‘Slightly’ broken front suspension.

[thatsthevibe]

I was up north and I got stuck being on only dirt roads for about 10 mi in a national wildlife refuge, these roads had so many pot holes and dips to avoid and in some spots it was very sandy and loose. I knocked the right front in a deep pothole I didn't see in time going 25, I hit a lot of nasty bumps with the car on that road and I knew that all the suspension on the car is the same as the day it rolled out of NUMMI. I did drive it home on 120 miles of interstate and it did fine, possibly a tad more vibration at those speeds but not enough to make me concerned. When I got home I saw that the RF suspension / CV looked bad. I don’t know how bad this is but I know it’s not good!

https://m.imgur.com/a/BVkBlGc

[andrewclaus]

That's just a torn rubber boot on the strut. Mine has looked the same since I got it a couple years ago. I'm finally getting around to putting new struts in this week.

But get the rest of the steering gear checked out by a tire/alignment shop. You may have bent a tie rod or control arm. Do not delay on this--it's very important stuff.

You may want to get new struts all around, too, and if you do the fronts you should get an alignment anyway.

[andrewclaus]

I just looked at the third photo more carefully and I think it looks like a foreign object stuck in there. It looks a little like the boot from the inner tie rod end, but I can't imagine how that could possibly get up there. I'd try pulling it out, and look at both tie rods coming from the steering rack.

[Bookworm]

I'd get new ones all around anyway - if they have more than 50,000 miles, and the boots have been torn up, then who knows how good the inner seals are at this point.

It's on my to-do list to do in the next couple of months as well, and mine has 175k on it. This time I'll get the front _and_ rear done at one time.

[thatsthevibe]

Thanks for the help guys,I’m thinking I’m going to try to see if some shop near me will install parts if I order them (I doubt these are an easy DIY install), I’m looking at doing moog or Monroe complete strut assembly all round. Both claim better performance than stock.
Weirdly enough before my little off road excursion my car pulled slightly right and afterwards I noticed my alignment was about perfect. I hope I don’t need any CV or ball joint work. Also I hope this will make the steering wheel shake less at freeway speeds.

[Bookworm]

Many shops will charge you $50 a corner to install your parts. Using quick struts, the fronts are reasonably easy to replace if you have the HUGE socket and a good long breaker bar needed for the main bolts. Monroe work, but you can't torque them down to factory specs - many people have tried that here and had them shear off. I put them on, and torqued them snugly, drove, then tightened again, and never had a problem with needing to go to the 'torque till it dies' point. I also used the old nuts, not the ones that came with the struts.

shimmy at certain speeds is classic balance weight problem, and if you drive on rough roads, you'll lose those frequently.

[andrewclaus]

If your steering changed and you introduced a shimmy, you probably bent something. It's probably not the strut or an axle (CV joint) or ball joint. More likely a control arm or tie rod (in my experience, at least--don't ask). As mentioned the struts should be changed anyway. An alignment should follow that, which will highlight any damage. A tire or brake shop can give you a free estimate of damage and cost to repair.

[thatsthevibe]

One shop wants $631 another wants $900 and the guy told me that 99% says I’d also need sway links along with the struts.
I drove it today and it seemed ok although I can feel that there is a difference in the way the car lands off bumps at high speeds. I didn’t notice a new wheel shimmy I just noticed it come on at a slightly lower speed. I’m thinking of doing it myself but from reading other threads here I’m hesitant because of the possibility of over torquing the strut and having it snap off.

[Bookworm]

The $631 and $900 probably are selling you the struts as well. A _good_ shop will let you bring in your own parts.

If the shimmy is at ALL speeds, then something's probably bent. If it's at a couple of speeds, but if you slow down or speed up, it goes away - you've lost some balance weights.

Sway bar linkages are actually pretty easy to replace - as long as you _don't get the crush nut versions_.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3575268

That's the AC Delco version with the plastic "don't back off" washer. $17 each at Rockauto (roughly the same price at local stores.

This is the crush nut version -
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8017984

The difference is that with the crush nut ones? You basically have to cut them off with a grinder.

To install, you need a flat box end wrench, and a decent socket. That's it. Loosen the nuts, jack up the car, put it on stands, take the wheels off, and go to town. Remove two nuts on each one (one link per side). Throw the old one away, or drop it into steel recycling. Put the old one on, tighten until a quarter to half past snug. Or use a torque wrench if you're one of _those_ folks.

So, most people can do the sway bar links, but the struts require some heavier tools. If you're replacing the struts, replacing the sway bar links is a good idea - it's only another $30 or so in parts, and almost no labor time at all.

[thatsthevibe]

Both places were local shops that would hang customer parts and that’s what they told me it would be, with me paying for the parts. Firestone won’t put on my own parts, neither will my favorite dealer. I’m thinking buying a floor jack and stands plus all the stuff I need to do the work still won’t be the $1,000-1,400 I was quoted to be buying the parts and paying for them to be installed.
The shaking only comes on after 55-65 mph and it’s been that way since I first time I’ve ever driven when I first got my temps, always thought it was just a vibe thing haha.

[Bookworm]

Yeesh. I was going to go ahead and use my local shop - they told me $50 a corner ($200) to put them on, as they wouldn't need to use a coil compressor or anything. Just remove the old and jam on the new ones. With pneumatic tools, minutes a corner.

Anyway, if you want to do it yourself, there's a large batch of things you can do all at once that'll make things very nice.

Moog Rear Right and left from Rockauto is about $83 each. Front right and left $125 from Moog. From KYB or AC Delco - about $112 each.

1/2" breaker bar, 25" long, from Harbor Freight - $20 (if not on sale) (You won't need a cheater with this sucker)

impact socket set - I can't remember if I got the standard or deep socket. I think I bought the Deep socket set, because the nuts were, I want to say, 24mm. I'll have to check it. The standard impact sockets only went to 22mm. Roughly $25 from Harbor Freight.

6mm hex socket. Get the ball hex socket set. $9 from harbor freight. (The ball ends work even if you can't get straight into it with the wrench)

reasonably thin box end wrench (for the sway bar link). Also make sure you have a decent 3/8 socket set.

1/2" drive socket wrench. For this purpose, just buy the 1/2" $20 torque wrench. It's ratcheting. The violent parts you'll use the breaker bar.

3/8" torque wrench. Again, Harbor Freight $20 works just fine. It's not something I'd want to use fifty times a day, but they work fine for the six to ten times a year I need one, and I've seen them tested for torque.

Deep Creep or similar lubricant, plus some carb cleaner to blow crap out of crevices.

Sway bar link (x2), control arm bushing and ball joint, and go ahead and do your brakes if they're coming up due

You'll also want a couple of coat hangers, and maybe some short bungee cords. That way, when you release the strut, you don't have the wheel assembly going 'boing'.

If you get stuck straight into it, you'll have all of it done in under 5 hours. (If you're at all experienced with repairing your car) I started to say 4 hours, but I forgot about the rear shocks.

Moog used to have a front end kit at Rockauto, with all the parts together (control arms, linkages, bushings, ball joints, etc), but apparently not anymore. Pity. There are, however, a lot more options in the 'complete strut' sections. Weirdly enough, they have KYB for the front, but not for the back.

So, you'll need about $100 in additional tools, (not counting jack stands, etc), and a weekend to spare. If you have four, put the entire car up on jack stands. Have your kid scrub down the wheels and tires for you, while they're off of the car. That'll also let you inspect all of the wheel wells, etc, while doing the job.

OOOHHHHH... Almost forgot. IF you have a pressure washer, USE IT. Even with nitrile or latex gloves (change them reasonably frequently, your hands WILL sweat like crazy - if not, mechanics gloves) you'll be dealing with who knows what in the way of caked in crap. Have a pre-diluted bottle of simple green or even windex, and a pile of old t-shirt rags handy as well, to clean off the surfaces underneath and on top when you get the struts removed.

Caveat: When putting the car on jack stands, you'll want the car pretty high so you can sit on a bucket while working. Don't do it all at once. Do one corner to the lowest setting. Then the other side. Then back corner, then other back corner. Repeat, going up just a little at a time. What causes those 'My jack stand collapsed and killed my french poodle!' videos is that people use cast aluminum stands, then crank one side WAY up, then go to the other and do the same thing. The second side is straight - the first side is now cocked at an angle. So, the upright bar bends, and then BOOM.

The other way is to have two jacks, and two people. Both of you lift the car at the same time, then set the stands in place, and lower down.

I would REALLY like a screw jack car lift (scissor style, just like what comes with the cars, but BIGGER). One that you can drive on to, then just use a drill or other heavy tool (or just muscle power) to lift the entire car into the air 2 feet. All of the small lifts on the market are either made for motorcycles, or they're pneumatic/motorized/hydraulic - meaning overly complicated, and expensive, for something that's going to sit in a corner most of the year.

[zbyers]

Couple things to add/edit on Bookworm’s response..

1) I do believe the lower bolt/nut on the strut is 24mm
2) Agree 110% with new sway bar links… Just disconnect the lower sway bar link nut and leave the other end attached to the old strut.
a. Easy way to do this is to grab the “joint” of the link tightly with some vice grips. Then just take an impact and/or ratchet to the nut. You are using the vice grips to keep the joint from rotating. When removing and replacing, this makes it easier than having to deal with the corroded hex head.
3) If doing the rear struts, you will need to remove the spare tire, and the little cubbyhole thing in front of it… Those are 12mm bolts, I believe… There are two nuts to the struts underneath these. They are usually gold colored nuts. Those should be 14mm.


I agree with Bookworms time quote… Lowering mine (so removing strut, compressing old spring to disassemble, uncompressing it, compressing the lowering spring, reassembling, and reinstalling, on all four corners probably took me 4 hours… I’ve done this a dozen times so it was pretty quick and straight forward.

If working on a rusty car, spray down the bolts you’re removing now so you can make your life easier.

[thatsthevibe]

Thanks, I bought Monroe quick struts all round and 2 acdelco advantage front stabilizer bar link kits, also a performance rear anti sway bar to improve the handing. I was shocked how much I had to pay for shipping (748$ total cost) and I now don’t have any money for brakes (which I need) and equipment / tools for the job. I’m driving the car 37miles a day to / from work and I have the basic tools needed but not the more advanced ones.

[zbyers]

The job can probably be done with the tools that you have. If you have 1/2" sockets and breaker bar already, but the breaker bar isn't enough oomph, try adding the handle of the jack for leverage. outside of that, everything else should be tools you have in your collection.

I think all I used were:

3/8” Drive
- 10mm socket (used to remove the bolt holding brake hose/ABS wire to the strut tower)
- 12mm socket (strut tower nuts)
- 14mm socket (rear strut nuts/bolts)
- Decent extension to get to the bolt in the wheel well on the back for the rear strut
1/2” Drive
- 14mm (might have used 1/2" drive for that aforementioned bolt)
- 17mm socket for OEM sway bar link; aftermarket may be different size.
o Also used for the bracket caliper mounting bolts on the backside
- 19mm for rear strut nut at the bottom… This might be a 17mm… I can’t remember.
- 21mm socket for wheels
- 22 or 24mm socket (for the big bolt/nut on the strut)
- Breaker bar
- Torque wrench to torque wheels back down.. could use a loaner wrench from a parts store.


- Vice Grips to hold sway bar link socket from spinning. You could use a 17mm wrench and allen/hex key to remove these. As I mentioned, Vice Grips and a socket seem to work much easier for me.
- Hammer—just in case something doesn’t cooperate
- jack and jack stands
- some PB Blaster and/or lubricant to help fight the stuck objects in the way.
- Zip ties/bungee cords to hold up caliper after removing rotor and whatnot


Even the rear sway bar you picked up is held on by just two bolts… I think these are either 17mm or 19mm bolts.

Outside of that, not really much else you need to complete the job. If you were near NW Pennsylvania, I’d say swing by and we can get it done.

[Bookworm]

On your brakes - in a pinch, just get the cheap pads from the local store, and pop them in. They'll work fine for a while - they just don't last as long. It's still better than grinding metal.

That'll work even if the rotor is grooved up; it's better than no brakes, and the pads will mold to the grooves within a couple of days.

[tpollauf]

I was shocked how much I had to pay for shipping (748$ total cost)

Yeah. Too bad they don't have the option of picking up parts in person. Madison Wisconsin can't be that far from you! But here's Rock Auto's explanation on their website: Parts are stocked in multiple locations and all orders are shipped via common carrier. It is not possible to pick up parts in person.

[Bookworm]

They have at least five warehouses. I believe one is in Georgia, and another around Dallas. So, you could get them from all sorts of places.

They do have an option for ganging items together, but you have to figure out 1) how it works, and 2) be willing to take one of multiple versions/brands of an item.

[thatsthevibe]

Something very odd happened today on my way home from work. When I got up to my cruising speed (73mph) the wheel wasn’t shaking at all (which it normally does) then about 10 mi down the road there’s a long, sweeping right turn, after the turn the shaking came right back. I’m a bit worried as I also noticed that the car moves side to side a lot more (at those speeds) than before.

[Bookworm]

Check the strut mounts in the engine compartment, and make sure you didn't shear a bolt.

[thatsthevibe]

Check the strut mounts in the engine compartment, and make sure you didn't shear a bolt.

Strut tower and the top of the mount looks almost new, hardly any dust on it, the bolts up top at least look good. Also I should mention that this car has been extremely lucky over its life and it has no rust after 12 Wisconsin winters, different story on my Silverado and many of the vibes I see around here. I’m fairly confident I don’t have a bad control arm or tie rod from the bumps I hit last weekend as it’s rust free and I’ve driven a lot of miles on it since last weekend.

[Bookworm]

Hmm.

What it sounds like is that somehow, the strut or assembly rotated slightly under the centrifugal force of the long turn. (Rather, the torque of the turned tire against the pavement) It doesn't have to be much - even a 32nd of an inch can make things wobbly.

[vibrologist]

Forgive me if it has been sad before: check inner and outer tie rods, lower ball joints and steering rack mounting bolts. How about the control arm bushings.

[pwyu1969]

I feel your pain. I just rebuilt the front suspension of my 2009 vibe. It’s the new model, but much of it is similar enough.

1. Regarding the shaking. Note the exact conditions. Mine was the CV axel. It would shake under engine load. You really felt it at speeds greater than 50mph. Pedal on, whole front end shook. Pedal off, shaking stopped though Speed was the same. I was told that when the motor is engaged, the ‘play’ in the CV axel is felt. But when coasting, the cv axel just spins and ‘play’ goes away. This was my issue and changing the cv axel fixed my problem. It is not an easy diy fix as it involves ‘pounding’ the axel out to disengage a retaining clip. Transmission fluid will leak out so I needed a pan and cloth to plug hole. Then you have to get the new cv axel splines to line up and make sure retaining clip snaps and seal is made. Lots of YouTube videos. A mechanic friend of mine said he would have checked wheel balance first... so at least I guessed right. Also, bad engine mounts can create shakes and shimmies.

2. Regarding control arms. If there is any rust, don’t touch them unless you absolutely know the bushings are bad. As in have a professional diagnose. I did one side of mine and snapped the bolt head off. The bolt and bushing are the hardest steel on the entire car and it took about $50 of carbide saw blades and colbalt bits to saw and drill the hole out. If all goes well, both bolts on the control arm spin out the job should take 1/2 hour. If you snap one bolt like me, add a couple of hours work and some prayer... if both bolts snap, which my mechanic friend said can happen, ugh, sick to think of it.

I also did the ball joints, struts, and outer tie rod ends. Feel free to ask if you want thoughts on that.

[thatsthevibe]

Yesterday I took the car a family members farm and we were only able to do the front struts. It was quite the fiasco, started with not being able to get the wheels off so he used a rubber mallet over and over until I said we need to get some penetrating grease and jack stands. Then we had to cut the stabilizer end links in half then he took an angle grinder to the bolts that connect to the front sway bar, now my front sway bar has a couple gouges in it and a lot of the black paint is off of it near the connection to the new end links, the amount of angle grinding he did was making me extremely nervous as there were a shower of sparks hitting my wheel wells for a pretty long time. Also he only used a torque wrench for the lower bolt on the struts the rest he said we don’t need it. Also I noticed I am missing both fasteners for the black windshield bezel that has two fasteners by the strut tower bolts, and I have missing ones in the wheel well also. So I’m still a bit nervous about how well this will hold up but it does ride better now just with the new front struts.

[tpollauf]

Regarding the shaking. Note the exact conditions. Mine was the CV axel. It would shake under engine load. You really felt it at speeds greater than 50mph. Pedal on, whole front end shook. Pedal off, shaking stopped though Speed was the same. I was told that when the motor is engaged, the ‘play’ in the CV axel is felt. But when coasting, the cv axel just spins and ‘play’ goes away. This was my issue and changing the cv axel fixed my problem.

My 2004 Vibe GT is now experiencing this exact problem. Under load at 65+ mph you hear/feel wobbling/and or rattling. Immediately upon letting up on the gas you return to flawlessly smooth driving. I'm certain that my CV joints are on their way out. How long before it gets WORSE or till I park the car? Also, I've read horror stories on the differences between shaft lengths for the GT trim Vibes vs all others? Advise, part numbers and brands appreciated. I'll be off three days for Christmas and will repair it then along with other suspension components. Thanks

[zbyers]

My 2004 Vibe GT is now experiencing this exact problem. Under load at 65+ mph you hear/feel wobbling/and or rattling. Immediately upon letting up on the gas you return to flawlessly smooth driving. I'm certain that my CV joints are on their way out. How long before it gets WORSE or till I park the car? Also, I've read horror stories on the differences between shaft lengths for the GT trim Vibes vs all others? Advise, part numbers and brands appreciated. I'll be off three days for Christmas and will repair it then along with other suspension components. Thanks

I just replaced passenger side axle on my '04 GT... I went with a Duralast Gold one as I had it under warranty from the previous car. I have a wobble/shimmy thing at 20-30mph, and then again (a little less) between 50-55 upon acceleration.

I am guessing this new axle is not properly balanced. My old '03 GT was pretty similiar with the axle from there, but I chalked it up to the car having 250k miles and needing all new suspension. I don't think that's the case now.

I'd probably recommend either OEM axles or getting the QRP ones from www.MonkeyWrenchRacing.com.

Drivers side (all 03-08 manual transmission): https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/prod ... trix-left/

Paseengers side (2ZZ/C60): https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/prod ... -06-right/

The passenger side could be a pain in the removed because of the carrier bearing. When installing the new one, add some antiseize to the carrier bearing bracket (or right onto it while the new axle is out). That will help prevent it from being a pain if you need to do it again.

[tpollauf]

Just ordered Pass side CV halfshaft axle from RockAuto (Cardone 665230, lifetime warranty $70.39). A buddy of mine is getting me the drivers side who works at Advance. I'll post the results of this needed repair soon