Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

General discussions about the Pontiac Vibe & Toyota Matrix. New members, introduce yourself here!
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vferdman
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 3:16 am
Location: Western Massachusetts

Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

I am a new member here and do not yet own a Vibe/Matrix. I am actively searching for one, however and may have found a very interesting Vibe candidate. If it works out (I should know in a week or so) I will definitely post about it as I think it is very interesting.

A little background about myself first. I have been working on my own cars since my very first car (1973 Audi Fox) when I was 16 in the early 80's, so I am most definitely a DIY type of car owner. I have owned mostly European cars, never an American car. I have always maintained and repaired my own cars except for certain jobs like exhaust (no welding skills or equipment) or big engine jobs like head gasket replacement. Everything else I have successfully tackled. My longest brand experience was with Volvo. I bought a brand new S70 in 1998 and then added a 1991 240 (totaled in an accident where my wife and kids walked away without a scratch), replaced that with 1993 940 (totaled where my wife and I walked away without a scratch) and replaced that with another 1993 940, which I just recently sold (ending my 21 year Volvo career) with just shy of 200K miles on it (runs and drives great!).

After the S70 Volvo I bought a used 2007 Toyota Prius with 175K miles on it a few years ago and right now it is our only family car (now has 210K miles on it). I am looking to add another car to the stable and after the Prius experience I am kind of sold on Toyota. Hence the Vibe/Matrix search. I really do not like sedans or coupes, I prefer hatchbacks and station wagons. This is why Vibe/Matrix seems like a perfect match. I was going to look for another Prius, but I am wanting to have one "conventional" reliable vehicle in the family. So here I am. I really like manual gearboxes, but my wife does not drive stick, so I am looking for an automatic Vibe/Matrix. I want to avoid AWD for many reasons.

So I am here to learn about the Vibe/Matrix. My son, who is 23 just bought a 2007 Matrix 5 speed and is very happy with it. This is his first "HIS" car. The other ones were the ones he inherited from me (Volvos). So far so good for him and I am very impressed with the car in general and my Prius experience with Toyota has been excellent.

What I would love to know is whether any of the Vibe issues are different from Matrix. I have been informed that HVAC on the Vibe is a bit more problematic than on the Matrix. Is this true? If so, how? They look so similar that it's hard to believe there may be reliability differences. It looks to me that the two cars are only different in some cosmetics and they have been assembled in different plants and by different companies. I have no love at all for GM, so I am very reluctant to buy a GM product. The only reason I am considering the Vibe is because it's essentially a Toyota Corolla. The cosmetics do not make a huge difference to me. I like both cars about the same. I think Matrix has more visibility from the hatch area and I like that, but it's not a deciding factor for me. I am basically looking at both Vibe and Matrix and the first one that fits me with price and condition will be purchased.

Having said that, perhaps there are some advantages to the Vibe over the Matrix or vice versa? So far I have found that Vibe has ABS in more models than the Matrix. ABS is kind of important to me. I like to have all my cars one way or the other. Since my Prius has ABS, I want my second vehicle to also have ABS. From what I've seen so far Matrix lacks ABS in many of the non-AWD, non-XRS models. I want to get the simplest most reliable model with automatic and ABS. Moon roof, premium sound, etc. are gravy, but not a deciding factor.
tpollauf
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by tpollauf »

Welcome to GenVibe. I can't comment too much on what you asked for BUT I can suggest that you disclose your location (or close to anyways) so we may help find you, or know of one available, if you're close to one of us here! You mentioned no "AWD" ? If you're in Florida then I fully understand, but in Minnesota ..... well ????? Thanks and get involved here with us ;)
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

I live in Western Massachusetts. I do not want AWD even though I am in New England. I do not think it's worth having an extra system that only comes in handy a handful of times a year. the rest of the year it just adds weight, complexity and other issues (like: must buy 4 tires when one is damaged) with no benefit whatsoever. I have lived in New England for almost 40 years and have never owned an AWD vehicle.

As I mentioned, I have one candidate (a Vibe) that is extremely interesting. I have made an offer and it was accepted, but the seller is waiting on a title to arrive as she has just took ownership of the car. I will post more details of I do end up buying this car as it is an unusual case. The car itself is a 2007 Vibe, nothing special, but the circumstances of its ownership are, shall we say, rare.

If anyone near me has a good Vibe/Matrix for sale, I am all ears. I am still officially looking.
zbyers
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by zbyers »

Really the only differences between the Vibe and Matrix are the HVAC (different compressor and recirculation gear), radio (05+ only), and the body panels. By default, the Matrix is more reliable as they don't have the HVAC issues the Vibe does, nor do they have issues with the radio bulbs burning out. Otherwise the Vibe is a Matrix, just at GM deprecation.
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

zbyers wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 5:39 am Really the only differences between the Vibe and Matrix are the HVAC (different compressor and recirculation gear), radio (05+ only), and the body panels. By default, the Matrix is more reliable as they don't have the HVAC issues the Vibe does, nor do they have issues with the radio bulbs burning out. Otherwise the Vibe is a Matrix, just at GM deprecation.
Thanks for the reply. It is sad that GM tends to corrode whatever it touches. AC is fairly important to me and every Toyota I have driven, no matter how old has excellent working AC. This GMification of Vibe's HVAC is kind of bad news for me as I am seriously considering a 2007 Vibe right now. The other aspects of the car are very compelling, so I may overlook the GM HVAC. I don't mind the Vibe styling, though I like Matrix a bit better aesthetically. Again, this Vibe candidate is so compelling that I am actually considering purchasing a GM product. The decision is still some days away as the seller has not obtained the title yet. Suffice it to say that the Vibe I am considering is kind of like NOS 2007. It has so few miles on it and its ownership history so rare (one senior gentleman garaged it since 2009 and decided he is not going to drive any more in his 80's) that I am willing to overlook the fact that it's GM and Toyota. This is why I am trying to understand the differences. I trust Toyota, especially Toyota Corolla. I do not Trust GM to build a good car at all.
zbyers
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by zbyers »

Literally, the car is toyota. you're making this out to be something it's not. if the vibes were so problematic, they wouldn't still be in existence and on the road.
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

zbyers wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:37 am Literally, the car is toyota. you're making this out to be something it's not. if the vibes were so problematic, they wouldn't still be in existence and on the road.
I read a few posts on here, I think, about the blower motor being junk compared to Matrix and AC compressor, I assume is not Denso. It's just a bit sad. But I hear you, it's the same car.

This is what is drawing me to this almost unused 2007 Vibe. It has less than 10K miles on it. Yes, this is not a typo. I still have to examine the title and do a bit more verification on the mileage as I can hardly believe this. But according to the seller it's her uncle's car which he bought and soon after decided his driving career is over. Now he is in his 90's and has given the car to his niece to sell. I have checked Carfax and the single owner is confirmed. There are only a handful of service records in the same dealership and that's all she wrote. The car has supposedly been garaged since 2009. The paint looks very good, headlights are clear as crystal and even the inside of the tailpipe is clean. So if I have a chance to buy a 2007 Vibe with less than 10K miles on it, I think I will overlook the GM badge. Last time I drove a car with single digit K-miles on the odo was in 1998 when I bought a new Volvo.
mcbloom
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by mcbloom »

***6/3/19 UPDATE - SOLD***

Hello, vferdman. You're looking to buy a Vibe, and I happen to be selling!

I'm in Indiana, which isn't ideal if you're in Massachusetts. If there's some way we could work this out, please let me know.

The May 22nd listing is on the For Sale/Wanted board, titled "2003 Vibe for Sale." Go there to check it out or follow the link: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=47014

Thanks,
Matt
Last edited by mcbloom on Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vibrologist
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vibrologist »

this almost unused 2007 Vibe. It has less than 10K miles on it.
I am afraid I have to let a few raindrops hit your parade regarding the low mileage. Cars that have been sitting for a long time like this one have their own set of issues. Sitting this long means that the fluids did not circulate and wet the parts that need wetting. I am not worrying about the pistons and bearings but the seals and gaskets. It would not surprise me at all if this car springs leaks once put on the road and going through heat and pressure cycles.

If you do buy this car make sure to immediately replace every fluid in it with the correct Toyota specified stuff. Brake fluid, ATF, engine oil, engine coolant, power steering fluid. I would not trust the tires either. I also expect the battery to conk out soon.

I don't want to poo-poo the idea of buying that car, just dial down your expectations of getting a "practically new" car.
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zbyers
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by zbyers »

I agree with vibrologist. Low mile, old cars can have just as many issues as high mile new cars.
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

Thank you for the warnings about the low mile car. I understand and am duly concerned. The car did have all its fluids changed and a new battery and tires installed before being put on the market. My biggest concern is the AC and all the seals in the system. The oil seals in the engine should probably be okay, but may have dried out. Right now the engine looks like new, of course. Living in New England I am very sensitive to rust and this car has absolutely none. I wonder if there are any oil additives that can be used to make sure the seals don't start failing prematurely. It is really hard to tell, of course as the problems may be latent until 50K miles, say. Something to think about, for sure.

Thanks again for the warnings.
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vibrologist
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vibrologist »

The engine oils that are called "High Mileage" contain an additive that will expand rubber and make the seals seal better. However: once you have put that stuff into the engine you are pretty much bound to stay with it because if you revert to no-High Mileage stuff the additives that soaked into the rubber will be washed out and then you have a real mess at your hands. I would use no high mileage stuff and observe. Once leaks become evident I'd be going to high mileage stuff.
The additives are also available separately. One of them is called Blue Devil Oil stop leak. I do not have experience with that.

Similar, there are refrigerants available with sealing additives. I would not use them until a leak becomes evident, The more of that stuff is in the system the more likely the orifice gets plugged up.

All the best!
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

vibrologist wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 8:03 am The engine oils that are called "High Mileage" contain an additive that will expand rubber and make the seals seal better. However: once you have put that stuff into the engine you are pretty much bound to stay with it because if you revert to no-High Mileage stuff the additives that soaked into the rubber will be washed out and then you have a real mess at your hands. I would use no high mileage stuff and observe. Once leaks become evident I'd be going to high mileage stuff.
The additives are also available separately. One of them is called Blue Devil Oil stop leak. I do not have experience with that.

Similar, there are refrigerants available with sealing additives. I would not use them until a leak becomes evident, The more of that stuff is in the system the more likely the orifice gets plugged up.

All the best!
Thanks! I am using high mileage oil on my Prius because it has 210K miles and using high mileage oil has reduced oil consumption on that car by a factor of two. An engine with under 8K miles, however is a different story. I think wait and see plan is best. It may be that the seals are fine and will remain good for a while. AC blew pretty cold air on a test drive (it was in mid 80's outside), but not what I would call "Toyota cold", which is ice-cold on most Toyotas I have been in with functioning AC.

Now what about the oil itself, should I go synthetic? I have no idea what's in it now, but it's new (as are all other fluids I checked). I would think an engine with this few miles could be switched to synthetic and benefit greatly from it. I also heard horror stories about older engines beginning to leak when switched to synthetic. I am a fan of Mobile 1 full synthetic and that's what I use on my Prius (which I bought with 175K miles already on it). I don't know if conventional oil is inherently more "gunky" and acts as a "leak repair" additive (as well as clogging up the rest of the oil system). If I bought a new car, I would certainly use synthetic in it. I do my own oil changes and so the cost is not that huge an issue.

Well, thanks again. I have not bought the car yet and not 100% sure I will as the title hasn't come through yet. When it does it will be decision time. I feel like it can be a very good car, but also understand that disuse is a problem. Still on a lookout of another candidate, but they are not so easy to find where I am.
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vibrologist »

"Toyota cold", which is ice-cold on most Toyotas I have been in with functioning AC.
It won't get "Toyota cold in a Vibe". I always have to use at least speed two with the fan to get sufficient cooling and on the hottest days even 3 or 4 won't be enough. GM ain't cutting it here.

I have switched to Supertech Full Synthetic from Wal-Mart because it is cheap. Imagine: you can do full synthetic and keep the intervals for conventional oil without a price penalty! I like the fact that full synthetic (FS) has better flow in cold start situations. A car that is used for short trips benefits more from FS than one that is used for long distance travel. Read up on https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
There is a lot of hype about oils. I do what I do and don't blame anyone for what they do as long as they stay with the minimum requirements stipulated by the manufacturer and reasonably well within the appropriate (=severe driving conditions) schedule. FS is just added safety here.
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

Well, I've done it! I bought a car, finally. Not the NOS Vibe, however. The seller of the NOS Vibe is dealing with some title issues and in the meantime I was continuing my search. I came up on a 2006 Matrix Xr automatic with 107K miles in really good shape. Looks like the car spent most of its life in Arizona, which is almost as good as being garaged as far as corrosion issues. The last year and 12K miles were in Massachusetts. I pulled the trigger on it. It was less money than the NOS Vibe, car still in really good shape, it's a Toyota proper (no HVAC issues) and the seller had clean title in hand. The only thing this car is missing is ABS. For the life of me I can not understand why Toyota is stingier with ABS than GM. From what I've seen, most Vibes have ABS, even the more basic models, but Most Matrices do not have ABS (except AWD). I really like to have ABS, but...

I hope I am still allowed to hang out here on the Vibe forum as I am still learning about this car. This is my second Toyota, first being 2007 Prius I bought in 2017 with 175K miles. I have owned many, many brands of cars, mostly European, Honda and Mazda, but never Toyota.

I will get the car insured and registered today and start enjoying it and seeing what, if anything, needs to be done. There are no outstanding issues at all except the dome light fixture appears to be not working. Everything else seems fine. All the fluids are normal, though ATF could probably use refreshing. Time to start learning about this car's maintenance routine. My Prius is surprisingly a very low maintenance car. I sure hope this Matrix is also. Seems like Toyota is more for driving than fixing.

One thing I do want to add is an aux input to the radio, maybe even a bluetooth feature. I am not sure I want to replace the stock radio, but maybe that's not a bad idea. I'll have to look into it.

Thanks to all for the input, it has made a difference in my decision, I think. I was still goig to go through with NOS Vibe, but when this Matrix came along it was that much easier to let go of an idea of a 2007 Vibe with 7K miles on it.
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vibrologist »

I hope I am still allowed to hang out here on the Vibe forum as I am still learning about this car.
Well, that's up to the committee. The committee meets only once a year in the first week of May..... ;)

Congrats! Now you need to post some pictures. We all know how a Vibe looks, but a Matrix????
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vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

I will post some pictures. I am off to get the registration (Friday and the RMV! Wish me luck).

I also carry a Fuelly tag in the signature for my Prius, thinking of doing that with the Matrix. I know it's not going to be close to Prius in fuel economy, but from what I understand the regular non-GT (Xrs in Toyota speak) engine with no AWD should do pretty well on fuel.
vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

As promised, here is a picture of my "new" 2006 Matrix. It has 107K miles and tinted windows. Automatic, FWD.
My new Matrix
My new Matrix
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vibrologist
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vibrologist »

Looks cool, all black!
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Bookworm
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by Bookworm »

Nice car. I'd bet you get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

The one thing I'd do almost immediately is put new shocks on it. They seem to die by 100k. Mine are totally shot; I just haven't invested the money in buying new ones to install yet.
vferdman
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by vferdman »

Thank you, I really do enjoy it. Shocks seem 100% fine. The thing rides like new and handles with aplomb. Are shocks another GM/Toyota discrepancy? Or are they the same on both cars?

The only thing I will need closer to winter is tires. The ones that are on it now are not long for this world and are two different types (rears are different from fronts). I live in New England and winters can be rough here. I've been using Nokian WR tires for years and years and find them to be very good for all year round weather around here. They actually perform very well in snow and real good in the summer as well. They are pricey, though.

Other things I am actively fixing and upgrading.

1. Door checks on the front doors were completely dried out and useless. I took them out, took them apart (that involved a bit of rotary tool magic) and found compressed rubber pieces that were squished in the business dimension of producing pressure onto the strap of the part. I was able to rotate said rubber parts 90 degrees where they were not so squished and re-assembled the metal box (that involved a little more rotary tool, hammer and pliers magic) and obtained a refurbished door check for about 20 minutes work (per side). I also filled the metal box with bearing grease. I think it was filled with white lithium grease before and I really don't like that stuff. It turned hard and crumbly and lost all of its lubricating properties. Good quality bearing grease will not dry up. Anyway, I have some photos of the process and may post it in an appropriate new thread here if there is interest. Apparently the new door checks are at least $40/piece and are so badly designed from what I saw when taking them apart, that I would not pay that much for the new ones. I was a long time Volvo owner and things like doors, hinges, checks, etc. were so much more stout on those cars that I am simply disgusted by how flimsy Toyota door parts are. So I am refurbishing instead of buying new inferior design. I don't expect the new ones to even work all that well at making the door not fly. It's just not designed to do that very well. So my refurbished ones actually made a big difference in the way the doors behave, but still nothing like a Volvo door. But that's due to design, not my repair job.

2. Radio head unit. Mine is the plane-jane one, not a premium system. So, four paper cone speakers (one in each door) and a pretty wimpy head unit without modern features like bluetooth or aux input. To deal with that I ordered the least expensive head unit from Crutchfield to fit this car. It's a JVC something or other. No CD player (no need for one for me), bluetooth music streaming and phone operation (has a microphone that can be mounted remotely), 22 Watts/channel (I think that's better than factory unit), aux input is on the faceplate as is a USB port which can play music from a memory stick. Best part is the buttons are lit up with red just like the stock one and matches all the red lighting. Being sold by Crutchfield it comes with the wiring harness for Matrix as well as the bezel and storage tray under the radio since the new unit single DIN and the stock one is double DIN.

3. Headlights. That is a huge problem for me with most older cars with halogen lighting. I live in the countryside with many unlit country roads. I am in my mid-50s and my night vision, though not bad, is not what it used to be. I need good headlights. It's a fact of life for me. On my Prius I did an HID projector retrofit and am very happy with it. It cost under $150 for the kit and I installed it myself. I may do the same on the Matrix. I have read some threads here about the whole DRL business and I have not yet decided how I am going to approach it. More than likely I will just delete DRL and auto light features and go on with the retrofit. I would like to retain the auto-light feature, but DRLs are not that important to me. I will be studying the technical aspects of this soon.

4. Heated seats. My wife loves them (Volvo owners, remember? Volvos had heated seats since the 80's). I installed them on the Prius. It was not complicated, but took a bit of effort. The results are great. Happy wife - happy life! The kits are inexpensive on Amazon (under $80).

5. Basic new owner maintenance. New air filter for the engine, new air filter for the humans, oil/oil filter change, spark plugs (?) change, ATF (?), look at front brakes and possibly service the slider pins and just have a general look see.

I believe that is all for now.
Caretaker

Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by Caretaker »

Bookworm wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:04 pm The one thing I'd do almost immediately is put new shocks on it. They seem to die by 100k.
I thought the same thing about mine. The shocks have been acting weird as of 110k. However, I have no uneven tire wear (cupping) nor can I "bounce" the front of the car more than one time. Even though they seem a bit loosey-goosey, I'm letting them go until I see wear in my tires.

By the way, not one Vibe/Matrix was seen in my recent drive around the Costa Rican countryside. I guess Central America only gets those odd Chevy cars produced in Mexico and Brazil that we never see here. I did see one of these however: http://www.gwm-global.com/greatwallm4.html
tpollauf
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Re: Looking to buy a Vibe/Matrix

Post by tpollauf »

Nice find ;) And the tint is not too dark. Heated seats are a must up here where we live and as you stated, not too bad to install either. Keep us posted on any mods/repair you perform!
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