enter the cylinders by the valve stems and the intake. With regard to the place you visited, I would turn around and run, not walk, run as fast as I could, away from that place. A good shop will have a little camera that goes down the spark plug hole and will give a visual of the cylinder walls on a monitor. Try the leak down test first.

[goodvibe]

(removed), ajax! Don't let that guy ever touch your motor. Try this to make sure that your rings aren't just stuck. http://www.auto-rx.com/ If that doesn't take care of it, just run a 40 wt if you get a mediocre compression test. The car can last a long time with moderate oil use. A lot of BMWs use more than a qt per 1000 mi. their entire life. You just need to stop the wear from continuing. A heavy synth would help in a hot motor like yours.

[pacerman]

Do a wet and dry compression test. Pull all the plugs, do a dry test on all the cylinders, record the readings. Then squirt a couple of shots of oil when doing each cylinder and record the results for each test. If the compression rises by more than 10-15 PSI when wet, its a good chance its the rings. If it stays the same its something else, valve guide seals??Also if you back off on the gas when going down a long grade and lay heavy on the throttle at the bottom , if you get a large plume of blue smoke its the valve guide seals.We used powdered Bon Ami (Comet)into the intake on carburetted engines to seat rings if they wouldn't seal. Usually on chrome rings, cast seemed to seat OK. A couple of oil changes afterwards is recommended.Did you ever overheat the engine? Maybe you collapsed the oil control rings?Did you remove the oil filler cap when running to see if there is excessive blowby??

[joatmon]

I'll pile on and say do the various tests to try to determine what the problem is first before deciding on how to fix it. And no amount of testimony of past success would convince me to put scouring powder inside the engine and then start it up. It may work wonders, but what a leap of faith that would take! I don't trust the ruggedness of these engines to be able to deal with gritty oil.

[goodvibe]

I'm sure that the motor didn't always blow oil. Ajax can't help once the rings were seated and that's your situation. It would just increase the problem, could score a soft bearing when it gets past the rings in these new tighter bearing motors and the clorine in the powder makes hydrochloric acid in that environment. Chlorine is real bad for aluminum engines. Maybe it worked great for seating chrome rings in iron blocks when bearing clearences were larger but stay away with your motor. I wouldn't even try it as a last ditch effort before new rings and hone. It can age other parts of the motor prematurely. Stay away from Ajax.Bon ami is what's been used successfully in the past, doesn't contain CL and uses a softer abrasive. If your bores are glazed it might work at lower risk to the rest of the motor but I doubt that's the problem at this point in your engines life.

[drunkenmaxx]

the bore would be nice...

[Lancer]

Thank's for the input everyone! I know, I have to get that leakdown test to find out just where it's leaking oil from. it's hard to schedual things so the wife and I have to share one car and 2 jobs, kids school and other crap. Pretty safe to say it's the rings though. Been having power surges and less overall power the last few months. If it's not the rings, I'll be really suprised.Everyone, don't worry I'm not about to put any scouring powder in my engine! It's too much trouble removing the s/c and reinstalling the stock intake manifold just for that. This sucks! I was really excited thinking I could finish the engine mods by early summer. Now I have to practically rebuild the engine. Bound to happen though, right? Been doing some reading and it looks like there's really no way around it. Guess I'll just have to limp the car around until I can save enough $$ for the hone job and rebuild. The shop I'm going to now really is about the best in this part of the state. They're only buisness is in performance, for many professional racing teams, show cars, and just about every ricer ,and weekend enthusiast on this side of the state. I do trust them even with the runaround with my exhaust. They are also about the only shop that is even willing to work on my car with all the stuff I've done to it so far. None of the dealerships will even look at it. And there's so many small shops that mainly do tune ups and oem repairs that I don't know who else to go to. But yeah, gotta shop around a little to see if I can get better pricing. I don't know. After everything is done it's almost cheaper just to get a MWR racing engine. Since that's basicly what I'll have after they're done with it. I'll have to give MWR a call... How much is it to ship a short block?

[djb383]

I got a Chevy ZZ4 crate motor shipped from Oregon to Texas for $125. Hope that helps.

[goodvibe]

You could try a piston soak(carbon disolver through the plug holes) or the Auto RX without hurting the motor. If your rings are stuck and not worn, you'll get your compression back.