The "End" plus a request for help

[ChrisW]

It's been awhile since I posted here but I would still browse now and then. I was hoping to report two milestones later this year for my 2003 Vibe GT. I was closing in on 12 years and 300,000 miles. Unfortunately 3 weeks ago I was in the middle of a multi-car accident and was rear ended by an SUV. Thankfully only minor injuries. However with 294K+ miles (all mine) my Vibe was totaled.

I dropped collision insurance some time ago so I'm having to deal with the other driver's insurance company. They're claiming I'm liable for excess charges for storage at the salvage yard. Also the police accident report is late (3 weeks?) and they won't settle until it's issued. I would like to get suggestions or offers from folks here on what to do with what's left of my Vibe GT. I'm in Collegeville, PA (outside Philadelphia).

Oh and to replace my car I found a base '03 Vibe with 113,000 miles on it.

[sideshowalan]

re: What to do with the car.
-Do you plan on keeping the car or letting the insurance company retain salvage?\
Ask for a settlement value for both scenarios and decide if the $ difference is worth letting them keep it.
If you retain the car and get another 03 Vibe, it would make a nice spare parts car.

Waiting for a police report is normal as they want to determine whether or not you hit the front car first. You can speed things up by calling/going to the police department directly. Police are more willing to directly help those who were actually involved in the accident as opposed to the insurance company.

[Meshami]

Man... so sorry.. and so close to 300k!! Glad you weren't hurt. Hoping you hear something soon.

[Nasmfell]

Let the insurance have the car, take the money, don't get anything else from GM

[lannvouivre]

Glad to hear you found another Vibe, definitely a tough little car. It's unfortunate you have to deal with the insurance. My experience with claims adjusters tells me they are RATS.

[vibrologist]

They're claiming I'm liable for excess charges for storage at the salvage yard. Also the police accident report is late (3 weeks?) and they won't settle until it's issued.

Why should YOU be liable for that?
Consider getting an attorney. At least do some online research on who is liable for what in that situation. As I see it, you did not cause the accident, you are not responsible to write the accident report and you don't have to drag the wreck around either.

Thankfully only minor injuries

I bet they will try to get away without paying for those damages either. One more reason to get an attorney.

[tpollauf]

Let the insurance have the car, take the money, don't get anything else from GM

Good thing he didn't take your advise 12 years ago Another Vibe to replace this one is the way to go! Weren't they a GM car

[vibenvy]

Man, that sucks to hear, especially since the Vibe was so close to 300,000 miles . Glad there weren't any serious injuries though and also glad to hear you'll be getting another Vibe! Be sure and keep us updated on how everything's going and post some pictures of the "new" Vibe when you get it.

Let the insurance have the car, take the money, don't get anything else from GM

Good thing he didn't take your advise 12 years ago Another Vibe to replace this one is the way to go! Weren't they a GM car

I will never understand why this person (Nasmfell) is even a member here when he / she always seems so anti-Vibe ...

[Nasmfell]

Let the insurance have the car, take the money, don't get anything else from GM

Good thing he didn't take your advise 12 years ago Another Vibe to replace this one is the way to go! Weren't they a GM car

Yes they were part GM, Finding a 1st Gen in good shape is getting harder to find, hence the post

[Nasmfell]

Man, that sucks to hear, especially since the Vibe was so close to 300,000 miles . Glad there weren't any serious injuries though and also glad to hear you'll be getting another Vibe! Be sure and keep us updated on how everything's going and post some pictures of the "new" Vibe when you get it.

Let the insurance have the car, take the money, don't get anything else from GM

Good thing he didn't take your advise 12 years ago Another Vibe to replace this one is the way to go! Weren't they a GM car

I will never understand why this person (Nasmfell) is even a member here when he / she always seems so anti-Vibe ...

How is my post anti Vibe?

[lannvouivre]

Yes they were part GM, Finding a 1st Gen in good shape is getting harder to find, hence the post

Not THAT much harder. There are 4 first gens for sale in my area and all are in good shape, and I live in Truckland, so there aren't many hatches to begin with.

[Nasmfell]

Yes they were part GM, Finding a 1st Gen in good shape is getting harder to find, hence the post

Not THAT much harder. There are 4 first gens for sale in my area and all are in good shape, and I live in Truckland, so there aren't many hatches to begin with.

I should have been more clear and said the older Vibes, '03, '04. Of course, not all areas would be like yours

[ChrisW]

I want to thank everyone here for their advice.

Vibe update …
I retieved the GT (Salsa - red) from the salvage yard which cost over $2,000 for towing/storage (about 3 weeks?). I did manage to have it backed into my small townhouse garage after I took plenty of photos. Moved my Yakima roof bars to the base (Abyss - black) Vibe. At this point I'm pretty much moved in to the black Vibe. The main issue with the black Vibe is that the airbag light is on which from reading here on GenVibe is possibly related to the airbag recall or recall service issue. Not worried for now as I have worse problems.

More bad news …
The state police botched the police report which was finally issued a month after the accident. It states correctly that I was hit first in the rear by the SUV but then several pages later claims that I failed to stop for the first two crashed vehicles. As a result of the report the SUV owner's insurance says they're only willing to pay half of the total loss (over $7,000). So now I'm in the process of contesting the report. Oh and the attorney who had been recommended to me also said "no thanks" after seeing the report.

GenVibe is a bright spot for me now. I do appreciate everyones encouragement and will provide more updates when I can.

[trb]

Wow, that is really screwed up! Is there any testimony from the person that you hit about the impact? My daughter was rear ended back in June in my 10 GT and she was pushed into the SUV in front of her. Luckily the SUV driver was sure that he was hit after my daughter was, since she was stopped behind him for a few seconds. Plus it was obvious that there was much more damage to the rear of my car than the front so it was hit at a higher speed in the rear. The airbags did not go off so it was a very low speed impact between her and the car in front of her.

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Good luck on it! But if you do get at least $3,500 from the insurance company, that would be a decent payout for your car. My 03 GT with 210K is worth about that retail. Of course with the money you spent getting it out of impound, that does not leave you much. This is another reason I've been running my cellphone as a dashcam recently. We might just all have to record our driving just to make sure for insurance purposes, like in Russia!

[vibrologist]

It states correctly that I was hit first in the rear by the SUV but then several pages later claims that I failed to stop for the first two crashed vehicles.

Be very specific with the language. This quote is obviously summarized to tell us in a nutshell what the report is saying.

You were hit FIRST from behind by an SUV: how severe was the impact, was the impact the reason you lost control of your vehicle? If you had no control over your vehicle how is it reasonable for YOU to STOP it?
You must insist that the report properly states the sequence of the events in such a manner that "cause and effect" can be deducted.

Look for another lawyer. It is my understanding there are plenty of them.

[trb]

It states correctly that I was hit first in the rear by the SUV but then several pages later claims that I failed to stop for the first two crashed vehicles.

Be very specific with the language. This quote is obviously summarized to tell us in a nutshell what the report is saying.

You were hit FIRST from behind by an SUV: how severe was the impact, was the impact the reason you lost control of your vehicle? If you had no control over your vehicle how is it reasonable for YOU to STOP it?
You must insist that the report properly states the sequence of the events in such a manner that "cause and effect" can be deducted.

Look for another lawyer. It is my understanding there are plenty of them.

I agree. In reading your original sequence of events it sounds to me like there was an accident between the first two cars in front of you, and when you were slamming on your brakes to stop, you were rear ended and pushed into the car in front of you. That is a real iffy situation on determining fault unless you have a witness or testimony from the first two drivers about the sequence of events. They should have had two impacts, not just one. But the insurance of the person that hit you is trying to claim you hit them first, then their client hit you. That would be three impacts on the first two cars.

I would think your insurance would be fighting this to avoid paying out a liability claim to the person you hit, or did they just roll over and pay it? On our claim the person that hit my daughter paid for all the damage to the three vehicles.

[ChrisW]

Time for a long overdue update…

Back in September 2014: one wrecked (rear-ended) ’03 Vibe GT, a police accident report with errors and inconsistencies, and no insurance settlement. Now after close to a year and a half this prolonged ordeal has come to an end.

I never did get to hire professional legal counsel since everywhere I turned, no one would take the case. Probably one reason for this is that I have a Pennsylvania “limited tort” auto insurance policy – and since my injuries were thankfully minor, there was no big incentive for an attorney to get part of an injury award. However one of the lawyers that I contacted gave me some good advice to go to small claims court on my own.

Another piece of advice came from a state police officer who answered one of my many calls to their office. His advice was to keep writing to the state police going progressively higher up the chain of command. Both the advice for small claims court and the chain of command advice proved to be helpful.

By the end of 2014 I had written two letters, one to the state trooper who was at the scene and another to his immediate supervisor. I followed these letters up with phone calls and when I finally was able to speak with the corporal, it was apparent that she was not concerned with report inconsistencies. I spoke to her about being pushed into the highway barrier and she suggested that I steered into it. (Even though the first part of the report stated that impact to the barrier happened after I was struck from behind.)

I didn’t take photos on the day of the accident, but I became confident that my Vibe was the best evidence that I had to support my own testimony about being rear-ended. Because of this I included photos taken at the salvage yard. The more letters I wrote the more photos that I included.
There were two damaged areas in the front of my Vibe, both at the corners. The impact area at the left front fender destroyed that tire and the driver’s side steering linkage. There was less damage on the right front corner where I was pushed into the stopped mini-van in front of me. The first part of the police report described the “harmful events’ in chronological order beginning with being struck in the right rear. Yet the accident diagram showed the middle front of my car in contact with the rear of the mini-van as the SUV approached the accident scene.

So in addition to photos of the damaged areas of my Vibe, I also kept an image of the undamaged grille. The report incorrectly stated that my airbag had deployed so I included an interior photo that showed my steering wheel to be intact.

I wrote more letters beginning in 2015; to a sergeant and then to a lieutenant. The lieutenant actually responded to my letter by phone and arranged for a follow up interview with the trooper who had been on the scene and wrote the report. The interview took place in April 2015 and I thought it went well although I was a little disappointed that it had only been a telephone interview. Still I was hopefully that some supplement to the report would be issued. Knowing how slowly the original report was prepared I waited. Weeks past and I heard nothing more. I left telephone messages and even inquired in person at the police station but it seemed that there was nothing more that I could learn.

By late last summer, I heard from my own insurance company that the first driver to be hit (Nissan Altima driver) was preparing to sue all of the other drivers, including me. So I began to looking into a small claims court appeal. I first had to learn which court had jurisdiction and what it would take to file a claim. The Vibe photos and the police report and my description of report errors and inconsistencies were the core evidence. To that I added my letters to the police (including a time line), expenses and receipts, and information on my limited insurance coverage. I filed for small claims in October and was given a court date for the day after Thanksgiving.

On the appointed day and time, I came to court prepared but the other driver was a "no-show". I learned a few days later that the defendant refused mail delivery on the letter of complaint and that the court date would be rescheduled. The rescheduled date was in January but that also changed once more to February.

With these delays in the court appearance, I thought that I should try once more writing to the state police. I wrote a letter to the captain and included 10 different photos including the crumpled right rear of my car and the damage done to a Nissan Altima that was struck (and totaled) by the SUV after it had hit me. I received another phone call from the same lieutenant who had been instrumental in getting me the short interview months earlier. To my surprise, I learned that there was a supplemental police report had been issued after all. Now it wasn’t much of a supplement, just a description of the interview with a short statement saying that my airbag was not deployed while the report indicated otherwise. It also stated that vehicle positions as represented in the report diagram didn’t necessarily show initial points of impact. But it was one more bit of evidence to take to court with me.

I finally had my day in court. The defendant was represented by an attorney (probably from her insurance company) while I was alone. There was a white-board available to me that I used to recreate my knowledge of what happened that day with my vehicle. From there I backed it up with the photos in my evidence report. (I provided copies of this report to the judge and the defence attorney.) There were some legal objections to some of my evidence such as an early written narrative of my version of the accident. The defendant also took the stand in her own defence which surprised me. I only asked one question in cross examination regarding the Nissan Altima.

Overall it went fairly well, the people were very reasonable to interact with for the most part. But I suspected that I didn’t cover things verbally as well as I did in writing. The judge didn’t announce a decision immediately but said it would come in the mail within a few days.
The outcome was that I won the case and was awarded all damages and court costs. One and a half years later and it’s over. My wrecked Vibe GT is still in my garage (please see the For Sale ads.) and I’m still driving my 2nd 2003 Vibe with now with 147K miles on it (34K are mine since purchase).

[tpollauf]

Chris. First off welcome BACK to GenVibe. Only four posts so you're obviously not very active on this community BUT with what you just went through the past 18 months hopefully positive days are ahead of you and you can get more involved here. Secondly I commend you for NEVER GIVING UP and "beating the system" to where you truly came out ahead. You are proof that if you put your mind to something, put in the time, be patient yet professional and to the point, that you will persist and win Just curious as to the total $$$ that you were compensated for after all this time. In reality there is no limit to what you really should have been compensated for BUT at least you stuck it out so long and won. That's gotta feel real good inside So you got to keep your wrecked Vibe also? Plus damages to cover the replacement vehicle? Reply with a bit more when you have the time. Post pics of BOTH Vibes also when you have time. If I'm ever in the Philly area I'll look you up and buy you a beer. Congrats on finally putting positive closure to this nightmare.

Oh a cheap form of "surveillance" which may have eliminated a lot of this red tape, are the affordable "dash cams" that so many of us are using now. I have one in my work van and already witnessed (and recorded) an accident at a local intersection. For $100 give or take, they are well worth it and will cover your A S S if there was ever to be any finger pointing. Something to consider so that you don't ever go through this again. Tim

[ChrisW]

Hi Tim,

Thanks. The compensation was over $7500 including the court fee. They gave me what I thought was a fair assessment of my Vibe GT at about $4400. The towing/storage was outrageous at $2000. I probably could have gotten some lost time compensation too but I was just all too glad to have it over and done. (In PA, medical expenses get paid separately from my own insurance company.)

I have a long 1+ hour commute for the job and it's a rare day when I don't pass at least one accident on my way to work. So the dash cam is a great idea and one that I'm open to.

I would consider keeping the crashed Vibe but my garage is really too small as it is so I'm going to see if I can find someone to take it off my hands.

BTW, I've been on the forum longer than my post count shows. My original user name was Chris_W but the underscore character didn't work when the format changed a few years ago.

[BenWA]

This time? Get a dash cam and a big memory card for it!

I was at a complete stop and I got rear ended in a Geo Metro and my car was pushed into a pedestrian. Obviously i couldn't avoid it, even if I had seen the guy behind me being unable to stop, I couldn't have moved without running over the pedestrian.

The insurance for the company minivan that rear ended me paid out my minimal medical costs (an ER visit the next day for a stiff neck and an RX copay) as well as fixing the car. They willingly paid $1500 to a body shop to fix a car worth $1500 because they were probably being sued out the wazoo by the pedestrian.

Since I wasn't at fault and it was unavoidable, nothing was lodged against me.

However, I didn't have a dash cam! But now I do. I got a cheap one with a 32GB card. It's not the highest quality but in a case like you had, it would be enough to prove you didn't steer into a barrier.

A video from my dash cam... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HajWboLHGJQ

[vibrologist]

Wow. What a piece of work, Chris! I am glad it worked out for you. I am also very thankful for your sharing of the strategic moves and the outcome. Entering small claims court and using the chain of command at the police are two things I will not forget-----just in case.

[ChrisW]

Normally the insurance company would compensate me and I would surrender the title and car to them. However due to the time that had passed, they just mailed me a check. They could have contested the court decision too, but didn't.

[ImUrOBGYN]

Glad it's over. What an ordeal. I was stressed out just reading the update. Man, do I wish you lived closer so I could grab that poor Vibe. Good luck in getting that taken care of, too. I'm sure it won't last long.

[KRR]

Power to the People! Glad it worked out OK for you!

BenWA - Funny, I saw that dashcam video before - it was included in one of those 'bad drivers' video mashups you see on YT. lol Wish I could remember which one for you...

[BenWA]

BenWA - Funny, I saw that dashcam video before - it was included in one of those 'bad drivers' video mashups you see on YT. lol Wish I could remember which one for you...

Heh, figures.

I've had other somewhat stupid things drivers have done that I don't recall off hand. I should probably go get it.

Oh a pedestrian recently, he was slowly wandering diagonally across a busy intersection. I pressed the brake way ahead of time and blow my horn and he looked at me like *I* was crazy. He wasn't even looking. Drunk or on drugs maybe.