Can't part with my Vibe

General discussions about the Pontiac Vibe & Toyota Matrix. New members, introduce yourself here!
Post Reply
reydenna
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:06 am

Can't part with my Vibe

Post by reydenna »

My 2004 Vibe has 218,000+ miles on it, and I have been thinking of retiring it. Other than using Mobil1 oil, I have pretty much neglected it and it shows, cosmetically. Other than some underneath stuff (tires, muffler, tailpipes, brakes, rotors, etc.) I have had few issues with it. I added a transmission cooler some years ago and pulled a small camper to Florida and back to WV several times. The starter went out on a trip to Florida, luckily in a friends driveway, and I replaced an o2sensor when the check engine light told me to. Some rubber boot thingies underneath have disintegrated, causing a lot of banging and knocking on rough roads, but my mechanic told me I didn't need to replace them if I didn't mind the noise. The radio display doesn't work and the passenger side window is never rolled down due to a problem inside the door. It's noisy and not very peppy and I'm being seduced by Subaru salesmen with their fancy Foresters. I saw someone on this forum had posted something about 350,000 miles with a tiny oil leak. I know the day will come when I have to say goodbye, but I'm wondering when....
Jbenrod
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:58 am

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Jbenrod »

It sounds like your Vibe has been giving you good service over the years so why not show it some love now and spend a couple of hundred dollars on it; then decide later what you are going to do.

Fix that door window, put in a new aftermarket radio, and get those bushings (my guess) replaced on the bottom side and you may find you don't think you are ready to replace it just yet ?
2005 Base - 220k
Caretaker

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Caretaker »

It is over 15 years old. Time to go to the Subaru dealer and pick out a Forester or Crosstrek. If you are the original owner and have not put any major money into it within the past year, then you should have a BIG smile on your face as you take your $400 for your car and drive home with your new one. Enjoy.
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Bookworm »

Here's what I did, when it came time to replace my 2003 vibe (with a 2007).

Find out what it's likely to cost to bring it up to snuff. New shocks/struts, bushings, tie rods (if necessary), engine mounts, and to drain and fill the transmission three times. Also, cost for replacing the door window motor (or whole assembly). (plus catalytic converter and new tires and brakes, if necessary)

Then, look at the cost of the new car - specifically, what will the payments be.

Divide the estimated repair cost by the monthly cost of the new car. That gives you the number of months you'd have to drive the Vibe to be cost effective to completely service. Your 'gimmie' price is usually in the 4k-5k range. I bought the 2007 Vibe for $4026.00, including TT&L, and it only needed fluids changed when I got it - I'm now coming up on the third year of driving, and third set of tires, which means my 'monthly' cost of ownership is about the same as $130 per month, for a car payment, over 30 months. I don't count the tire cost in there, because that's a consumable.

So, if you buy a 30,000 car, at a flat 8% interest (no compounding), you're looking at financing $32,400, over, say, a five year period. That's $540 per month. That means for me to replace the Vibe by buying a _new_ car, I'd have already paid $410 per month _more_ than I have already, and still have another 30 months to go. The down payment would probably have been as much as I paid for my car, also.

That said, if it's going to cost more than $5k-6k to get the car in good shape to run for another two to three years AND that you'd be comfortable with driving, it's probably time to look for a replacement. For people like me, who do much of the grunt work themselves, it's almost a no-brainer (parts cost less than labor, most of the time). If you pay a shop to do everything for you, what would cost me or zbyers $2,000 might cost you $4,000 or more. Shocks are usually $500 per corner, for example. However, the replacement shocks are usually only about $150 per corner for one that'll last at least four or five years. It just takes a breaker bar, some obscenely large sockets, a 1/2" torque wrench, and 45 minutes of cussing per corner. You can also combine replacing rotors and brakes with replacing the shocks. If you get an honest mechanic, and stack the repairs, they'll charge you for the actual time they spent, and not the 'per job' hourly rate.

So, figure out what you need done, and get a good estimate from a mechanic you think you can trust. (go ahead and pay him for the estimate. Most won't ask for payment, but if you pay them $35 or whatever, they get paid for the time, and they'll usually apply it towards the repairs if you go for it.)

As a counter example - I had a 2000 Ford Windstar with only 166k miles on it. Unfortunately, it had an off-balance crankshaft, which eventually destroyed some motor mounts and blew the main seal. The cost of pulling the engine _alone_, was going to be $2k. _Running_ Ford Windstars, newer than that, are going for less than $3k. So, I decided that we'd look for what my wife would like for a vehicle, rather than another 'just good enough', and we paid too much (really, a decent price), for a 2013 Mazda 5 mini-van with 99k miles, and one dent in the rear hatch. Apparently nobody wanted a car that had a dented Mazda logo, so they had dropped the price another $250 between the time we determined to do a test drive, and when we got there.
Caretaker

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Caretaker »

Here's some new math:

Start with the number 80 (age your kids will take your car away from you since you are a hazard on the road).
Subtract your age.
Take that number and multiply it times the amount of lives you plan on spending on planet earth (so far the worldwide average is one).
Write that number down and paste it on your computer screen so you'll see it every day.
That number is the number of years you have left of freedom to drive yourself wherever you want.
As the years go by and that number you pasted on your computer screen becomes a lie, turn around and reach for your checkbook. If there is money sitting in there earning 0.5% interest, go to your local Subaru store and pick out your new Forester or Crosstrek.
Drive home in your new car and look at the number you pasted on your computer screen. Not only will you feel the new car freedom of driving wherever and whenever you want, but you'll actually think you still have many more years to enjoy the experience even though reality is probably something different.
Last edited by Caretaker on Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by zbyers »

I agree with Bookworm. It really comes down to doing the math. Is fixing it feasible and worthwhile? Will you see a return on the investment? And honestly, do you want to invest in it? Or would you rather something else?

Frankly, I NEED a new car. My '03 GT with nearly 300k on it is rotting underneath, way more than I'm comfortable with. On it, I need all new suspension (tie rods, ball joints, struts), new windshield, gas tank straps, at least $1k into rust repair (it cost my brother $600 for less rust), plus new tires. All said and done, I would need to invest nearly $2000, if not more, into getting her up to snuff again. For that price, I'd rather find another running, inspected Vibe and call it a day. If the rust were the only issue, I'd consider it. I am not one to give up and get rid of a car easily. It's much better to keep something you OWN and know how it runs (and the issues in my case :lol: ) that to just find something new. Plus, the $$$$$$$ over all of the years.

It sounds like yours is probably worthwhile investing into, especially if you have nominal rust on the underbody.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe
andrewclaus
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:38 pm
Location: Golden, CO

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by andrewclaus »

Does a loved one/dependent ever drive the car? If so, reliability trumps all costs. And consider improved safety features in newer cars.

Think of passengers' safety and comfort when you have to deal with a breakdown on the road. Things that go "thump" under the car will eventually break. Those rubber boots serve a long-term purpose.

If you're a miserly, adventurous sort who only drives the old car solo and always with a toolbox (like me), drive the Vibe into the ground and laugh all the way to the bank.
reydenna
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:06 am

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by reydenna »

Thanks, everyone for the good advice. I don't do any mechanical work myself, but have a good, reliable mechanic who will use parts that I buy online, and never try to sell me on something I don't need... one of the many advantages of living in rural WV. I will get an assessment from him as to what is needed now to keep my Vibe safely on the road until at least the end of the year. I think the end of December is supposed to be a good time to buy a new car. I may even squeeze out another road trip to Florida, back roads only.
User avatar
vibrologist
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by vibrologist »

Give in to the sweet seduction and buy a brand spanking new Subaru.
Sell your Vibe to zbyers.
Do the math according to caretaker.

Sorry, bookworm! you just make too much sense.

Honestly, reydenna, reading between the lines I feel that you will not enjoy turning your own wrenches. Maybe you just lack the vocabulary bookworm is suggesting for the replacement of struts.
Vibrologist
'05 Vibe

"It is important to know the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' even if you are neither!"

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43476
Caretaker

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Caretaker »

reydenna wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:33 am I may even squeeze out another road trip to Florida, back roads only.
I'll leave the light on for you. But hurry: 1,000 people a day are moving here. :P
User avatar
joatmon
Posts: 10018
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:19 am
Location: SMC MD

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by joatmon »

I tend to keep cars till they die. Haven't had a car payment since 89.

When my first 03 Vibe developed more problems than I wanted to fix, I traded it on another 03 with half the mileage for a couple grand. Does help to be able to work on them, if I couldn't I would have bought something newer a while ago. It would be nice though to not feel compelled to carry the big tool box all the time, just in case.

Caretaker, you need to take your own advice. For such a subaru advocate, why do you own a pontiac, a hyundai, and a honda? Trade them all in for subies
Image
Caretaker

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Caretaker »

Very close to doing so. Just waiting for the SS checks to start rolling in. Also, there is nothing wrong with my cars. Seems silly to get rid of them as they are not riddled with problems at this time unlike the OP's. As a student of cars, if one of them did poop out, the Forester and Crosstrek would be at the top of my list as new vehicles. I certainly would not have bought a Forester the year I bought my second Vibe, as head gasket issues and longevity issues continued to plague Subaru then (2008). Times change, and you have to keep up with them. After those two Subarus, I would have several Mazdas on my list. I certainly would not have bought a Mazda around 2008 for the very same reasons as not buying a Subaru. Mazdas new and old were contaminated with Ford parts and suffered longevity issues. Times change; now both of these manufacturers are at the top of their game and vehicles like the Mazda 3, 6, and CX5 are not only good new buys, but have a proven record of not breaking your wallet over a 6 year period should one decide to buy used. I shop cars every year, reading countless journals and forums so I am fully prepared as to what my next car will be; never scrambling at the last moment when disaster strikes or a hard decision has to be made. While the OP did not give us his/her financial statement which would always be a final determinating factor whether to repair, buy used or new, their post made it sound like they had the means to buy new and that the choice was fix a whole bunch of things on a 15 year old car, or buy new. Looking at the auto industry today, Subaru is a very rational choice. One I'll be prepared to make when any of my current vehicles suddenly decides to become a money pit.
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Bookworm »

There's a reason why I said "that you'll be comfortable". Some people don't feel right in a car with a bunch of replacement parts. Others just want a box that goes from point A to point B, and as long as it gets them there in the time they want, safely, what does it matter what it looks like, or where the parts came from.

For the OP - it sounds like they like the car, but are becoming uncomfortable about the rattles and bangs. That's absolutely fine, and probably sane. If $2k puts the car back on the road, safely, for a year, that's only $167 a month in "car payment". That will give breathing room to put money aside for a good down payment on a new car without having to worry about getting it _right now_. Or watch for a good used car to come along, like a 2016 Forester instead of a 2020. The calculations still work - assuming buying a car in roughly a year, at a $500 per month payment, that's $333 dollars per month above the 2k repair cost that can be socked away until the right vehicle comes around.

The Mazda 5 we bought? We'd been looking off and on for three to four months. We didn't panic buy it. Mine was _closer_ to a panic buy, but it was because I was getting concerned about the front end, and finally pulled the trigger.
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Bookworm »

zbyers wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:25 am I agree with Bookworm. It really comes down to doing the math. Is fixing it feasible and worthwhile? Will you see a return on the investment? And honestly, do you want to invest in it? Or would you rather something else?

Frankly, I NEED a new car. My '03 GT with nearly 300k on it is rotting underneath, way more than I'm comfortable with. On it, I need all new suspension (tie rods, ball joints, struts), new windshield, gas tank straps, at least $1k into rust repair (it cost my brother $600 for less rust), plus new tires. All said and done, I would need to invest nearly $2000, if not more, into getting her up to snuff again. For that price, I'd rather find another running, inspected Vibe and call it a day. If the rust were the only issue, I'd consider it. I am not one to give up and get rid of a car easily. It's much better to keep something you OWN and know how it runs (and the issues in my case :lol: ) that to just find something new. Plus, the $$$$$$$ over all of the years.

It sounds like yours is probably worthwhile investing into, especially if you have nominal rust on the underbody.
Come make a trip down here with $4k, and pick up an 03 or newer with 120k. Some are salvage title, however. At this point, all the flood cars are pretty much identified, and what's left is southern "salt the road, what's that mean" drivers.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by zbyers »

Bookworm wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:11 am Come make a trip down here with $4k, and pick up an 03 or newer with 120k. Some are salvage title, however. At this point, all the flood cars are pretty much identified, and what's left is southern "salt the road, what's that mean" drivers.
I am tempted to find one elsewhere. There is a nice envy a few hours from me I want to look at one of these days. I've also got my eyes on a TDI Sportwagen 6 speed, crosstrek, frontier, and a variety of toyota's.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe
Bookworm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Can't part with my Vibe

Post by Bookworm »

zbyers wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:29 am
Bookworm wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:11 am Come make a trip down here with $4k, and pick up an 03 or newer with 120k. Some are salvage title, however. At this point, all the flood cars are pretty much identified, and what's left is southern "salt the road, what's that mean" drivers.
I am tempted to find one elsewhere. There is a nice envy a few hours from me I want to look at one of these days. I've also got my eyes on a TDI Sportwagen 6 speed, crosstrek, frontier, and a variety of toyota's.
Sounds good. I've eyeballed getting a Ford Transit Connect.
Post Reply