09 Base clutch concern...

[FatherTime]

Just bought an 09 base 1.8 manual 2 weeks ago. Bit of a girly car but I like nonetheless. Probably a couple things I may want to post on in the future, but the thing that's most concerning to me is the way the clutch feels when starting out from a dead stop. While I haven't driven a manual in 15 years, I did drive them for 20 years prior, mostly pickup trucks. I can't seem to get the hang of starting out smoothly. Sometimes my starts can be a bit jerky, or, I feel the need to give it a little more gas/rpm's than what (I think) should be necessary. If I end up holding the clutch too long at the engagement point, I sometimes feel a little "shudder". The shudder thing never happens if I increase the rpm's when engaging the clutch. Maybe 1500 - 2000? After getting going, everything feels perfect...smooth shifting, good acceleration, no slipping, no odors. A couple mechanics have driven the car (for other reasons like an inspection), and have not made any mention of a clutch issue. At first I thought it was just my lack of experience with the car, but it's been 2 weeks now. Any thoughts or advice? Does this thing just need to be goosed a bit to get it rolling??

[zbyers]

Welcome to GenVibe! We like pictures of your ride.

How many mile are on the car?

To me, it sounds as if you just need to adjust to the sweet spot of where the clutch engages. My old '03 GT clutch engaged near the top of the pedal; my current '04 is closer to the middle.

However, depending on mileage, it could be due for a clutch. I can't remember exactly what, but you can try putting the card in like 3rd or 4th gear and letting off the clutch. If the car shutters (from being in too high of a gear), it's likely the clutch is fine.

What's your location. You could be neighbors with one of us and not know it.

[FatherTime]

Welcome to GenVibe! We like pictures of your ride.

How many mile are on the car?

*** Just turned 109,000

To me, it sounds as if you just need to adjust to the sweet spot of where the clutch engages. My old '03 GT clutch engaged near the top of the pedal; my current '04 is closer to the middle.

*** Mine engages closer to the floor. Thing is, I can't find a "sweet spot". Still looking.

However, depending on mileage, it could be due for a clutch. I can't remember exactly what, but you can try putting the card in like 3rd or 4th gear and letting off the clutch. If the car shutters (from being in too high of a gear), it's likely the clutch is fine.

*** Tried the clutch trick. It just immediately shuts down. No shudder.

What's your location. You could be neighbors with one of us and not know it.

*** I'm in the Southern Tier of NY, about twenty min. north of the Pennsylvania border.

Had two different mechanics test drive the car today to get their opinion.

Mechanic #1 (with a national chain) said he didn't see any issues with the clutch, and because the clutch engages so close to the floor he thought it was likely a new clutch plate.

Mechanic #2 (locally owned private shop) He said he felt the chatter in first gear, and it was a sign of early stage clutch wear. He felt the wear was premature based on my mileage, and suggested the previous owner may have rode the clutch alot to wear it out so early. He also said "if it were me, I'd drive it til it starts to slip, then get it repaired". He also said that the clutch engaging close to the floor doesn't automatically mean "new", as the clutch is self adjusting.

Also found discussion online where the guy described my clutch problem perfectly...the reply he got was:

Your clutch is warped or there is oil leaking from your main seal and burning on your clutch. Your symptom is classic for these conditions. I had it happen on an EK civic I used to own. No cure other than new clutch and maybe new flywheel.

Soooo...IDK I tend to agree with #2, and liked the idea that he didn't hard sell me into an expensive repair. He quoted me worst case scenario as just under $1000. Another garage quoted me $1200.

Amazing how different opinions, prices, and advice can be from one mechanic to another. I had 1 mechanic quote me $450 to change spark plugs. Another said $150 for the same work. Crazy.

[zbyers]

Sooo. Is that Jamestown, NY? Because we might be neighbors. LOL. I am in Warren, PA.

[tpollauf]

I'm in the Southern Tier of NY, about twenty min. north of the Pennsylvania border.

As in Olean NY? (wife is from there) Also as the owner of a first and second generation manual tranny Vibe (2004 Vibe GT and 2009 Vibe GT) they both are completely different when it comes to driving and releasing the clutch. The 2004 I embarrassingly have stalled numerous times due to me expecting it to have the extra power/torque from the bigger 2.4L engine. Also the adjustment on the clutch pedal are also so different. In your case it might just be a bit of behavior driving habits that need to be altered a bit. Once you start driving it more regular it will become second nature and all will be fine

[FatherTime]

I'm in the Southern Tier of NY, about twenty min. north of the Pennsylvania border.

As in Olean NY? (wife is from there) Also as the owner of a first and second generation manual tranny Vibe (2004 Vibe GT and 2009 Vibe GT) they both are completely different when it comes to driving and releasing the clutch. The 2004 I embarrassingly have stalled numerous times due to me expecting it to have the extra power/torque from the bigger 2.4L engine. Also the adjustment on the clutch pedal are also so different. In your case it might just be a bit of behavior driving habits that need to be altered a bit. Once you start driving it more regular it will become second nature and all will be fine

I'm in the Binghamton area.

Do you ever experience any clutch chatter starting from a stop? I do, depending on how high I have the RPM's and how long the clutch is left at the engagement point. (to me that seems like a clutch problem) Above 2000 it generally won't happen, but that seems like a lot of RPM's to me, and can cause a bit of a "jerky" start. I would think I should be able to get off smoothly at around 1500. But nope.

[jolt]

You could check the adjustment of the pedal if the clutch is engaging to close to the floor, it may help. See the thread.... viewtopic.php?f=20&t=46586&p=522254&hil ... nt#p522254

[zbyers]

I'm in the Binghamton area.

Do you ever experience any clutch chatter starting from a stop? I do, depending on how high I have the RPM's and how long the clutch is left at the engagement point. (to me that seems like a clutch problem) Above 2000 it generally won't happen, but that seems like a lot of RPM's to me, and can cause a bit of a "jerky" start. I would think I should be able to get off smoothly at around 1500. But nope.

Ahhh. You're like 4 hours from me. Even if it were Olean as tpollauf suggested, I'd be willing to venture that way to take a look. 4 hours is just a little too far.

That said, yes, I do get a little bit of chattter/shuttering if I don't have the RPM's in the right spot when letting go of the clutch pedal.

Following jolts post is also a good idea.

[FatherTime]

I'm in the Binghamton area.

Do you ever experience any clutch chatter starting from a stop? I do, depending on how high I have the RPM's and how long the clutch is left at the engagement point. (to me that seems like a clutch problem) Above 2000 it generally won't happen, but that seems like a lot of RPM's to me, and can cause a bit of a "jerky" start. I would think I should be able to get off smoothly at around 1500. But nope.

Ahhh. You're like 4 hours from me. Even if it were Olean as tpollauf suggested, I'd be willing to venture that way to take a look. 4 hours is just a little too far.

That said, yes, I do get a little bit of chattter/shuttering if I don't have the RPM's in the right spot when letting go of the clutch pedal.

Following jolts post is also a good idea.

I haven't had anyone yet (except you) say that they get any chatter starting out. (Kind of what I was looking for). Would you say that's "normal" for this make/model vehicle, (always been that way since new), or did it start "later in life" due to normal clutch wear?

I don't understand why adjusting the clutch engagement height would make a difference in how it actually behaves (other than to change the engagement position of the pedal). Actually, to me it feels to be exactly where I'd expect it to be. It's about 4, or 5 inches off the floor (I think). It's definitely not right on the floor.

Yeah, I wish I knew someone that owns one of these things so I could get them to test drive it. Yup, 4 hrs is way too far.

[FatherTime]

Just an update on my clutch dilemma. I intended to take the thing in to a mechanic, hand them a blank check and just say, fix it. Today I got thinking that I really haven't even noticed the chatter in a couple weeks or so, and decided that I must have learned how to hide it efficiently by manipulating the rpms and clutch release. I drove it for a couple hours to test my theory. I tried everything to get it to chatter short of abuse...nope. Gone. No chattering. So...I didn't learn how to hide it, it just went away? Did this clutch just self-adjust or something? Something has changed. Cautiously optimistic.

[jolt]

The clutch is not a cable or linkage operated but is hydraulic. You have your master cylinder and a slave cylinder. If you get air in the system, you will get weird things happening and the clutch can get so that it does not work smoothly or be predictable in it operation. By working the clutch, you may have got some air out of the system so that it is working better. You may want to bleed the clutch if it acts up again. Slave cylinders are the ones that go first in most hydraulic clutch systems because the slave cylinder is the lowest part in the system where water and debris build up over time and cause seals to leak or pull air into the system.

[pwyu1969]

My 09 clutch started to do goofy things too. Unfortunately it did not self correct. Ended up being the master cylinder, though I changed the slave cylinder (did the work this past weekend) and took out the accumlator. I also agree on the air bubble in the line as a possibility. Maybe the cold weather made it act strange as it can contract seals and create minor changes in pressure? Hope its not the master cylinder as that is a (removed) to get to...

[FatherTime]

Well here's a theory not yet posed by anyone...Found this in a Ford forum, someone replying to a poster with identical "symptoms" as I had.

"Clutch chatter is rather common for a manual car with some miles on it. The cause is the Drivers motion pattern during clutch engagement, basically everyone lets out a clutch in an individual manner and this causes peaks and valleys to form in the clutch friction surfaces. Good news is that a new driver can wear in the clutch to their individual motion fairly quickly and when that is completed the clutch will smooth out for that new driver. ( ) BTW, if you have a family type group where 3 or more drivers are sharing one car that clutch will actually wear in a fashion that keeps the friction pads rather close to a factory original surface. Basically lots of drivers using the same car will "average out" the clutch."

Is it possible that my clutch style is vastly different from the previous owners to the degree that it actually caused the chatter, but then over time, the friction material smoothed out as it "adjusted" to my clutch style? Is this even possible? Because...it makes a lot of sense.

[vibedrivermatt]

I know im late to the party but id like to throw in my two cents. I think the hydraulic on these cars likes to be driven a certain way. 1500 to 2000rpm is way to low for shifting imo. That stuttering you descrube just sounds likebthe engine getting bogged down by the flywheel. Im aways always shifting atleast around 3000 or 3500. Actually, its not uncommon for me ti shift at 4500 but thats usually if im trying to accelerate pretty quickly. Also, i tend to let off the clutch very slowly with this car especially at slower speeds.
It sounds like im winding my engine out whenever cruising around parking lots but w/e my car is shifting haplliy. It also doesnt smell like burnt clutch when doing this.
. Mine is a 2.4l but it may be similar to the 09 1.8.

[rocket9005]

i agree about the hydraulic clutch, you can't feel then it starts to "catch" like you could with a cable. You can't feel the slack loosen like in a cable. I notice it most in going from 1st to 2nd. the other gears are fine
.